At least I'm glad he's appreciated in SK.

I really like his rap and funny enough watching the MV it made me feel like I was seeing young Taeyang bc be was without shirt

Quote from SooYoung

Idc about cultural appropriation

I think the tarzan case just highlight how treated differently women and men are for the same problematic things

KIOF did one thing problematic and they have been cancel by the entire ifans community

Tarzan have been doing it for years and nobody care really

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Julie said the n word years ago, apologized then she and the girls and company decided to use black and Latin culture as a joke to decorate her live while also commenting "please don't cancel us" while Tarzzan doesn't look like he is trying to ridicule black culture so yeah, really double standard when Tarzzan is also in the middle of a huge hate train even here in akp.

Quote from monalisalove

Julie said the n word years ago, apologized then she and the girls and company decided to use black and Latin culture as a joke to decorate her live while also commenting "please don't cancel us" while Tarzzan doesn't look like he is trying to ridicule black culture so yeah, really double standard when Tarzzan is also in the middle of a huge hate train even here in akp.

I think it's damaging for this reason.

He also has a very problematic Instagram. I am unsure if he cleaned it up but it included stuff like this. He fully used the ninja emoji, which is obvious where he was going with that

plus there's this whole instagram post. I'm not from America, but it does look like he's mocking black american culture.

Quote from StanGIDLE

I think it's damaging for this reason.

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He also has a very problematic Instagram. I am unsure if he cleaned it up but it included stuff like this. He fully used the ninja emoji, which is obvious where he was going with that

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plus there's this whole instagram post. I'm not from America, but it does look like he's mocking black american culture.

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Hip hop has a way of dressing that inspire rappers of others countries to follow them. I don't think Tarzzan is a bad image at all at it when the ones who stereotype people, race and religion should be the ones changing their mindset.

He using a ninja emoji ?? What is the issue?

And he insta post is not mockery??? It's just a pic.

Quote from OopsEncoreMoi

I laugh at the « nobody care », because almost 90% of fans hate him for it (I maybe the first person who deffend him here)

That's obviously not true. Americans care and certain people on social media but in general they don't care. Cultural appropriation doesn't even exists in my language as a term and if you tried to explain to people what it means they would be confused.

Eta: he looks cringy tho.

AA really want to be exclusive, it's funny how they're so into korean culture and arts

Are y'all fucking serious? Like genuinely.

Quote from monalisalove

Hip hop has a way of dressing that inspire rappers of others countries to follow them. I don't think Tarzzan is a bad image at all at it when the ones who stereotype people, race and religion should be the ones changing their mindset.

He using a ninja emoji ?? What is the issue?

And he insta post is not mockery??? It's just a pic.

I get that hip hop has a major influence but I feel he's going about it in the wrong ways

Unsure if it's just me but the way he used the ninja emoji felt like he was replacing it with the n word.

The post seems like a mockery to me due to the way he posted himself eating chicken and waffles. That's a meal that gained popularity in the US by the African American community. Presentation is everything and I don't think he presented the post well. It would be like eating an ethnic dish and posting yourself in a stereotypical attire while eating.

Quote from StanGIDLE

I get that hip hop has a major influence but I feel he's going about it in the wrong ways

This 100%. Paying homage is not wearing cornrows that has significant relevance to African American culture and acting "hip" which is really just according to a cringe stereotype. The problem is not him wearing braids, the problem is him wearing cornrow braids and acting like he's black. Mind you, I'm black and absolutely none of my family/friends act like this.

This thread just goes to show how certain kpop fans will support anything and I'm really unsurprised that YG stans are the main ones in here defending him.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

This 100%. Paying homage is not wearing cornrows that has significant relevance to African American culture and acting "hip" which is really just according to a cringe stereotype. The problem is not him wearing braids, the problem is him wearing cornrow braids and acting like he's black. Mind you, I'm black and absolutely none of my family/friends act like this.

This thread just goes to show how certain kpop fans will support anything and I'm really unsurprised that YG stans are the main ones in here defending him.

Most of them are blinks so don’t expect something smart from them

Quote from killthisfenty

Most of them are blinks so don’t expect something smart from them

Right. They can look at my stan list and laugh like as if my faves are the ones that have been shamelessly appropriating black culture for literal years + got exposed for saying the n word (which they still haven't apologized for, btw).

interesting

everyone has the right to cancel or defend any person they want for any reason they want

if one wants to boycott the group great

if one wants to support the group great

at the end of the day numbers don't lie

I cancelled kpop before cancel culture even existed.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Chicken and waffles

I was gonna give him a pass but clearly he did is research

Ayo chicken and waffles slap

I took a similar picture when I was in Pasadena a couple weeks ago, and I wasn't trying to appropriate any cultures

I was trying to appropriate that good ass FOOD

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Chicken and waffles

I was gonna give him a pass but clearly he did is research

I think they scrubbed most of his instagram post. I just remember the day the group was announced there were so many posts like that. Man was fully using Ninja emoji in comments

Reddit still have some of the stuff up, but TBL didn't think of scrubbing his profile before announcing him. Interesting thing is they fully know what's on social media because I remember there were many posts that he followed Tory Lanez. Then an hour later he unfollowed, so it's evident that they know what's going on

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Getting into David territory here fam

Maybe sit this one out...

That's somewhat impossible for reasons that should be fairly obvious at this point.

I am aware of the racial undertones that could be present when certain foods are referenced or highlighted, but I don't think that's always the case or I don't know how I could live life without being in a constant state of outrage.

Sometimes the person just wants some good ass fried chicken or waffles. I don't automatically assume they're trying to maliciously denigrate or mock black people by default.

Not from one photo.

This is entirely different from the Kiss of Life situation where there were a multitude of horrific optics all coalescing together to create an extremely toxic, ignorant and offensive catastrophe.

Unlike David, I can speak on my legitimate personal experiences dealing with the uphill battle of trying to reconcile cultural appreciation with cultural appropriation.

So nope, I will never sit out this conversation. I just don't treat every instance or incident the same. They all need to be examined individually.

At most, I think Tarzzan is a bit cringe. We have all seen way worse, and it's also par for the course with YG and YG adjacent acts as a whole.

I don't want to write essays, Daisy. That's why I'm choosing levity and brevity.

Well until this post.

Okay, that other stuff.

Let me just talk with Tarrzan for a bit and I'll set him straight.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

So you're just not factoring in the obvious blaccent and black aesthetics?

I just think I would've had to drop K-Pop a decade ago if I couldn't tolerate idols emulating the culture because they think it's "cool". Does it stoke the furious flames of my indignant rage when I see it? No, it honestly doesn't, unless it crosses the line and/or the person shows no remorse when their poc fans bring the matter to their attention.

Want a perfect example that encapsulates what I mean?

Truedy.

This girl was Tarzzan on steroids.

She emulated the culture so hard that people actually thought she was partially black, and she even had a bar referring to herself as such. Then it was exposed she is 100% Korean and looked it before adopting her persona.

And when fans communicated to her the problems with claiming a culture and people she does NOT belong to, she didn't apologize and doubled down saying she's just showing her appreciation.

So yes, there are times where I don't excuse people trying to cosplay as black artists because their obsession with the culture crosses into the equivalent to Korean** territory.

But honestly, some battles I just don't fight any more. If he wants to take a picture with chicken and waffles, whatever. If I hear him dropping bars like Truedy up there, claiming and trying to rep a culture he doesn't belong to, we'll have problems.

I just think it's a very nuanced conversation, and K-Pop fans, many of whom clearly AREN'T black, are rarely equipped to discuss it.

This is why I always say the reaction to the incidents piss me off way, way more than the incidents themselves.

Trust me, I was in the BUILDING for the Mamamoo incident in 2017. I have been through hell.

Quote from Yama-Chan

I just think I would've had to drop K-Pop a decade ago if I couldn't tolerate idols emulating the culture because they think it's "cool". Does it stoke the furious flames of my indignant rage when I see it? No, it honestly doesn't, unless it crosses the line and/or the person shows no remorse when their poc fans bring the matter to their attention.

Want a perfect example that encapsulates what I mean?

Truedy.

This girl was Tarzzan on steroids.

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She emulated the culture so hard that people actually thought she was partially black, and she even had a bar referring to herself as such. Then it was exposed she is 100% Korean and looked it before adopting her persona.

And when fans communicated to her the problems with claiming a culture and people she does NOT belong to, she didn't apologize and doubled down saying she's just showing her appreciation.

So yes, there are times where I don't excuse people trying to cosplay as black artists because their obsession with the culture crosses into the equivalent to Korean** territory.

But honestly, some battles I just don't fight any more. If he wants to take a picture with chicken and waffles, whatever. If I hear him dropping bars like Truedy up there, claiming and trying to rep a culture he doesn't belong to, we'll have problems.

I just think it's a very nuanced conversation, and K-Pop fans, many of whom clearly AREN'T black, are rarely equipped to discuss it.

This is why I always say the reaction to the incidents piss me off way, way more than the incidents themselves.

Trust me, I was in the BUILDING for the Mamamoo incident in 2017. I have been through hell.

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Aside from the fact that there is a lot of fans trying to hold him accountable, there are the people in this thread defending him by saying "we would have to cancel kpop as a whole." But no. That's quite the opposite of what people mean.

No one is saying to enact a witch hunt against him and get him kicked out of his group. We're saying that you guys should stop ignoring things simply because you've seen worse and instead let him know that what he's doing isn't okay. ESPECIALLY if he actually loves and respects black/hip-hop culture.

I don't see how hyping him up for/ignoring him doing controversial things is supposed to make him remorseful for embodying the same stereotype that has placed a false umbrella over black culture and people for many years. It would be a different story is TBL was forcing him to carry this hairstyle but no. It goes beyond the hairstyle and onto what Daisy already mentioned about him trying to copy black aesthetics, and accent.

Other than that, I agree. The "cancel kpop as a whole" reactions I'm seeing in this thread and on k-forums piss me off way more than his actions.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Aside from the fact that there is a bountiful number of fans trying to hold him accountable, there are the people in this thread defending him by saying "we would have to cancel kpop as a whole." But no. That's quite the opposite of what people mean.

No one is saying to enact a witch hunt against him and get him kicked out of his group. We're saying that you guys should stop ignoring things simply because you've seen worse and instead let him know that what he's doing isn't okay. ESPECIALLY if he actually loves and respects black/hip-hop culture.

I don't see how hyping him up for/ignoring him doing controversial things is supposed to make him remorseful for embodying the same stereotype that has placed a false umbrella over black culture and people for many years.

Other than that, I agree. The "cancel kpop as a whole" reactions I'm seeing in this thread and on k-forums piss me off way more than his actions.

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I have more than once said I would not try to discourage, dismiss or downplay anyone who thinks he's leaning heavily into CA and takes offense to it, and I maintain that stance. My reaction was purely to the chicken and waffles picture.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Yeah that's great and all

I just find it interesting how many develop an "appreciation" for black culture that goes almost exclusively to aesthetics, ignorant imitation of blaccents and every stereotype in the book but always falls short of any cultural awareness to know how offensive that stuff is. And it's not like it's not out there. Maybe because it's obviously not appreciation?

If you choose to drawn the line at outright racism, that's your choice. But I'm not going to look at this minstrel-lite idols with anything other than what they deserve: disgust and disdain.

There are plenty of ways to appreciate black culture without becoming a distasteful caricature of black people.

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My line is my line, and I never claimed otherwise. You compared me to David, so I'm pushing back on that accusation, since it literally couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm not here to draw any lines for anyone else.

I just would've given up this hobby long ago if this exceeded my personal tolerance and threshold for the inevitable ignorance that accompanies the surface level obsession with black culture prevalent in K-Pop.

Someone pls send me a introduction to who these people are and what they look like on pics cause IDK who yall even talk about aaah

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Poor take

There's plenty of great groups out there not making asses out of themselves for "street cred"

It's not like Tarzzan is my bias

And yes, I'm jaded.

Quote from JiminieKookie

Someone pls send me a introduction to who these people are and what they look like on pics cause IDK who yall even talk about aaah

Short intro

This was posted a day ago with English subtitles by doyouram

It's funny how when people share concerns about an idol being offensive, they're met with extreme responses like "so you want to cancel all kpop". Like, no, we just want to have a conversation of why these things are considered uncomfortable and offensive to some (though not all) African American people.

So interesting how people are always like "they're just trying to appreciate this culture" but when so many people from said culture or who at least live surrounded by said culture let y'all know that it is actually quite offensive or at the very least weird/cringe, their response is always to downplay or minimize the feelings of people actually within the culture. If there was truly any appreciation for this culture, y'all would actually listen to people from said culture.

African Americans are not a monolith. There are plenty of them who don't give a shit about this stuff, and that is completely their right and their perspectives deserve to be heard and respected. On the other hand, there are plenty of African Americans who do clearly care and put so much effort into educating others and they're just met with overt or subtle racism instead. Which is unfortunately not surprising. They also deserve to be heard and respected.

My faves have done CA and my bias, Chen, has even made a racist joke. Did they apologize? No. I'm not going to act like my stanlist is full of saints and that I am holier than thou. But I also to my best to engage in these difficult conversations and educate myself on why what they did is wrong. I don't try to hide what they've done. And I support everyone who unstanned them because of their actions. And I am thankful that they haven't done these things again. Nobody is going to have a completely unproblematic stanlist, but when people go out of their way to ignore and minimize the hurt of minorities, that's when it gets especially weird.

EDIT: Actually, ATEEZ did apologize. It was EXO & Chen that I believe haven't. Could be an SM thing, could be a way to avoid getting into more of a scandal, I don't know. I don't know them or the insider gossip on what went on behind the scenes. But I will forever wish they properly apologized.

I won't negate the feeling of those who feel that their culture is being mocked

But if he is being cancelled at least it should be by those fele that their culture has been mocked, and not by those who are trying to cancel him on behalf of others and they themselves have nothing to do with the culture

It's ok if you think it's an issue but like I'm Asian so I'm not gonna get offended on behalf of Black people so those who are cancelling him better not be "doing it on behalf"

And if you are cancelling him then it better be no double standards and cancel the same other who have done other problematic stuff like saying the N-word and not apologised or even addressed it and act like they didn't do such thing

Honestly this noise marketing with Tarzan really worked. That’s for sure.

The best thing to do is to ignore this group and not talk about them if

Quote from OopsEncoreMoi

Like you're the only black person here (rêve pas meuf)

Like I said first cancel K-pop and all their weird stereotypes about white and Black people. Tell them to quit playing dress-up as Westerners and maybe focus on their own culture for once. Then, maybe we can talk about Tarzan. Until then

You're a racist weirdo that deserves not another second of attention from me. Bye.