the song is a BOP hallelujah
Posts by pchromo4
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Never thought she would ever have a concert in a continent not named Asia.
get ready for her upcoming sold out USA tour
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Fraudulence, as the most fraudulent and fake part of kpop history that failed on keep expanding what 3rd gen built, where companies where trying their utmost best to commit more fraud than the others in order to make their groups reach the top artificially. 6 years since the gen started and no a single girl group has managed to replace twice's crown on japan? Just a pity and hollow page on kpop history.
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NewJeans will struggle in Global Spotify until the next album and potentially beyond.
Global Spotify K-pop is driven by SEA - Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar and Vietnam. At Supernova's peak, SEA pulled in 1M streams (42% of global). The problem with NewJeans is they lost the SEA market. How Sweet only pulled in 300K-400K streams from SEA vs. 1.4M~ with Super Shy and OMG. How Sweet failed to chart at all on Spotify Indonesia daily (with a bar of 140K daily, when peak NewJeans in Indonesia was hitting 450-500K daily). We see this on Youtube Indonesia as well, with How Sweet pulling 1M on their debut week vs. 2.5M for Armageddon, 2.9M for Super Shy, 2.6M for Ditto, and 2M for OMG. While not as drastic as Indonesia, it does appear NewJeans has lost views/streams in the other big 4 SEA countries. The launch of ILLIT, BabyMonster and anti-ADOR rhetoric online in English speaking spaces have damaged NewJeans in SEA. I don't think a JP album has any hope of recovering this.
The other big market is the US, but NewJeans have also 'came back to Earth' from the peak of Super Shy in the US. When Super Shy came out, it was a follow-up to OMG which was insanely viral in the US, especially in K-pop and Asian American spaces (multiple weeks on Youtube US at 1.6M weekly, hovering top 40-50) and led the blow up of K-pop in the US with Blackpink, especially in Asian American circles like Head in the Clouds, Dabin/Porter Robinson EDM and major festival circuits like Lolla/Coachella. The hype was insane with a 4M opening week on Youtube, but fell back down to 1.6M weekly after. Despite this, Super Shy was pulling a peak of 1.1M streams on Daily US Spotify (700K after the first week), which was insane since K-pop normally doesn't pull on Daily US Spotify (Supernova didn't chart a 370K bar, Easy charted with a peak of 540K). How Sweet failed to chart the 370K bar as well, but Youtube US shows the initial hype was on par with OMG (1.6M weekly), there just wasn't enough continued play and How Sweet failed to go viral. The NewJeans US fanbase that supported Super Shy is less 'stan' than 'trendy', and the trend this year is catchy lyrical lines (Espresso, Good Luck Babe) and rap drama which How Sweet failed to deliver.
ADOR however did manage to save NewJeans reputation in South Korea, and they still dominate Melon with a #2 and #3 song, despite a weak rollout, bad press and less trendy music. While NewJeans was able to maintain their position in Korea mostly intact, they lost market share in Japan to the JP groups (Easy by Le Serrafim, Magnetic by ILLIT, Sheesh by BabyMonster), were not able to capitalize on a strong campaign last year in the US to another one this year, and have lost quite a few fans in SEA due to drama and increased competition. I expect Supernatural to compete with Easy and Magnetic but it will be tough without JP members. All eyes will be on the new album, where NewJeans should assert their dominance in South Korea and attempt another viral campaign in the US/SEA to gear up for a world tour, but without US/SEA I expect it will be challenging for NewJeans to hit their Global Spotify peaks again.
Thanks for this analysis, it's very well-written and researched. I wouldn't have thought the Hybe vs Ador mess would affect their SEA market that much (my superficial perception of SEA was that they're more traditionally into Big3 groups and as a result are not mostly Hybe multistans like in the US). Also Hanni is Vietnamese but I get there's potential loaded history there and she identifies more as Australian.
New Jean's strongest market is still SK which imo is the most important bc it's the best launch pad for actual popularity in the US. Much harder to translate a smash Japanese hit into global virality vs what we've seen with many kpop songs. Honestly they really just need a good song and promo for their next proper Korean comeback, and I think they could quickly reclaim a lot of Get Up's glory.
edit: omg not my autocorrect turning hanni into hannibal.... tf
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No, I was just talking Hybe. ADOR did have a strange rollout for this comeback, but that's small potatoes compared to what Hybe have tried to do. When the scandal started, I was team reconcile with Hybe and salvage the situation. Now I want them free from that incompetent company that have failed at the f fundamental principles of proper corporate governance and run a conglomerate and publicly traded company like a playground.
Hybe is to blame for Army hating NewJeans, not ADOR or MHJ.
I'm not trying to say this in a shady way as a BTS fan myself, but I feel like people are placing way too much importance on Armys. Nj's Spotify streams overall are still incredibly strong so I don't think they've alienated that many casual listeners - the last 2 songs just didn't hit. "Right Now" and "Supernatural" actually sound a lot more promising but it's still unclear if they'll actually be promoted in SK.
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Your comprehension is all over the place; my arguments have been literally in the same place the entire time.
Or can you not process multiple things being true at the same time? I would hope a little nuanced thinking wouldn't be such a tough wall to scale.
I don't know how I can simplify and elucidate this any further, but I will try.
Because of the internal sabotage from Hybe, deciding to go public with their audit and begin a disgusting, overwhelming public opinion war with gross media play triggered all the Hybe fandoms to go against ADOR and NewJeans. Part of that media play involved dragging in BTS unnecessarily, and ifans till this very day believe it was MHJ who name dropped them and pulled them into the controversy, turning i-Army against NewJeans, to the point where I've seen them send death threats.
ALL of these things are objective negative factors on the success of NewJeans. You have your own company being your worst enemy, and that company has weaponized the largest and most powerful fandom in K-Pop against you.
No other top girl group has ever had to deal with that kind of hostility from within. And yet NewJeans are still dominant in nearly every relevant metric.
Yes, sure, and some people (mostly Tokkis actually) think "How Sweet"s Spotify performance is largely due to the promotional roll out, which to me has about as much credence as the theory of mass boycott. Hence when you said "by their own company" that to me also means Ador's weird rollout. Hope that helps.
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This is textbook bad faith argumentation from you, and I expected better based on our exchanges so far. Projection is something we'll leave for a movie theater, because that's not happening here.
I gave you the original context in the fact that people challenged me repeatedly on NewJean's status based exclusively on their performance on Spotify, disregarding all other metrics, so my logical response is to then point to the fact they're still the most streamed girl group on Spotify in all of K-Pop.
That matters.
And they did so despite the boycotts, which obviously affected the streams of their newer songs.
Don't worry, I don't need you to tell me how I can or can't respond to what happens on the charts. If anyone has the right to gatekeep, it's me, not you. Plus I have literally never doomposted about How Sweet or Bubblegum. If not for aespa having the viral hit of their literal careers, who would be sitting at #1 and #2 on every chart just like they have every other comeback? Who is the top ranked artist on MelOn? Who is the top ranked artist on YT South Korea? Who is the top ranked artist on Circle's digital index?
Exactly.
Your arguments are all over the place. First you said mass boycott. Then you say company sabotage. When I try to point out that includes a confusing promotional rollout which is decided by Ador, you gave me a giant Hybe rant putting words in my mouth that I've never said in this thread. That's textbook bad faith. What exactly triggered you? That I mentioned Ador along with Hybe?
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ADOR has navigated NewJeans to status of top group of their generation in record time, and if the group disbanded today, they would be remembered as one of the most impactful, dominant girl groups in the history of the industry.
Hybe, on the other hand, pushed harmful media play against the members, their parents and their company. They tried to frame innocent comments between members as intentional shade towards ILLIT. They publicized how much money NewJeans earned to turn the public against them when they were still trying to push the 50/50 narrative. They claimed to have the girls' best interests in mind, even though they lied to their parents and continued to greenlight articles that proved the exact opposite. And when they had an opportunity to alleviate the concerns of the parents, they floated out talk of a 1.5 year hiatus.
And most recently, Hybe gave the okay for a disgusting video that was more about proving NewJeans plagiarism than it was about proving ILLIT isn't. And that's not counting the shady business with the brand deals, such as Hybe trying to take Apple from NewJeans but Apple telling them to piss off because they wanted NewJeans, as well as BSH treating them like shit.
We will not absolve Hybe of their shitty behavior by resorting to whataboutism with ADOR.
Hybe made this mess public with garbage, inconclusive evidence, lost the injunction trial and perhaps irreparably harmed their reputation while damaging their own girl groups.
ADOR are saints compared to them.
I was addressing your allegation that NJ's Spotify performance was due to multistan boycott, which was due to MHJ's words (you even specified that in your analogy when you talked about Aespa by saying "What if Aespa's creative director turned all of the other SM fandoms against them" etc etc), hence why I was confused what the multistan boycott had to do with potential Hybe sabotage. You have a weird habit of projecting on other people in conversation, so I will even go a step further and ask you Y/N questions so there's no confusion.
1. Was NJ's Spotify performance for "How Sweet" and "Bubblegum" impacted by other Hybe group stans? Y/N
2. Are Hybe group stans upset at things MHJ said or did? Y/N
3. Has the Ador rollout for "Right Now" and "Supernatural" so far been confusing for fans and casuals alike? Y/N
Don't worry, I don't need you to make any moral statement about MHJ bc I don't actually care about your opinion on her unlike your obsession with other people's opinions on her. If you are completely happy with how Ador handles NJ, please do not come back a few weeks from now and claim any performance was due to confusing promotional rollout like some other Tokkis have done for "How Sweet".
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So NewJeans can lose a ton of casual listeners, suffer from all other Hybe fandoms boycotting them, become the most hated girl group of the biggest fandom in K-Pop in Armys, and they're STILL the most streamed girl group on the platform.
People think it's a gotcha moment, when all it does is prove that there is indeed a gap. A massive one still.
I've never said the other groups are not super popular. It's just that NewJeans is beyond that and on a historic speed run through K-Pop milestones the likes of which we've never seen.
So far, their biggest obstacle has been their OWN COMPANY.
Tbh by "their own company" I hope you're including Ador with that. Putting aside my skepticism that their Spotify numbers is due to multistan boycott (most streamed girl group on the platform is the opposite of "mass boycott"), you've said yourself it's MHJ's words that made those fandoms turn on them. Sure you can say Hybe started this whole mess, but considering MHJ's behavior and also the strange promotional rollout (which even Tokki's are criticizing), yes there is some questionable management going on even from Ador and for better or worse it seems like MHJ is staying. Hence why I will wait to judge how their next Korean comeback is handled and performed.
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I don't think describing this real life corporate drama as a narrative is doing justice to the scale of this conflict. This was a literal legal war, and if MHJ hasn't won her injunction at the end of last month, we're not sure when we would've ever seen NewJeans again and what they would even look or sound like.
And just when we thought things were quieting down, Belift released that laughably bad video outright attack NewJeans and accusing them of plagiarism, not to mention that problematic like about them fulfilling adult's nostalgic fantasies.
This kind petty PUBLIC war within a company is literally unheard of in an industry where image is everything.
You absolutely cannot exclude the context of this war and its aftermath when discussing any of the Hybe girl groups. They were all affected.
ADOR is using people. Source shut down the comments section on all of LSF's social media. And Belift is threatening legal action on the comments section of their trash video.
The fact NewJeans is surviving this absolute shit show is testament to the strength of their brand and how much the public loves them.
Honestly I feel like NJ's brand has actually risen and grown stronger in SK, and it's very different than what's happening to LSFM and Illit. Even you just the week of NJ's release expected them to break UL records and soar to the top, considering the way their YT numbers looked the week following MHJ's press conference. Someone else's narrative might be that NJ is riding the biggest korean publicity wave of their career thus far so the fact they still can't put their song #1 on Melon shows the limitations of their dominance. See what I mean by narrative now? I just care about song quality and song performance.
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Last year they weren't being sabotaged by their own parent label.
Do we really think ANY other group could not only survive but still find a way to thrive when their OWN LABEL is out to crush their momentum and threatening to shelve them indefinitely, while debuting a group with significant concept overlap designed to cannibalize your market share?
I get why that narrative is important to you as a Tokki, but honestly I'm just more interested in what music they release. Plenty of great groups have fallen to company politics, I certainly hope NJ isn't one of them. Like I said, I think NJ's next proper Korean comeback will be critical in showing their trajectory and I hope the company mess is also wrapped up by that point.
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Even if I allow that as a valid counterargument, it is undeniably a logic fallacy to look at one or two songs underperforming and draw conclusions about the overall popularity of the group, while ignoring the fact the group in question is the most streamed girl group on the entire platform in both the U.S. and Korea, while being the top artist on Circle and YT AND being the top artist in Japan.
How does that get outweighed by How Sweet or Bubblegum not peaking as high on Spotify? And that's if we ignore how both songs hit over 300k ULs in Korea, something only NewJeans has done amongst ALL artists, and had a higher debut than other girl group song.
If there was any truth to the flop narrative, a girl group would at least be chasing them down in any of these metrics, but nobody is remotely close.
NewJeans at their worst is still better than everyone else's best. That's called a gap.
Yes, that's why they're still the gen leader. The public has the most trust in their releases, as evidenced by their high first 24H ULs. Therefore I think their next proper Korean release will be extremely important because it'll give a better sense of trajectory. But that's not something I would've thought to say last summer when they were rounding off one of the strongest years in kpop history.
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Let me illustrate why the dialogue is absurd. Or least make an attempt to illustrate.
If aespa's creative director said something that pissed off all the SM group fandoms, who then called for a boycott of their upcoming album, and said album saw a big drop on streaming platforms, would it make sense for people to look at the results and say "See? The numbers behind Next Level and Drama were fraudulent and inflated!"
IDK I'm also skeptical that "How Sweet" and "Bubble Gum" underperformance on Spotify is due to Hybe stan boycott when streams for their older songs weren't impacted. I think the songs just didn't hit this time, which is fine. Digital charting, especially internationally, is very driven by song popularity vs artist popularity.
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There're several reasons why this comeback could be doing worse, so to focus on it doesn't make too much sense imo.
Even if this comeback was a massive flop, their old discography is getting as many streams as the rest of groups with newer releases, that's something to take into account.
tbh this is actually why I have a lot of doubt that the lower streams for "How Sweet" and "Bubblegum" are due to Hybe/multi stan boycott - the rest of their discography are still getting strong streams so it doesn't make sense. I think the songs just didn't hit this time, which is normal for any artist.
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Do you not understand why the least successful NewJeans comeback, which was significantly impacted by EXTREME circumstances, such as a huge chunk of casual listeners boycotting them, not to mention their future activities as a group being enshrouded in mystery, being about as successful as the BEST comebacks from their peers, while they still continue to dominate Spotify, Circle and Japan, makes them by far the most dominant group in the game? That is the actual nail head, and I hit it a long time ago.
Yes, it's why I still consider NJ the gen leader regardless of Supernova's KR and int'l performance. Like you've said, one viral song isn't enough to establish anything, and that's also something I've seen from kpop time and time again. But it shows that it is possible to bring them back to the pack if the trend continues (a big if, of course) whereas after "Super Shy" it seemed almost impossible. Kpop fans are just smelling blood in the water whereas before it was pristine.
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Also this last comeback is definitely their less succesful one in terms of international numbers, the rollout was awful and the situation is well known by everybody, but even in that situation, the numbers are pretty similar to most of the succesful comebacks of the rest of the 4th gen groups, the fact that people try to act like if this is some turning point situation pretty much explaing how high they've set the bar.
You've hit the nail on the head - I'm actually surprised Yama also agreed with the post, maybe he really is unaware of what other people are arguing? Most people take issue with the perception that NJ is so far ahead of the pack that they've lapped their competition (direct words lol). How can that be true if their current comeback is similar to a successful comeback of the rest of their peers? Unless the assumption is that because NJ has achieved so much in their first year (from "Attention"/"Hype Boy" up to "Super Shy" - and yes, even their current "cumulative" stats are heavily relying on their 2022-2023 releases), then any future underperformance is irrelevant to how people choose to evaluate them vs their peers.
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I didn't mean that Twice did it before New Jeans, nor do I think it matters. I mean people currently overlook the Billboard #1 because BP and Twice have also achieved Billboard #1 before so they don't see it as an achievement worthy of lapping the pack. And I explained part of the shine from that Billboard #1 was taken away by their underperformance in U.S. markets for "How Sweet" - so to some people, that describes a decline. But tbh you're right that U.S. physical sales are not the same as digital charting so I'm personally not discounting that yet. As to all the other achievements (demand in Japan, U.S., and SK) - based on those indicators, they should smash their first tour, and I hope MHJ doesn't hold back on the venues. It's hard being patient, but let's celebrate those concert achievements when they are actually there.
Anyway, I'm bored with this topic. You should've caught me sooner pchromo4 . You at least made some coherent, cogent arguments that warrant a response, but I'm not going to entertain this thread any longer. It's past its expiration date and I'm too busy cooking up other, more relevant threads now.
I didn't want to engage but seeing you talk in endless circles was the final bait.
