Why is spotify (& Apple music and similar charts to a lesser extent) given that much importance?

By international kpop fans.

It seems like the new drag for many kpop groups but I just don't see why is a chart where you can't make any big amount of money held in such a high regard?

Don't get me wrong, I don't use it but I know tons of ppl do and it's kinda cool to see artist breaking records there and it does give an accurate representation of what's trendy rn.

But I do have a problem when it's used as argument to imply a group or company (you all know which one) is faking sales and mediAplaYinG.

According to some ppl, if you have low (in comparison to other acts) Spotify streams that means you can't be a real million seller or be anything else than a fraud product of mediaplay and chinese bots.

You can't grow a fandom without Spotify or Apple music they say.

All other metrics don't matter.

Recently nct dream got some comments like that because glimo did worse than hot sauce on international streaming charts. So that must mean they are SM frauds. Nothing else matters?

But at the same time they are performing at sold out venues full of their fans, debuted for first time in bb200, sold their best numbers ever on oricon, performed in Germany where they were the act w most fans, surpassed hot sauce longevity on korean charts, got a couple of international cfs, grow their engagement on social media by a lot, etc. All of that shows how big their fanbase became since last year and there isn't even that much difference in physical sales (both HS and GM sit with around 2.1M copies sold) but people are still speculating they faked sales because streaming didn't went as well?

Yeah it must mean they lost casuals and ifans don't stream that much but how can that erase everything else where they grew? A fandom that can get a solo statiton and an OST to chart like this on first hour isn't big?

Why isn't their massive and growing korean fanbase taken into account when it comes to their physical count?

Other bgs can't chart for a single day on melon daily but sell millions, that's fine bc they got a international fandom that streams. Dream can chart for around 2 months on melon daily and get 1M ULs and they sell millions but that's bad because the Spotify streams weren't big? I don't get that logic, considering kfans have the easiest access to albums and they are one of the biggest buyers,so having a massive kfanbase easily explains why you can sell tons of albums while not doing as well on international streams.

Like LYW didn't manage to sell more than a million albums thanks only to korean people... Do his low Spotify streams mean he's faking sale too?

This was meant to be a response thread to anons but I think it fits better in this section since it isn't only anons thinking like that and I would live to see other opinions. I don't think this controversy has any other explanation but if you are part of the conspiracy you are free to share your opinion.

And this isn't only about a group. The same applies not only to dream but all other groups facing the same accusations.

Summary for ppl who don't read: why are physical sales of million sellers doubted just because they didn't get high streaming numbers on international platforms when it's proved a massive kfanbase can get you numbers as high as 1m+ of sales and there's also a big fanbase on countries like Japan and chinese supporting them?

Quote from ISaidISaid

tbh the fanbase isn’t “massive” but just comparatively bigger than other BGs. If you have a large enough Korean fanbase you should be able to comfortably chart for multiple months (5-6 months or more) on the Gaon digital chart. (I’m not talking about charting #1, but just in general)

Even NCT or 17 who are better than all the other BGs still don’t really have notable Korean impact the gap with their GG counterparts is just enormous. Where as if you see the 4th gen GG Vs BG Spotify say txt or SKZ Vs itzy and ive… it feels more level. At least much more level than Korean charting.

Spotify or international platforms is a much better level playing field so when BGs lack there it’s much more prominent.

But I mean I agree it’s not more important than Korean charting but I can understand why people neglect Korean charting in general for BGs.

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I don't think they are at the massive level bgs like Wanna one or exo were back then, where it managed to get the on top of digital charts, but I think it's big enough to show how they can sell around 1M on first week and more later without there being any doubt of the legitimacy of their sales.

That's my point.

Quote from azhra-0110

I mean those are the biggest streaming services on the planet making up for the most % of on demand users, ofc they are the most relevant (youtube also). Melon and all the korean charts have very little amount of users in comparison.

Not that I'm saying low streams always means fake sales but it really makes you wonder and just shows sales are inflated to no end in kpop

but it's possible to have a mainly korean fanbase and sell millions just like the LYW case, and these groups aren't like the trot singers, they also have a fair amount of fans in the countries that consume albums the most. I think a big domestic fanbase + supportive i-fanbase does explain their million sellers without the need to match the Spotify streams

Quote from ISaidISaid

BTW i want to say once touring stars I think people start talking less about these numbers Kekekek. Just wait till then OP

It has already started for some groups and the talk continues.

127 has a sold out dome tour and two dates at Tokyo dome yet their physical sales still get dragged, I don't think it will change much tbh

Quote from Litto

because it's hard to believe that an artist has reached million seller status through international sales without any kind of consumption on international platforms

Some acts do reach million seller status with domestic fanbase alone tho. International platforms aren't a requirement for that.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I don’t think anyone questions if the sales are fake per say but I think it’s fair to wonder who is buying the albums if the streaming numbers aren’t matching anywhere or how dedicated or inflated the sales if you don’t see corresponding streams.

The answer is pretty simple : this is the streaming era so people will wonder where the streams are.

I think there's a difference between arguing if sales are inflated due to many reasons (versions, price, distribution, etc) and directly saying a company is faking sales for mediaplay and all these million copies are not sold. The later is what I'm adressing with this thread.

I don't think my faves have 1+ million fans in korea buying their albums. Most of the fanbase there is probably buying more than 5 copies each and why it happens is another topic. What I don't agree with is people denying the existence of these fans and the albums they bought.

Quote from azhra-0110

True, they don't need to match to be successful but streams are still the most relevant metric in the streaming era of music.

At the end of the day kpop groups make the most money out of tours and cfs, Spotify streams aren't going to get them more of these than melon charts and physical sales already do.

So it isn't a big deal imo but everyone is free to trust whatever chart they prefer.

Quote from quarkie

I feel like people who joined the kpop community after a certain point have only been in and around the "you must have x amount of spotify streams/youtube views" mindset to the point that they think it's the only metric. Like I've seen it pop up a few times (with 4th gen fandoms especially) where someone will make a case for their 4th gen group being more relevant than a 2nd or 3rd gen group solely because of streams.

And when they are faced with the reality that these 3rd gen acts with low Spotify numbers make more money than their faves with much bigger numbers ...

Quote from ISaidISaid

Tbh no it’s not. Once they’re gonna have 700k or more attendees for their tour that’s when it’ll stop. Nobody is asking where tvxq’s streams are Kek. Streaming is irrelevant in front of touring and everyone knows it.

That's if SM ever gives us the world tour dates, it's been a year since they announced it and only Japan got dates...

I think the tour numbers are definitely interesting and more fun that streams, I was looking at a twitter account that shares the amount of tickets sold and the money they earn, and i was surprised at some kpop groups doing very small venues like 1k-3k capacity. I wonder how much money they made out of that vs physical sales, digitals etc

Quote from vocaldoll

sm group fans are just so weird. Imagine saying spotify should be less important. Ok then be happy with ur faves success and billion album sales and no need to feel that insecure over streaming numbers lmao.

I think you need to read again because I never said which one should be more important, everyone is free to follow whatever chart they want but dragging fans and artists because of it is what I don't agree with, especially when it goes to the conspiracy territory of fake sales and fraud.

And it's very interesting you went to the SM stans part first, says a lot about how you see the issue

Quote from huRRicane8

I agree it doesn't bring that much income, but in case if you go viral or your song gets popular, new people will see it, new opportunities come, you can get famous in countries you never would imagine, plus it brings international charting so it has very big potential, that's why

My girls weeekly went viral there yet it was crickets the next comebacks, maybe that's why I don't think it will impact careers in the long run

Quote from vocaldoll

i'm sorry its just sm fans have the same complaint all the time. Like get over it and just be happy with ur faves' album sales and all that sm privelege.

Do they have the same complaints or are they just defending their faves when others have the same drags all the time?

Quote from sadsavely

Idk man, just looks kinda weird when you sell millions but can't chart regularly on Spotify with the other groups who sell millions.

And it's not like Korean charting is better, can't break past 150k uls and hits #1 weekly Gaon while being unable to get a measly 100M for the year. The difference between NCTs physicals and their charting numbers is just so high and unlike any other groups it's not hard to see why people question their fans. They clearly have fans tho, it's just there is a noticable disparity between their metrics that no other group with big international fanbases has, even SVT who also does weaker on streaming does better then NCT (regularly on Spotify global for comebacks, has multiple songs with 100M index, etc) so why is NCT so different? Whats stopping their fans from streaming their music on the biggest global streaming platform when they are a globally popular group based off sales? The answer is pretty obvious but I know people in this thread won't want to hear it.

Cmiiw but out of all their recent releases, Seventeen and dream both got 1 song with over 100m index points (hot sauce and l&r) while they + 127 also have 1 song with over 90m (kick it, rock with you and glitch mode). So I don't see the big difference and the three groups are double million sellers. Dream also did better last year on Spotify this time it looks like Seventeen took the lead. Then why is one more questioned than the other according to you? Don't be shy nobody here is going to cancel you lol

Quote from killthisfenty

It’s okay to admit your fav lack in some area. Spotify and AM are one of the biggest platform on the world, so I can see why people are bringing it up

What is not okay is to drag and doubt the legitimacy of a group because of it. as much as ifans use Spotify, it isn't the only valid metric in the world

Quote from tetetete

op is addressing this to people who question the legitimacy of the groups physical sales and i think a lot of responses are not seeing that part

Thank you

People think I wrote "Spotify is irrelevant nobody uses it and my faves are better than it" when I recognized how popular it's and that it does show the interest on artists music but i just don't see how it's the end of the world and why it should be compared or "matched" to album sales when these are two different things. One being low doesn't mean the other is fake.