I feel like we see this same thread/topic every week how much more do we need to hash it
Her international growth really blew up starting in 2019 with Hotel del luna - her instagram followers and youtube subscribers grew like crazy after that drama started airing in SEA/other parts of Asia. Within 1 year she passed Suzy and Taeyeon on social media and still has crazy growth.
She said she wants a pixie cut???? Who is stopping her though I wonder??? She is not some nugu rookie who doesn't have power over her styling preferences technically, after 13 years into the industry
She has to work around acting projects now (she filmed a movie last summer, and she's filming another movie right now).
like i said she was popular and i know good day was her hit song
Good day spent 5 weeks at n1 on Gaon digital
but what i mean is even if she was really popular
it's not until 2014 that she really become this monstruous digital artist
who have songs charting directly at No1 and staying number 1 weeks and weeks
Last Fantasy is the most digitally downloaded album in Gaon history and she's been getting PAKs every year since 2010 (except for 2016 when she didn't release any songs). But I agree that 2014 was the start of her 2nd career peak and it marked a transition in her career where she switched from being a popular trendy idol (2010-2013) to established powerhouse (2014 to now).
I don't remember IU being such a big deal during 2nd gen even if she was popular
i remember seing her on the show heroes when she was still a baby singing marshmallow
I feel like her career really flowerish since 2014
Did you miss "Good Day" in 2010 and "You & I" in 2011? "You &I" is still the most downloaded song in Gaon history, I believe, and "Good Day" was routinely named one of the songs of the decade for the 2010s.
Her entire career is full of irony, but the biggest irony is while other acts sweated and suffered in the overseas when KPop was growing she sat comfortably in Seoul to build her base
She flew to China every weekend for 8 weeks in 2016 to hold fanmeets and mini-concerts lol, how else do you think she managed to build such a robust Chinese fanbase.
"Lilac" has been on the top of the charts for 3 weeks, it accumulated 265 PAKs, is second only to "Celebrity" for hours spent at #1 on Melon for 2021 (and still counting), and IU swept the music shows for the weeks after her comeback, despite only promoting for 1 week. "Lilac" looks like it'll top the monthly charts for Gaon and Melon too. WhyKnock another poor prediction?
"we ride" certified as the next viral hit.
Ah yea they must be talking about the Gaon Album Chart which is physical sales.
Of course it's always possible for soloists to rise with further comebacks and songs but the initial debut hype is pretty important to set the standard for the solo debut and part of that is on SM for not doing more.
She did well tbh, her first peaked at 2 but she does better now. She done well, but she's also improved in consistency and has gained a bigger fanbase, it all takes time.
Not many people start at the top like teayeon, example IU. It took her awhile to Get as big as she is now, it's not impossible for any idol, so long as they're consistent and make good music.
what are you talking about? "I" was number 1 on the charts and one of Taeyeon's best digitally performing songs. If anything, her consistency has been a lot more erratic in the last 2 years (hasn't really had a hit since "four seasons" and even before that there were up and downs like "fine" vs "something new"). Her album sales have also stayed relatively stable over the last 5 years - she sold over 100k for her first mini-album and sold a similar number for her most recent mini album (her full albums sell better by about ~50k).
It took IU 2 years to get big (she debuted Sept 2008 with abysmal digital/physical sales, "Good Day" came out Dec 2010 and that mini sold over 90k) but you can't compare at all because IU didn't start in a group - when she debuted as a solo, she started at 0, with zero recognition, fans, hype, or reputation.
The main problem with Wendy is lack of promotion and hype. Has she been on a single radio or promotional show at all? Did SM just release her album and then peace out?
Also those 3rd Gen groups that I mentioned are up for contract renewals soon (or are already in discussion like Mamamoo) , so those new groups are meant to fill in the hole that the 3rd Gen might leave if contract negotiations don't go the way the companies want to and then disband the group.
I agree with the concept but that means gens should be around 7-8 years apart because a standard kpop contract is 7 years. And that's what we saw with earlier gens.
1st gen - 1998 - 2005/6
2nd gen - 2005/6 - 2012/3
3rd gen - 2012/3 - 2020ish
it makes no sense to say 4th gen started in 2017/2018 because then why did 3rd gen only get 5 years when precious gens got 7-8 years?
IMO 2019/2020 should minimum be start of 4th gen, if there is a 4th gen.
To me, the terms "general public support" and "casual listener" both are used incorrectly by Kpop fans.
So many times i read people saying they stream a song but only consider themselves "casual listeners". I'm like, bruh, if you actively make a choice to put a song on your playlist because you like it, you're not a casual listener, you're a casual fan at least. Casual listeners are people who just listen to radio or let YT algorithms determine their songlist while they're working out at the gym. If you're actively choosing a song to listen to, by definition you aint a neutral listener anymore.
The term general public support is similarly problematic. If you're supporting someone, by definition, you're not a member of the "general public" anymore. You're at the very least a casual fan. Maybe not a hardcore fan that buys all the albums and merch, but STILL a fan nonetheless. Also, to claim that any artist has GP support doesnt really make sense since the GP is ginormous. IU supposedly has widespread GP support but look at her streaming numbers (only 500k UL on Melon, maybe another 500k on Genie, Bugs, Flo etc) and compare them to the general population of Korea (50 million) - shouldnt someone who supposedly has GP support have at least 25M Koreans streaming her songs?
All that said, i've already given up on my arguments and now just use these terms the same way everyone else does lol. It was a losing battle trying to change people's minds.
1. You can be a casual fan of a song but that doesn't mean you're a casual fan of the artist. Just because I put a song from someone on my playlist does not mean I'm interested in listening to their other songs or even listening to their next new release. Or do you not differentiate between the fan of a song vs fan of the artist?
2. You can't compare streaming ULs to general population - it's about sample size. Not all 50 million people in SK use subscription music services. IU has the highest ULs (800k+) of any artist on the biggest streaming service - by your definition, there would be NO celebrities with widespread support. It's like saying just because Yoo Jaesuk's TV show pulls in 4-6% ratings (meaning 4-6% of the general population), then he doesn't have widespread GP support. That's just not true.
But the downfall started from there. I remember the leo doing kind of decent. It had a good start with 700k+ uls(if i am not wrong). And then she bombed. I do hope she rises from this.
And u got a good point about casual listeners. R casual listeners as loyal as stans who'll listen no matter what? No they won't.
Even look at akmu's recent song. They have fans but it still tanked. Again maybe too many casuals?
"Leo" did well but I think it was helped by the Bol4 x Baekhyun collab hype (I remember seeing a lot of news articles about it). imo "Leo" and "Hug" also sounded too similar. She should've chosen a title song that stood out from the pre-release track.
The chart reform badly hurt digital artists that depend more on casual listeners. With the way Melon and Flo work now, it's easy for new songs to fall through the cracks unless there are loyal listeners or the song just pops off. Probably doesn't help that pandemic has made promoting songs on shows/fanmeets/etc harder too.
People don't consider IU fan driven though. Her achievements are not ridiculed like others are.
I think the point of this thread is if acts consistently get some amount of uls than they are fans. It's not just first hours that count. SOME songs of acts are heard outside of their regular fans and thus perform better than their songs perform on a regular basis.
For Twice I think they lost part of the fanbase that streams more and were fickle. And I think their album sales are not growing, but are more stable.
Almost every song/album that IU releases achieves viral-level stats tho in terms of digital sales. So either her fandom is so big that they're able to give her SOTY-level sales with every release, or she also has GP support in addition to large digital listener base.
Going off what was said earlier in the conversation that all national-level hit songs need some kind of non-fan support in addition to fans - so either IU fanbase is that big, or her songs get a lot of non-fan support, or IU is just an anomaly and doesn't rly fit well into this narrative.