Nazis, the rising sun, CA, racism etc

came for the tea but stayed for kai's abs

Not just history, just social media guidelines in general.

Sowon should have known better

Knowledge - The Lounge - allkpop forums

Quote from superyeah

This is true, but just to clear things up: Cultural appropriation usually isn't meant to mock anyone. It's meant to make the idol look cooler or whatever they have in mind, but obviously, a lot of people would disagree.

Yeah I think the thing with cultural appropriation in some cases is that they use the culture because they think it makes them look cooler but then they also mock people of that culture

Or people generally mock people of that culture but then when a white person uses some parts of that culture (for example) some people praise them, etc.

Quote from Versatile

inb4

But she user kitler as nickname she knew.

In what world does your common person have every army uniform memorized. Only reason i know it cause i watch many war movies but it would be complete normal mistake to think it was just a military uniform of other origin.

Which they explained they didnt know it was controversial... knowing of Hitler as an evil man does not mean you knew every outfit he wore. Most the images are in black and white anyway...

And it was not a museum it was a cafe.

Display More

yeah it might just be me but I didn't know it was a Nazi uniform lol and I live in America

Quote from keaji

Nice advertising :D You should add some photo or gif, it brings more attention to your post and they would think something fun is happening at this thread :D

its not advertising its directly on point

Rather than me saying the same thing I'd just link to what I'd said previously

Besides I'm not very good at gifs or photos or things...

Maybe you can add one in your reply...

Quote from Versatile

inb4

But she used kitler as nickname she knew.

In what world does your common person have every army uniform memorized. Only reason i know it cause i watch many war movies but it would be complete normal mistake to think it was just a military uniform of other origin.

Which they explained they didnt know it was controversial... knowing of Hitler as an evil man does not mean you knew every outfit he wore. Most the images are in black and white anyway...

And it was not a museum it was a cafe.

But anyway i dont think idols need to learn every origin of every culture you do realize that would take years right? Covering the main issues would be good for idols. But mistakes are bound to happen. We as humans need to be more understanding.

Display More

For me personally, I could accept that she's very ignorant and did not know. The appalling thing was how she handled it all:

1) After receiving backlash, she uploaded the damn picture again

2) No personal apology or admittance of why this is bad

3) Using Hitler jokes, posting things like "I'm removing it because fans are jealous" and "it's making a fuss" are not putting her in a good light

She's a grown woman who needs to take personal responsibility for her actions and acknowledge the hurt done.

Yes, cancel culture is very bad and as humans we do make mistakes: I don't think she hates jews or was intending to support genocide, but in the end she contributed to making light of a very sad passage of human history and needs to make some amends. Twitter trolls and antis will probably use this to the max, and that is sad, but that doesn't mean she should not make the simple effort stated above.

Quote from Vocea

For me personally, I could accept that she's very ignorant and did not know. The appalling thing was how she handled it all:

1) After receiving backlash, she uploaded the damn picture again

2) No personal apology or admittance of why this is bad

3) Using Hitler jokes, posting things like "I'm removing it because fans are jealous" and "it's making a fuss" are not putting her in a good light

wait she uploaded the picture again?

Quote from keaji

Hello everybody! If you are interested in the topic of knowledge, there is really fun and interesting discussion going on, check it out!

Thread

Knowledge

During my time here and on the old forums, its come to my attention that a lot of the issues surrounding certain topics boils down to knowledge. What one knows, what one doesn't know, what one ought to know etc.

So what is knowledge: a quick google search

facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

Why is knowledge so important here - because of the "megathreads" - most of them are on controversial subjects such…

selfmate

Feb 1st 2021

and now that I'm quoting you it there's more of the gifs and pictures to go around

Great work my friend...you can be my gif buddy

Quote from superyeah

We see people travel to other countries and wear the culture's traditional clothing. In the case of tourists who travel to South Korea, we see them wearing hanboks. That's all fine for Koreans, but those of us here in the West would question it and say there's something problematic about it.

Before maybe five years ago, there wasn't nearly as much outrage about cultural appropriation as there is now. Back then, people didn't care or they weren't conditioned by Internet communities to be outraged by it.

The way I see it... It's not all that bad as long as the intentions aren't to mock or degrade.

But for the sake of people who may be offended, idols should learn to be more careful.

Display More

since intentions are so important do we look at the intentions of the person committing the action or the reactions of the person supposedly being affected by the action. Do we look at the intent of the action or the outcome of the action?

Which one is more important or rather which one should we listen to if at all?

A person can have good intentions but create bad outcomes...

If I help an old lady carry her groceries but I accidentally trip and damage her groceries my intentions were good but the old lady still has no groceries.

Quote from selfmate

Do we look at the outcome of the action or the fact that the action happened?

Uh, aren't these two options the same thing? Where is the choice?

Quote from Alex_Murphy

Uh, aren't these two options the same thing? Where is the choice?

Maybe I should have worded it better my bad...

do we look at the intent of the action or the outcome of the action...I think that makes more sense

I've edited my post above as well

Quote from selfmate

Maybe I should have worded it better my bad...

do we look at the intent of the action or the outcome of the action...I think that makes more sense

I've edited my post above as well

Yes, that's what I thought. I think both are to be taken into account. Someone who kills another person, even if by accident, unwillingly, will have to face some kind of consequence ie. a punishement. This punishment will have to be proportional to how irresponsible was the action that led to the victim's death. Killing someone because you threw your TV (or whatever object) through your window, or killing them by making food with an ingredient they are allergic to with no prior knowledge of it? Not the same thing.

And there I'm using as an example a case with an extremely tragic outcome, something irreversible.

I didn't know the uniform was a Nazi one at first until someone pointed out the symbols, I think she made a honest mistake and the kitler nickname is just edgy and weird at worst but I don't think she idolized Hitler honestly SinB should had kept that as a inside joke to save her and Gfriend from drama they should let Sowon apologize but also people are blowing this out of proportion on both sides people defending her acting as if Nazis weren't bad or acting like Koreans never heard of the holocaust and people acting like Sowon is a Neo Nazi Hitler simp it's ridiculous.

Quote from Versatile

inb4

But she used kitler as nickname she knew.

In what world does your common person have every army uniform memorized. Only reason i know it cause i watch many war movies but it would be complete normal mistake to think it was just a military uniform of other origin.

Which they explained they didnt know it was controversial... knowing of Hitler as an evil man does not mean you knew every outfit he wore. Most the images are in black and white anyway...

And it was not a museum it was a cafe.

But anyway i dont think idols need to learn every origin of every culture you do realize that would take years right? Covering the main issues would be good for idols. But mistakes are bound to happen. We as humans need to be more understanding.

Display More

For once in the history of this forum I agree with you Ripia

It was a horrible event but I wonder how many of you know the military outfit of every country of the world from the 1940s

How many of you even know current events such as the symbol of Boko haram, the story behind the Rwanda massacre, the flag of Kurdistan (genocide happening NOW).

AND considering the amount of time most users spend on kpop (East Asian cultural aspect) yet can’t process that China, Japan and Korea are different countries and write stuff like “twice is huge in Japan bc Japan and Korea always been besties” yet think you have any MORAL OR INTELLECTUAL HIGHGROUND is unbelievable mind baffling

Rant incoming. The woke cancel culture has lost its mind.

Racism is all about INTENT. That's it. That's the only thing that matters. Racism is all about the alleged perpetrator's state of mind. It has nothing to do with how you or anyone else may "feel", or how offended you are. Facts dont care about your feelings. Racism is about mocking, disparaging, disrespecting, someone else because of their race. If someone wears dreads as an aesthetic or cause it looks cool or whatever, that aint racism. If they wear dreads as part of a costume to poke fun at black people, that's racism.

Another point, I fans sure like to pick and choose who should be cancelled. Korean idols posing with German soldier mannequins is evil, but American tourists going to visit Japan and waxing poetic about the Imperial Palace Garden is ok??

How about the countless comments i've seen making fun of Korean idols' pronounciation of English. To me, i think it's fine, the intent is obviously not malicious, but imagine if a Korean idol started joking around about Black vernacular English, not in a malicious way but just having fun with it. The cancel culture nutjobs would be on his or her throat in a microsecond. The hypocrisy is disgusting.

To me, this woke cancel culture is a disgusting display of American cultural imperialism and neo colonial entitlement. Ifans think the entire world revolves around their sensibilities and mores and codes of conduct. Newsflash, kiddos, the entire world DONT revolve around your precious feelings. Koreans, Bulgarians, Ecuadorians, Tibetans, and Kenyans have all managed to evolve and build their own cultures and their own ideas of what's right or wrong. Who the hell are you to dictate standards of behavior for people who have grown up in a society completely different from yours?

There are basic human rights that transcend cultures. Right to live freely, to be free from discrimination based on race, sex, gender, etc, to be treated fairly and equally regardless of your skin color. But beyond these, it aint up to IFans to determine what is socially acceptable in Korea for Korean idols. It aint up to you to apply YOUR agendas and values on them. Imagine how these I Fans would feel if other cultures tried to apply THEIR ideas and beliefs on them? lol. They would go APESHIT.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Rant incoming. The woke cancel culture has lost its mind.

Racism is all about INTENT. That's it. That's the only thing that matters. Racism is all about the alleged perpetrator's state of mind. It has nothing to do with how you or anyone else may "feel", or how offended you are. Facts dont care about your feelings. Racism is about mocking, disparaging, disrespecting, someone else because of their race. If someone wears dreads as an aesthetic or cause it looks cool or whatever, that aint racism. If they wear dreads as part of a costume to poke fun at black people, that's racism.

Another point, I fans sure like to pick and choose who should be cancelled. Korean idols posing with German soldier mannequins is evil, but American tourists going to visit Japan and waxing poetic about the Imperial Palace Garden is ok??

How about the countless comments i've seen making fun of Korean idols' pronounciation of English. To me, i think it's fine, the intent is obviously not malicious, but imagine if a Korean idol started joking around about Black vernacular English, not in a malicious way but just having fun with it. The cancel culture nutjobs would be on his or her throat in a microsecond. The hypocrisy is disgusting.

To me, this woke cancel culture is a disgusting display of American cultural imperialism and neo colonial entitlement. Ifans think the entire world revolves around their sensibilities and mores and codes of conduct. Newsflash, kiddos, the entire world DONT revolve around your precious feelings. Koreans, Bulgarians, Ecuadorians, Tibetans, and Kenyans have all managed to evolve and build their own cultures and their own ideas of what's right or wrong. Who the hell are you to dictate standards of behavior for people who have grown up in a society completely different from yours?

There are basic human rights that transcend cultures. Right to live freely, to be free from discrimination based on race, sex, gender, etc, to be treated fairly and equally regardless of your skin color. But beyond these, it aint up to IFans to determine what is socially acceptable in Korea for Korean idols. It aint up to you to apply YOUR agendas and values on them. Imagine how these I Fans would feel if other cultures tried to apply THEIR ideas and beliefs on them? lol. They would go APESHIT.

Display More

Because stereotyping, prejudice and racism against East Asians is not only allowed on this forum it’s actively encouraged.

And since this forum rules by consensus and most EA can’t take it here and leave, very few are here to provide their perspective

I’ve said it before and I’ll say again I think I’m gonna start a support group for EA people on this forum..

Quote from Demon_owl

Because stereotyping, prejudice and racism against East Asians is not only allowed on this forum it’s actively encouraged.

And since this forum rules by consensus and most EA can’t take it here and leave, very few are here to provide their perspective

I’ve said it before and I’ll say again I think I’m gonna start a support group for EA people on this forum..

I don't understand how it follows the comment you quote.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

I don't understand how it follows the comment you quote.

It partly ties with previous discussion on this forum how racism against EA such as long non closed threads like “all Asians have small dicks” or “why are all Koreans ugly” are not considered racist and will rarely get opposed or closed

Quote from keaji

Of course. In my opinion it is not an issue to not know military outfit of a German soldier. It's the general problem of what we put on social media and why. And this is much bigger topic than just the issue that happened recently. Not just with idols, but people in general. I've posted a couple of long posts on this thread, with examples of how are some things are taken out of the context for people to post it on social media, just to be seen as cool, and not even think about what they post. Celebrities do that and all other people do that.

Like i said, some 'stupid selfie' does not make you a bad person, but we all should learn from that. How to be respectful toward others and their cultures.

Wow, this surprises me. I have not been active here for a long time, but i haven't seen anything like that. It makes me wonder why would someone post thread like this. To make themselves feel better? That is really low...

Like i said we all should be more mindful and in particular, we should not stereotype any culture, especially not the one we don't know much about.

I think I notice it more since I’m nea...

Some thoughts - there’s probably several reasons.

1. Being a shallow prejudice person in general who can’t process individuality but prefer to generalize whole continents (on akp mostly Asia as if this continent is one homogeneous country) or groups of people
2. Being far to emotionally invested in kpop
3. Projection. It’s used usually in psychotherapy but can also be applied to cultures. Example: “this country / religion oppressed women” often said by people who don’t want to see that the exact same thing or worse goes on in their own country.
4. Being young and don’t understand complexity. While this is often used as shade I think that if you’re 11 yo then not much can be expected and that’s ok

Quote from Demon_owl

It partly ties with previous discussion on this forum how racism against EA such as long non closed threads like “all Asians have small dicks” or “why are all Koreans ugly” are not considered racist and will rarely get opposed or closed

Wow, these are definitely offensive and should be closed imo. It's pretty obvious people who create threads like these do it to provoke and shock. There is no topic to discuss. Even if they don't think it for real, it's stupid and shameless trolling.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

Wow, these are definitely offensive and should be closed imo. It's pretty obvious people who create threads like these do it to provoke and shock. There is no topic to discuss. Even if they don't think it for real, it's stupid and shameless trolling.

The small dick thread was closed sort of fast after being reported but the discussion and disgusting comments just went on wayyyyy to long before closure.

Regarding ugly Koreans - those threads are very common. The amount of people who (before c-19) would go to Korea and be horrified that common people don’t look like idols (comparison to go Texas thinking all Americans look like 50s Hollywood’s stars) and then write PAGES how ugly real Koreans are with large parts of this forum chiming in and agreeing. People would e.g. write “their ugly skin tone is because they eat too much rice” or “all Koreans do in bed is eat because they’re so ugly”

No one opposed. No one.

Quote from Demon_owl

No one opposed. No one.

To be fair, when something is obvious trolling, it's not a bad choice to ignore it and just let it die rather than adding fuel to its engine. By fighting it, you also add to its visibility. So IF that's the reason why people didn't oppose it (big IF, mind you), I can understand.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

To be fair, when something is obvious trolling, it's not a bad choice to ignore it and just let it die rather than adding fuel to its engine. By fighting it, you also add to its visibility. So IF that's the reason why didn't oppose it (big IF, mind you), I can understand.

Yeah sure. Fair enough

It wasn’t only trolls tho, some of the comments were from some of the bigger normal users

Quote from Alex_Murphy

Yes, that's what I thought. I think both are to be taken into account. Someone who kills another person, even if by accident, unwillingly, will have to face some kind of consequence ie. a punishement. This punishment will have to be proportional to how irresponsible was the action that led to the victim's death. Killing someone because you threw your TV (or whatever object) through your window, or killing them by making food with an ingredient they are allergic to with no prior knowledge of it? Not the same thing.

And there I'm using as an example a case with an extremely tragic outcome, something irreversible.

so we get back to knowledge again :D

maybe its this - we judge a person by the consequences of their actions on how it affects others but we judge the severity of the persons actions by their intentions?

(am I wording it correctly? lol)

Quote from lmfaooo

Yeah I think the thing with cultural appropriation in some cases is that they use the culture because they think it makes them look cooler but then they also mock people of that culture

Or people generally mock people of that culture but then when a white person uses some parts of that culture (for example) some people praise them, etc.

This last part never happens though and I have never understood where the idea came from. See what kind of reaction a white person gets on twitter if they so much as wear braids in their hair. Where is this positive reaction you're talking about coming from?

I’ll post this here as well. I do sympathize that this is a sensitive topic so all those who genuinely feel for this cause - go in and report this page and hundreds similar who’ve been spreading the internet joke of “Kitler” since early 2000

http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigmiaow.pl

8CAFEB73-0909-4E57-9D75-1571F12824FD.jpeg

the argument of "if it’s offensive to them then don’t discuss it and don’t do it” is such bullshit. So now if people tell you that it’s offensive for you to breath, are you gonna stop breathing now?

Not to mention the ignorance of those people themselves.

Like the cases of bulgarian girls attacked and harassed both offline and online for being white and wearing braids from their own culture. And those twitter clowns acting as if they know their culture by using one picture found on google search claiming they were lying based on totally another hairstyle from another region. So now they must reject their own culture just not to offend those people claiming to be woke, are they supposed to just shut up and don’t do it?

Or even muslim kpop stans crying about nct using cupola and dome style architecture in their MV, claiming it belongs to Islamic culture exclusively and those kpop stars are culturally appropriating their culture, while muslim themselves stole it from byzantine christians literally culturally appropriating from them, while colonizing and invading thair lands, killing and enslaving the indigenous people and desecrating their churches to turn into mosque and copying tbeir architecture later for their own buildings (see Hagia Sophia): for them now to claim it exclusively belongs to them. Even had the nerve to say eastern european or gothic architecture were stealing from muslims when they were clearly coming from a long legacy of byzantine architecture and it’s influence in eastern europe especially.

Quote from lmfaooo

wait she uploaded the picture again?

Apparently, she uploaded it on Weverse, got backlash for it, took it down and uploaded it on Insta instead

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Rant incoming. The woke cancel culture has lost its mind.

Racism is all about INTENT. That's it. That's the only thing that matters. Racism is all about the alleged perpetrator's state of mind. It has nothing to do with how you or anyone else may "feel", or how offended you are. Facts dont care about your feelings. Racism is about mocking, disparaging, disrespecting, someone else because of their race. If someone wears dreads as an aesthetic or cause it looks cool or whatever, that aint racism. If they wear dreads as part of a costume to poke fun at black people, that's racism.

Another point, I fans sure like to pick and choose who should be cancelled. Korean idols posing with German soldier mannequins is evil, but American tourists going to visit Japan and waxing poetic about the Imperial Palace Garden is ok??

How about the countless comments i've seen making fun of Korean idols' pronounciation of English. To me, i think it's fine, the intent is obviously not malicious, but imagine if a Korean idol started joking around about Black vernacular English, not in a malicious way but just having fun with it. The cancel culture nutjobs would be on his or her throat in a microsecond. The hypocrisy is disgusting.

To me, this woke cancel culture is a disgusting display of American cultural imperialism and neo colonial entitlement. Ifans think the entire world revolves around their sensibilities and mores and codes of conduct. Newsflash, kiddos, the entire world DONT revolve around your precious feelings. Koreans, Bulgarians, Ecuadorians, Tibetans, and Kenyans have all managed to evolve and build their own cultures and their own ideas of what's right or wrong. Who the hell are you to dictate standards of behavior for people who have grown up in a society completely different from yours?

There are basic human rights that transcend cultures. Right to live freely, to be free from discrimination based on race, sex, gender, etc, to be treated fairly and equally regardless of your skin color. But beyond these, it aint up to IFans to determine what is socially acceptable in Korea for Korean idols. It aint up to you to apply YOUR agendas and values on them. Imagine how these I Fans would feel if other cultures tried to apply THEIR ideas and beliefs on them? lol. They would go APESHIT.

Display More

Hot dammit. I could hug you.

I considered to do an additional posting on this topic, but have now decided not to. I could never have worded it any clearer than you did, it really says it all.

Good job :)

I agree

They study JP and CH culture to avoid local insensitivies

They need to do the same with Europe and America