Aespa 2021 are not Twice 2016 - the importance of context

in general it doesnt make sense to compare different times, lots have changed

I think Cheer Up being the #1 song on the Gaon/Melon year end charts is a major point that gets missed pretty often in the comparison.

I really don't care if they are or are not, but you can't really compare 2021 groups to 2016 groups

In every way Kpop is different then and now.

Quote from blbrybblgm

I really don't care if they are or are not, but you can't really compare 2021 groups to 2016 groups

In every way Kpop is different then and now.

i'm exhausted by people comparing twice and aespa.

Twice and JYPE rode off a fairly popular survival show and was in cahoots with Mnet, who created and produced that very survival show; so of course they would going to be favored for a number of those awards. Granted, their debut song was one of their better songs of their career (although that is not saying much).

Quote from JustaRuse

Twice and JYPE rode off a fairly popular survival show and was in cahoots with Mnet, who created and produced that very survival show; so of course they would going to be favored for a number of those awards. Granted, their debut song was one of their better songs of their career (although that is not saying much).

Actually Sixteen wasn't that popular and many people considered that Twice's debut was a "flop" for a Big 3 until it slowly started picking up by word of mouth organically

Quote from godkingteshub

Actually Sixteen wasn't that popular and many people considered that Twice's debut was a "flop" for a Big 3 until it slowly started picking up by word of mouth organically

No, it was popular enough to garner a sizeable pre-debut following and with a workable marketability-- not to the extent as those subsequent Produce groups, I admit, but never underestimate the marketing prowess of JYPE with regards to girl groups.

Quote from JustaRuse

No, it was popular enough to garner a sizeable pre-debut following and with a workable marketability-- not to the extent as those subsequent Produce groups, I admit, but never underestimate the marketing prowess of JYPE with regards to girl groups.

The JYPE brand was what actually helped their initial popularity, not Sixteen. That show just solidified their pre-built following . Sixteen and Produce shows are worlds apart

Sixteen helped in terms of creating content, such as videos and fan taken photos, especially of Nayeon, J-line and Tzuyu, which was spread around even after the show ended, and that helped them gain new fans weeks after their debut

Quote from godkingteshub

The JYPE brand was what actually helped their initial popularity, not Sixteen. That show just solidified their pre-built following . Sixteen and Produce shows are worlds apart

Sixteen helped in terms of creating content, such as videos and fan taken photos, especially of Nayeon, J-line and Tzuyu, which was spread around even after the show ended, and that helped them gain new fans weeks after their debut

I don't think you contradicted me.

Quote from JustaRuse

No, it was popular enough to garner a sizeable pre-debut following and with a workable marketability-- not to the extent as those subsequent Produce groups, I admit, but never underestimate the marketing prowess of JYPE with regards to girl groups.

I wouldn't call their predebut fanbase sizeable tbh. Their debut album only sold 8k in their first week and 700 copies on their first day.

Quote from JustaRuse

Twice and JYPE rode off a fairly popular survival show and was in cahoots with Mnet, who created and produced that very survival show; so of course they would going to be favored for a number of those awards. Granted, their debut song was one of their better songs of their career (although that is not saying much).

As if the first half of your comment wasn't nonsense enough, you confirmed that we should disregard anything you say about Twice with your brackets at the end.

Quote from JustaRuse

I don't think you contradicted me.

so? again relative to aespa, Twice didn't have more pre-debut hype. Aespa had the most pre-debut hype I've seen since Blackpink. Reddit posts were at thousands of upvotes and comments before people even knew how many members there would be.

I feel like previous generation fans just need to stop making posts like this all together. It’s not a good look.

First of all the kpop scene is different. No debut group will ever sell as much as previous top group any more. It’s never gonna happen because kpop is at the zenith of physical sales rn.

Why compare things that are not comparable.

Quote from blbrybblgm

I really don't care if they are or are not, but you can't really compare 2021 groups to 2016 groups

In every way Kpop is different then and now.

I would say the difference between 2021 and 2016 are not that the huge, the difference between 2010/2011 and 2016 is much greater.

Quote from sassily

so? again relative to aespa, Twice didn't have more pre-debut hype. Aespa had the most pre-debut hype I've seen since Blackpink. Reddit posts were at thousands of upvotes and comments before people even knew how many members there would be.

Was not Twice hyped by a survival show?

Quote from patrik-k

Was not Twice hyped by a survival show?

people try to use this argument all the time but sixteen flopped lmao

I joined kpop fandoms around the same time and i remember the hype twice had. I used to get jealous because on every award show twice looked like the main character. 🤣 I used to stan some other gg.

Quote from patrik-k

I would say the difference between 2021 and 2016 are not that the huge, the difference between 2010/2011 and 2016 is much greater.

Lol, even groups that have no hit anywhere are selling near or above 1 million nowadays, it's not even close. Spotify also has like more than 5 times the userbase compared to 2016. Kpop in general just had an exponential rise since 2016 mainly bc of bts & then bp

Quote from azhra-0110

Lol, even groups that have no hit anywhere are selling near or above 1 million nowadays, it's not even close. Spotify also has like more than 5 times the userbase compared to 2016. Kpop in general just had an exponential rise since 2016 mainly bc of bts & then bp

Funny thing is that Bigbangs Fantastic Baby was still the most viewed group MV until 2018

Quote from azhra-0110

Lol, even groups that have no hit anywhere are selling near or above 1 million nowadays, it's not even close. Spotify also has like more than 5 times the userbase compared to 2016. Kpop in general just had an exponential rise since 2016 mainly bc of bts & then bp

Yeah, well, it's a super huge difference between 2016 and 2010 when it comes to digitalisation and social media. The leap is not that big from 2016 to 2021

Edit: Okay, the leap is maybe big if you look at the south asian "poorer" contries compared to the west.

Quote from kirishiki

Funny thing is that Bigbangs Fantastic Baby was still the most viewed group MV until 2018

Yeah lol, that mv was really ahead of its time success wise. That year we had bb, twice, bts & bp owning the most watched mv overall for a period of time iirc

Quote from patrik-k

I would say the difference between 2021 and 2016 are not that the huge, the difference between 2010/2011 and 2016 is much greater.

With respect I don't really have meuch to say about this bit since it's not in question here and I have always agreed comparing the likes of TWICE, Red Velvet and Blackpink to groups of that era like Kara, SNSD and T-Ara was also pointless.

But a lot has changed in that time('16-'21) that people take for granted. Back then out of active groups only 2 were coming anywhere near 900 thousand to 1 million consistently and both of those were consider top groups who excelled in almost all areas at the time. Now we have like 4-5 4th generation groups hitting those numbers while, again being respectful, not being considered even close to top tier groups.

In 2016 hitting 100m views was still considered a massive achievement taking groups like TWICE and BTS around 2-4 months to hit that target. Spotify, Apple Music, etc weren't even considered relevant almost at all while today they are considered a primary target for idols.

Regardless of how big the gulf of 2011-2016 was, 2016 and 2021 have enormous differences in the Kpop landscape. The Kpop market is also way way bigger now, while you could argue that the Kpop market in 2016/17 was smaller than say in 2nd generation considering the China soft ban, Japan's market shrinking by about 30% and the fact that the international boom, that 4th gen acts enjoy off the bat now, wasn't in swing yet.

The comparisons will never be accurate, thus so should never even start.

Quote from blbrybblgm

In 2016 hitting 100m views was still considered a massive achievement taking groups like TWICE and BTS around 2-4 months to hit that target. Spotify, Apple Music, etc weren't even considered relevant almost at all while today they are considered a primary target for idols.

I think all depend on in what part of the world you look at. Yes, I also think it's maybe a bigger diffrence if you look at the asian contries where the amount of people owning a phone with fast internet access proably have change a lot from between 2016 to 2021. But I don't think it have changed that much in contries like USA, Sweden or South Korea.

Quote from stan12345

So I'm probably more critical of Twice, their position, direction, management etc than 99% of people on this site (I'm sure other Twice fans will attest to this) but anytime we come around to award season I feel like people downplay Twice. Not just their past but also their present (to an extent they've become desensitised to what they do).

Twice swept basically every GG award in 2016 and some people seem to think Aespa should be doing the same but the fundamental difference people are missing when you compare the two is context. Twice were a massive anomaly at that time with what they were achieving and the numbers they were pulling against every girl group (and 99% of bg's) in multiple metrics, not just their own gen.

Similarities - have taken over SK (though exposure not as big as Twice), have taken over their gen and had a huge song

Differences - context. Even if you want to look at it with a negative stance and say weaker competition, good timing, a smaller kpop market etc, it doesn't matter. Twice's position within the GG scene relatively in 2016 is night and day to Aespa in 2021.

Twice basically sweeped every girl group award in 2016 because:

- They were an anomaly against every other girl group at the time in physicals. This wasn't them selling a bit less than their closest competitor or a tiny bit more, but them selling 3/4 times more against every gg. TCL1 was the 5th best selling album of the year, only behind 2 BTS/EXO albums. The last time a GG sold above 350k was SNSD back in 2011.

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- Only gg in the last 10 years to top the Melon year-end chart (note award shows are done close to calendar years). Before them it was Tara with Roly-Poly in 2011

- Set international records - before BP/BTS it was Twice setting the Youtube records for kpop. Rookie Twice with Cheer Up beat Big Bang's record for quickest to 100m which TT itself then broke

- Broke into Japan - self-explanatory. Laid the path to dominate for the next 5/6 years in Japan with only one group in BTS, the biggest anomaly in kpop ever, challenging and eventually surpassing them there

- Were the most popular group in the country in 2016 and beat every other group on Gallup to showcase that

Long story short - Aespa's achievements are massively impressive, but they won't walk away with every GG award because they don't dominate in multiple metrics against all gg's like Twice did in 2016 (or BP last year) to make it a slam dunk. The 3rd gen still achieve a lot so their competition is not just their own gen (who they do dominate in most facets already).

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hmmmm are you idolizing me? But thanks!

Quote from kmac1

I think Cheer Up being the #1 song on the Gaon/Melon year end charts is a major point that gets missed pretty often in the comparison.

and aespa fans are barking lmao honey you’re just a kitty

Quote from JustaRuse

Twice and JYPE rode off a fairly popular survival show and was in cahoots with Mnet, who created and produced that very survival show; so of course they would going to be favored for a number of those awards. Granted, their debut song was one of their better songs of their career (although that is not saying much).

even so ? They’re still bigger than aespa in their debut year got it?