Well think about local acts.
Imagine if a local act flopped here, couldnt chart in Hot 100 or BB 200. But then they become super big in Brazil or Germany or Taiwan or India...would you consider the act to be a hitmaker? Would their international achievements supersede their lack of domestic success?
That's what it's like for Kpop groups that make no impact in Korea but succeed elsewhere like in Indonesia, Japan, China or the US.
wbk that Lisa solo is a flop
kpop fans will call anyone a flop lol
The truth is we don't even know the names of half of the actual flop groups
Of course! US and Japan or other European countries that are part of top 10 biggest music industry are bigger. So if they flop in SK but become bigger even in Japan, they are successful. Let’s put it this way, Some Asians work overseas coz they cant get work with higher salary in their own country. If u went to US or Japan or even in Middle east , earned more, will u still call them poor if they are earning more money simply because they did not earn it from their countries? Of course not! I dont get the obsession with K-charting. Kpop is already their biggest export . If they do well internationally, it’s good actually even if it’s limited to Asia. It benefits SK too. It attracts tourists & most international fans dont just buy the albums but Korean products they used or eat even during vlives. International market is a bigger community than SK. That’s why their Ministry of culture did a thorough study of who has the biggest influence. Just want to flex that Enhypen has the biggest circle among 4th Gen.
Measuring success in SK is an old kpoppies mindset. It’s 2022 now, album sales are peaking and BB placement is their new dream. Kpop is bigger than SK. You can both be called successful if u are bigger in SK or only internationally. Not everyone can be BTS or BP.
Well think about local acts.
Imagine if a local act flopped here, couldnt chart in Hot 100 or BB 200. But then they become super big in Brazil or Germany or Taiwan or India...would you consider the act to be a hitmaker? Would their international achievements supersede their lack of domestic success?
That's what it's like for Kpop groups that make no impact in Korea but succeed elsewhere like in Indonesia, Japan, China or the US.
You chose some of the weirdest group examples for this statement lol, I feel like there's a ton of other groups that would have been a better choice to prove your point.
People should normalize knowing the difference between flopping in Korea and being a flop in general. People should also normalize not using the word "flop" or trying to belittle groups that aren't their favs
they are the third biggest Idol group on melon history (streams)..... and one of the biggest groups in general (fanbase)... and they are pretty popular with GP and variety shows...
Display MoreKpop labels care less and less about Kcharts.
Most money is made outside Korea now.
I bet most Kpop fans don't even know Melon has only 5 million users.
Why are we supposed to care what those specific 5 million Koreans are listening to?
Melon has less than 35% of the marketshare in a country that has only a slightly larger population than the state of California.
If you have a dedicated fanbase that buys albums, merch and concert tickets then you're successful.
The measure of success now is completely different than from even 10 years ago...or even 5.
Melons 30%+ share is way more than whats need to extrapolate what people in korea listens to, thats why its the most relevant chart in korea, even if it "only" has 30% market share
Display MoreAll companies care about is selling out a product. They don't care if it offends or turns off other fanbases. The WON/Dollar spends the same from a Seventeen fan as it does a TREASURE fan.
There have been several Korean companies that have partnered with TREASURE and sold out. And several outside Korea too.
If market research (and they do market research on these things) says that an artist endorsing a product drives X number of sales, then they'll do it.
As far as IU, some companies probably choose her because she's recognizable. But no one is going to buy a product BECAUSE of her. A company's bottom line due to her endorsing something is probably negligible.
I guess someone should tell all those companies paying millions of dollars to s-tier celebrities without big fandoms to stop wasting their money then.
You state companies only care about selling a product yet at the same the biggest brands pay millions of dollars for IU to use her face on their products (she brought in 9m usd in 2021 from cfs alone), for what if not selling products? Of course they hire her because of her recognition and all the data that shows it helps their sales. Otherwise they wouldnt, as you say they are only in it for the money after all.
But IU is a bad example of a gp celebrity to begin with considering her korean fandom and influence dwarfs 99% of the kpop groups fandoms in korea anyway. But its the same for the likes of Suzy, Won bin etc who dont have huge dedicated fandoms. So even if fewer % of the audience that consume the cfs are likely to buy something, in absolute numbers its still dwarfs anything some unknown idol group can bring in.
For smaller companies and products and/or for specific targeted ads for certain demographics, idol groups are perfect, they are also in general much cheaper to contract than suzy, iu, won bin and the likes would be.
These group that you are mentioning aren't flop though. They are actually far from flopping.
kpop fans will call anyone a flop lol
The truth is we don't even know the names of half of the actual flop groups
Exactly!
Yes, Seventeen is huge in Japan, but doesn’t mean they are flops in Korea— in fact, they are a pretty bad example for your thread.
Honestly it’s shocking Seventeen is included in this discussion, considering that they are probably one of the biggest boy groups there is at the moment. Their charting isn’t even as half bad as people would like to believe. Even their English single is surprisingly surviving on melon daily chart since it’s release. Not to mention that their own government has acknowledged them multiple times (ex. The Prime Minister’s Commendation award, the 2nd highest award that could be offered by the government after the Presidential award + the Minister of Culture, Sports, & Tourism award). They even use their variety show Going Seventeen in their Korean embassies around the world to promote tourism.
Also to add that people also love to dismiss “Very Nice,” as if it doesn’t come back every year and is still played to this day and era in restaurants, games, malls, and tv shows. Their streams, sales, and tour will tell you that they do well enough in South Korea, at least better than majority.
Melons 30%+ share is way more than whats need to extrapolate what people in korea listens to, thats why its the most relevant chart in korea, even if it "only" has 30% market share
Not sure of the point that you're trying to make here. But having only 5 million users is not a lot no matter how you slice it.
30% of the streaming market is not good.
But you can't look at that on its own to see how bad things are for Melon. When you consider all the elements.
These things aren't mutually exclusive.
Melon is shrinking in users while services like YouTube Music and Spotify are growing in SK.
Melon is dying and it's no longer a good gauge of what most Koreans are listening to.
Display MoreI guess someone should tell all those companies paying millions of dollars to s-tier celebrities without big fandoms to stop wasting their money then.
You state companies only care about selling a product yet at the same the biggest brands pay millions of dollars for IU to use her face on their products (she brought in 9m usd in 2021 from cfs alone), for what if not selling products? Of course they hire her because of her recognition and all the data that shows it helps their sales. Otherwise they wouldnt, as you say they are only in it for the money after all.
But IU is a bad example of a gp celebrity to begin with considering her korean fandom and influence dwarfs 99% of the kpop groups fandoms in korea anyway. But its the same for the likes of Suzy, Won bin etc who dont have huge dedicated fandoms. So even if fewer % of the audience that consume the cfs are likely to buy something, in absolute numbers its still dwarfs anything some unknown idol group can bring in.
For smaller companies and products and/or for specific targeted ads for certain demographics, idol groups are perfect, they are also in general much cheaper to contract than suzy, iu, won bin and the likes would be.
Some big companies pay for an image or aesthetic they want to convey. Often it's bigger companies that can afford to throw a lot of money at a big celebrity and not reliant on said celebrities for sales.
So no, Samsung or LG is not going to throw money at IU hoping it drives sales. They already have that. It's more about image at that level.
It is impossible to isolate which all factors drive sales.
Still when HiteJinros market share goes from 40%+ to 60%+, in the period coinciding with IU becoming their endorser, then it would be foolish to deny her impact as well.
Same with other cases like Suzy or other products.
Kreatin is correct that playing to fandoms as a market, is every specfic and narrow strategy (unless the fandom is the size of ARMY), but companies would very much rather grow to the level of hiring the S-tier endorsers.
Display MoreKpop labels care less and less about Kcharts.
Most money is made outside Korea now.
I bet most Kpop fans don't even know Melon has only 5 million users.
Why are we supposed to care what those specific 5 million Koreans are listening to?
Melon has less than 35% of the marketshare in a country that has only a slightly larger population than the state of California.
If you have a dedicated fanbase that buys albums, merch and concert tickets then you're successful.
The measure of success now is completely different than from even 10 years ago...or even 5.
5 years ago you used to state digital was what matters because the "world have moved away from physicals" ans therefore physicals were irrelevant, such a YG stan in denial smh
Good thing you finally started to accept the truth
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