So let’s revisit this conversation with a poll : do you think SKZ, SVT and Dream’s sales are real

a mix of both lol

Same as for all of them, they come from China. Take it as you will, real or not. But that's the source for all these albums sales.

What the hell is dreams?

BTw, i think is unreal. THey are not that popular. They should have lower sales, like Exo.

There was just a post about NMIXX on pann for this same reason.

Their digitals are lacking across the board, but they are close to selling 1 million copies of their new single album.

It does look sketch. Ngl. But people are saying that JYPE is a listed company so they can't commit sajaegi. So, I'm assuming this is also the case for SM.

I do know that NCT, Stray Kids, and SVT have a large and dedicated Chinese fanbase, so I'm not really surprised by the numbers. I know NMIXX also has a decent Chinese fanbase based on their China bar numbers, whether it's enough for these groups to sell the millions they are selling...I don't know.

But, I feel like if 1 company is doing it, then everyone is.

I've decided to just enjoy my faves, stay out of fanwars, and stay in my lane lol.

Edit: For some reason, my mind saw Dream and did not even register the other two were Stray Kids and Seventeen. My mind made those two other NCT units lmao, so I edited my initial post.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Wait how much did nmixx sell I didn’t keep track of that 👀

They are at 900k. They will most likely hit 1 million soon, which seems a little bizarre.

I'm saying this as a fan. My mind can't wrap my head around it, so I'm just going to keep my mouth closed when they hit that number since I'm not trying to add fuel to the NMIXX hate train.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I think they will have higher sales than EXO kpop is a lot bigger now. When they were selling between 2-3 million it felt like ok kpop was growing. But once they started selling over 3 million and now 4 million and 5 million wtf I just couldn’t take the sales seriously

Well, the only sales that matter are the ones that put money in your pocket. Otherwise is just useless info for dumb kids (Or worst, dumb adults ) with self esteem problems

Quote from ISaidISaid

If 5 million is the real sales that means they’re 1/5th if the top group. That would be like say a GG selling 200k when the top sales was 1 million which isn’t so bizarre right. Anyway correspondingly all of K-pop’s sales have gone up

Maybe it really is because collecting kpop albums has become the hobby of a lot of people.

I guess. It's more about figuring out where those sales come from.

Their Korean fanbase is not big. Their Spotify numbers are also not exceptionally great.

China would have to be hard carrying, which is not that difficult to comprehend I suppose.

But, I like playing Devil's Advocate. I hope those numbers are real though.

Quote from ISaidISaid

No they don’t come from China where did you get that? I think only around 2 million comes from China the rest 2-3 million is from the rest of the world.

In the case of SVT it was 2.2 pre orders from China from 4.4 million total pre orders. The numbers were up to 6.2 million now, so over 3 million in China is likely

In the case of SVT

3 million in China

Over 750k in Japan, don't not how much but maybe 900k?

Same numbers in Korea, maybe slightly less

150k in USA, probably the same in Europe. Overall ~350k range in western zone

Maybe a bit over half million on SEA

Total sales range: 5.6-5.8 million

Circle numbers: 6.2 million

Verdict: Believable

Quote from ISaidISaid

No they don’t come from China where did you get that? I think only around 2 million comes from China the rest 2-3 million is from the rest of the world.

Thats....like.....half??

Yes they’re are. Probably the only groups beside BTS and SVT with “real” sales.

Big BGs are expected to sell 2m-4m when big GGs started to pass 800k-1m, no?

It's obviously inflated by gimmicks like for any other active K-pop group right now, but I believe Stray Kids sales are bought by real people.

They are one of the 3 only K-pop that charts globally and consistently for weeks on official album charts of multiple markets from America to Europe to Oceania to Asia. They were the #4 most streamed Korean Act at Sub-Saharan Africa on Spotify in 2022, so they obviously have a big following there. They are the #3 most streamed Korean Act on Anghami, Middle East's biggest streaming plataform, so they also have a big following there.

Leave them alone, Tic!!

Quote from Minazuki

It's obviously inflated by gimmicks like for any other active K-pop group right now, but I believe Stray Kids sales are bought by real people.

They are one of the 3 only K-pop that charts globally and consistently for weeks on official album charts of multiple markets from America to Europe to Oceania to Asia. They were the #4 most streamed Korean Act at Sub-Saharan Africa on Spotify in 2022, so they obviously have a big following there. They are the #3 most streamed Korean Act on Anghami, Middle East's biggest streaming plataform, so they also have a big following there.

Leave them alone, Tic!!

yea true! i also know the IMMENSE popularity they have internationally. like i know more stays than armies and blinks combined (which says a lot) also on yt and stuff istg there ARE so many stays over there. Note: just my experience so it isn't facts

same with armies and carats. i don't think its fake with their HUGE fandom sizes. i see new carats everywhere i go lmfao. i remember once that svt distributed all their albums again in june or smth and ALL of the top 10 sold was them. like in total they got like 600k+sales in a day

here's the thread:

Post

RE: So Seventeen casually sold 630k albums yesterday

[…]

WBK, they don't restock 1 month old albums. NCT is the only artist I remember them mass restocking albums after Kick It, never again though

Icaro_Ribeiro

Jun 27th 2023

not just these three groups, but almost all kpop groups and their sales are just one big lie. how they are pulling major western artist kinda numbers is just beyond me. but we can attribute this to fans buying an absurd number of albums to win fansign raffles, a million versions with another million photocards and other inclusions no one cares about, chinese solo stans one-upping each other to see which bar ends up preordering the most albums… it’s wild. with some groups, i think companies are pulling some strings (those nmixx sales are unbelievable, idc what you guys think) but whatever. i still find it unfathomable that these groups are not only easily out-selling THE bts but also artists like Adele (her 2021 album sold like a little over 5M copies). kpop is still a niche and these album sales make absolutely no sense. it was cute when bts was playing in the 1-2M range and the rest of the girlies were pulling like 200k. Now THAT was believable. Covid hit and suddenly everyone and their mom is a million seller 😭😭😭 no way they’re quadrupling their sales every comeback it’s just so unrealistic

it depends on what you classify as "real"

I mean firstly there's different albums right?

from limited edition signed ones to digipacks no? they all count as one no?

there's also bulk buying which still counts no?

the other question is why single out those groups in particular - sure they have some of the largest sales but also some of the largest fandoms

if one questions the validity of those sales then why doesn't one also question the validity of the sales of literally every other group

I mean aren't hanteo or circle or whatever tracking them so unless there is a fundamental issue with their tracking process then they are legit no?

if the question is real is are the companies behind them possibly inflating numbers - of course there is a possibility but doesn't that call into question every number they put out for ALL of their groups not just SKZ, SVT or NCT no?

like for example lets say that SM is inflating NCT Dreams sales then wouldn't that put into question every other sale from every other group from EXO to SNSD to Aespa etc etc?

Quote from ISaidISaid

I won’t I WONT.

To be honest those digital numbers don’t justify anything for me 😭

I mentioned It just to bring it to light they aren't unknown in these regions within the niche. And since they are listened more by their fandom, most likely there are the people helping buying the albums to an extent. They don't have official album charts like other regions I mentioned.

Bgs have what u call super fans meaning one super fan buys as much albums as 10 regular fan

The sales are real but are highly concentrated to China & Korea & since Chinese sales pass as Korean sales,it seems iffy lol

Albums are cheaper than ever more accessible than ever

15 years ago, the cheapest album was 20 bucks

Now I saw stuff for 4 bucks

Plus people won't even pay for shipping and just dump them out

Overall profit margin for album sales have dropped bc companies are more interested in driving up the numbers rather than how much they make from them.

I don't know about SKZ or Dream because I don't follow them but why are SVT's sales suspicious? They have the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean fandoms/bulk orders to back up their numbers.

Quote from selfmate

it depends on what you classify as "real"

I mean firstly there's different albums right?

from limited edition signed ones to digipacks no? they all count as one no?

there's also bulk buying which still counts no?

the other question is why single out those groups in particular - sure they have some of the largest sales but also some of the largest fandoms

if one questions the validity of those sales then why doesn't one also question the validity of the sales of literally every other group

I mean aren't hanteo or circle or whatever tracking them so unless there is a fundamental issue with their tracking process then they are legit no?

if the question is real is are the companies behind them possibly inflating numbers - of course there is a possibility but doesn't that call into question every number they put out for ALL of their groups not just SKZ, SVT or NCT no?

like for example lets say that SM is inflating NCT Dreams sales then wouldn't that put into question every other sale from every other group from EXO to SNSD to Aespa etc etc?

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You made some points that I think about often. People will question one group in a company and be a fan of a different group in the same company. Once you question one group in the company, then you're opening the flood gates for every group in that company. You can't pick and choose. Either everyone is doing it or no one is.

Quote from Lulu_Key

Albums are cheaper than ever more accessible than ever

15 years ago, the cheapest album was 20 bucks

Now I saw stuff for 4 bucks

Plus people won't even pay for shipping and just dump them out

Overall profit margin for album sales have dropped bc companies are more interested in driving up the numbers rather than how much they make from them.

Display More

Also another great point.

It'd be interesting to see the profit margins broken down, but of course, no company would ever release this information.

If they also show growth in their streams not just in album sales, its understandable, but when only album sales suddenly doubles and all the other metrics just stay the same and shows no sign of growth, its a little suspicious. I really wonder how many album a single person must have bought.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

You made some points that I think about often. People will question one group in a company and be a fan of a different group in the same company. Once you question one group in the company, then you're opening the flood gates for every group in that company. You can't pick and choose. Either everyone is doing it or no one is.

Also another great point.

It'd be interesting to see the profit margins broken down, but of course, no company would ever release this information.

which is why the question is the issue with the tracking orgs - hanteo/circle which then calls into question the entire tracking network/system

or the company themselves which also calls into question literally every artist under them

in terms of lulu's point - if the margins are reduced it hurts the idols themselves even more since I'm pretty sure the production team/other costs get paid out first prior to the artist

Quote from Lulu_Key

Albums are cheaper than ever more accessible than ever

15 years ago, the cheapest album was 20 bucks

Now I saw stuff for 4 bucks

Plus people won't even pay for shipping and just dump them out

Overall profit margin for album sales have dropped bc companies are more interested in driving up the numbers rather than how much they make from them.

Display More

WHAT?!!!! WHERE DO U LIVE!!! GEEZ I CANT IMAGINE THINGS NOT COSTING OVER 50 AUD (35 USD)

Quote from selfmate

which is why the question is the issue with the tracking orgs - hanteo/circle which then calls into question the entire tracking network/system

or the company themselves which also calls into question literally every artist under them

in terms of lulu's point - if the margins are reduced it hurts the idols themselves even more since I'm pretty sure the production team/other costs get paid out first prior to the artist

Might not hurt as much if there are cheaper production costs. Such as producing more digipacks (which can be sold for cheaper) rather than full scale albums.

I'm sure the companies have figured out a way too finagle it. Especially those bigger companies.

I don't think there is any increased distribution. US distributions started in 2017-18 and it has been global since 2019. That's why BTS were selling 4m in 2019 while other groups were barely touching 1m mark. I also don't find it shady if they are making money.

But these numbers are actually unbelievable. Upto 4m was kind of believable but 5m or 6m is like selling as much Japanese artists like AKB48 and Arashi and the like used to sell at their peak when Japan had almost complete physical consumption.

And I know they are doing lots of gimmicks like very low prices and uncountable number of versions but still... I mean these groups are doing like early 00's numbers per year when there were no digitals at all. Their digital are also similar to early 00's rather than 20's when digital consumption is the main form of music consumption. So I don't know...

If they could even hypothetically sell as many tickets as they are selling albums, I would believe it but I doubt these groups combined can do 3m tickets sales too...

Quote from Fearnot-Once

WHAT?!!!! WHERE DO U LIVE!!! GEEZ I CANT IMAGINE THINGS NOT COSTING OVER 50 AUD (35 USD)

I have seen stuff on ktown4u that cost 4USD bc of fan discount or company discount and you can select no shipping.

So the album will essentially get dumped somewhere on the street rather than arriving to your hand.