So...Can we uhhhh discuss the elephant in the room?

I know I'm going to trigger certain users, but I can't fight against my twisted nature

No music show wins

No All-Kill or even a #1 on MelOn

Pretty meh Spotify streams

I just find these results kind of surprising, and I'm curious why it happened.

Yes, I'm being ambiguous on purpose. But if you know you know.

Quite frankly, the last two comebacks, aespa has outperformed them, and this most recent one wasn't even close.

I'm just not sure what to make of it.

IVE got to know what others here think.

Edit: Yes, I'm talking about IVE

Quote from 0ppar

Ive no idea who you are referring to

You sure?

Quote from selfmate

I am a fan of IVE

I'm here for the music for the members personalities the group cohesion

if their songs chart and PAK whatever that's a bonus not a requirement

Me too. People think I'm a hater because I make chart discussion threads, but I firmly believe we can discuss these things without it getting toxic.

In the Official YamaChan Girl Group Tiers, I had them at the top of the A tier for a reason. Now I'm unsure.

Quote from tetetete

Ups and downs in every artist's career

I think the fact that they are not sticking to one concept should help them in the long term

I agree, but I thought Baddie would be the down and the next would be a return to absolute dominance. But I Am might've been the peak. There is no shame in that whatsoever, but in my opinion it used to be:

NewJeans. Gap. IVE. Big gap. Everyone else.

In terms of Korean digitals.

I am not so sure now. I was actually stunned they didn't win a music show.

Quote from selfmate

the question is if the sole thing you base your tier list not on the songs and how much you like them but on the numbers...

CHARTS

Quote from Wateris

Are we talking about IVE here? If so, it's because newer groups were debuting left and right.

I mean, a queen doesn't concern herself with the petty squabbles of the common folk.

No offense, but top girl groups do top girl group things regardless of competition. And outside of NewJeans, no girl group deserves that label more than IVE. Historically.

Baddie was their worst performing comeback digitally, but it still got a PAK at least. Heya didn't even hit #1, and it won't now that aespa is surging and NJ returns this week

Quote from tetetete

I personally think NJ's edge over I've is due to international performance and not korean digitals

Quote from Disevidence

Big gap from Ive to behind IVE?

Tomboy - 500k ULs, PAK

Nxde- 500k ULs, PAK

Queencard 500k (to date the last to get 500k) ULs, PAK

Fate - 380k ULs, PAK

I'm not suggesting IVE weren't 2nd in Korea for that time period digitally in korea, because they were, but I disagree with the 'big gap'.

I-dle had Allergy Top 10, My Bag top 20 with insane longevity, Super Lady and Wife both top 10 too.

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I think the run of dominance from Love Dive to After Like and I Am put them way ahead of any girl group not named NewJeans digitally.

I think they showed signs of slippage with their Baddie comeback, but chalked it up to just the usual variance that happens to any group that sticks around long enough, no matter how big.

I think Big Gap went to just Gap back then.

But now that we've had enough time to comfortably reach conclusions about their latest comeback, I think the Gap is smaller than it's ever been...if not gone.

Quote from icyruios

Anyways serious answer

Music show wins is because unlucky with SVT who will win ANY artist in physical sales other than BTS

Digitals is because of Zico + Jennie

And Starship don't give IVE a lot of playlisting and that limits their reach as well

Which honestly doesn't matter much because IVE just ended promotions because they have more important things to do like focusing on their second half of their World Tour

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I'm just being honest. I expected IVE to conquer Zico + Jennie. The Seventeen thing is understandable.

Quote from Disevidence

Disagree. They were ahead, definitely, but every Idle release during that period was a big hit and big PAK too, as well as b-sides popping off. Idle were keeping them honest in their 2nd spot.

Well I don't disagree with IDLE having big hits, but I wouldn't rank any of their songs at the level of Love Dive or I Am, which were National Hit songs.

If NewJeans didn't sweep most of the meaningful daesangs of 2023, it would've been IVE.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Most of your threads are bait, this one included. You're not genuinely concerned for their performance. I don't even care about IVE and it's obvious even to me.

You leave hate comments on the main site. Nobody cares what you think.

I also never said I was concerned about IVE. They'll be fine. I just wanted to discuss their charting.

Quote from icyruios

I didn't expect them to dethrone Zico + Jennie that song is huge.

It would require a really strong group or song to dethrone that song after maybe a few more weeks because the timing between the Zico song and Heya is not far.

A lot of #1s or PAK RAK I dunno what AK depends on competition and it just happen to be huge right now.

I might be wrong but I think even aespa's biggest song Next Level got no music show wins

The thing that matters more is touring because that won't be affected by timing or competition but everything else would

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Yes, they are touring very well. I just know that the peak of what we've seen from IVE wouldn't have lost to even Zico and Jennie. They'd be doing what aespa is doing currently.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

I don't hate, I speak the inconvenient truth. You're just looking for reactions. We are not the same.

Quote from icyruios

I might remember it wrongly but I feel like they should promote like how they did with Kitsch

Iirc Kitsch was released as a pre-release single, followed by I AM together with the album

Whereas in this case Heya was released together with the album, and Accendio is a second title track.

I feel that the release of the album didn't help in building hype for Accendio and the MV since people already listened to the song, compared to I AM where it was fresh out with the album.

Heya honestly is doing pretty well peaking at #2 with a huge song blocking them and that means they literally overtook everyone other than Zico + Jennie which is pretty commendable. Accendio on the other hand kinda lost the hype I feel because of how it was released.

And tbh it feel like for this comeback IVE seem to try and venture more into individual stuff? I see different members going to different program shows and stuff so it seems like they are trying to venture into other areas rather than focusing on promoting the music at full force.

Aespa is doing amazing due to MHJ+BANG kwangya karma SU SU SU SUPERNOVA

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Maybe they should go back to the I've IVE release strategy that they did with Kitsch + I Am. The results they had were better than the triple title track strategy with Baddie + OTR + EW or what they did with the latest album.

I know Zico + Jennie had a huge song, but as big as it is, it's still not as big as the biggest IVE hits.

I knew aespa would get the BSH slander buff, so that's why my prediction for their comeback was easy to make

Quote from gerrard174

HEYA is sandwiched between SPOT and Maestro.

SPOT has all the digital points + SNS due to Jennie featuring. Inkigayo basically on-locked for SPOT, Heya is behind in both big categories

Seventeen has super strong physical (which lessen IVE's chance on MuBank) and voting (which is core for Mcountdown & Mucore).

On top of that, LYW also took wins on MuCore which has heavy weightage on voting

Overall, just bad timing. With result like this, HEYA would have swept the music trophies at least for a week. I bet even groups like Newjeans, GIDLE, Aespa etc will lose majority of the trophies against the above opponents.

Again,music show trophies are relative measure. Next Level had 0 wins but it was SOTY. What's more important is HEYA is still received well on Kchart. It just wasn't enough to overtake SPOT. The momentum is NOT there for IVE unfortunately

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I knew all of that, as it was detailed on ****choa of all places, but I guess I just set the bar REALLY high for the top tier girl groups. Like, I couldn't imagine peak BP or Twice not getting any music show wins; it's unfathomable actually.

To me, IVE (pre Baddie/Heya anyway) is the group that you want to avoid overlapping with if you want music trophies and chart records, not the other way around. That's why I said they've come back to the pack more than ever.

You said the momentum is not there for IVE, and that's why I ask...well why?

Quote from versatile

How did you steal the thread idea I had in my drafts?? I can see why you're so popular YamaChwan

Also can we also talk about the quality drop they've had? Heya and baddie weren't it. And I love IVE..

People either love me or love to hate me wherever I go. There is no in between

But I won't stand for Baddie slander. That song actually grew on me. And I like Heya too. The only IVE song that I skip is After Like.