Isn't it ironic that Kpop fans always blame agencies for sexualizing female idols, yet the minute they go separate ways, it is the idols who start sexualizing themselves?

like most idols, i don't find either of them sexy. good perfomers tho

It was obvious in their case, especially hwasa. But you do see idols sometimes being visibly uncomfortable in what they’re wearing

Who tf even finds havasa sexy?

I mean that's not every idols case.

Lisa and Hwasa maybe just like to be seductive on stage (and that's fine) but most idols that wear revealing clothes and dance like that are forced to do so by their companies

SO no I will not be apologizing to any company. Especially not YG

Lisa for sure, but hwasa was already like that from day one.

Stan: Stop sexualizing my bias.

Bias: Please subscribe to me on Afreecatv.

There is a huge difference between an idol wanting a sexy concept for themselves and an agency imposing said concept on them we’ve seen many times idols saying how they’re uncomfortable with the sexy concept also let’s not forget when idols are with their companies most of the time they’re minors and their companies want to sexualise them but by the time these idols leave leave their company they’re already grown adult so of course they want to go with a concept that matches their age

This is one of your dumbest threads in a long while. Not a single person in their right mind ever claimed rbw or yg forced hwasa or lisa to go sexy, bc anyone with eyes can see hwasa and lisa like being sexy and want to explore that side of themselves, willingly. This is in direct contrast to the majority of “sexy” ggs (especially in 2nd gen), where most female idols always looked extremely uncomfortable having to comply with whatever demanded of them by their company, and some have even subsequently spoken out about this exploitation (i’d argue it’s even a violation in some cases) later on. Your examples to prove your non-existent point could not be any dumber

Are you that afraid companies might listen to criticism and stop sexualising idols? Is that why you want people to stop criticising them?

Quote from Dreamer95

I am glad my thread is giving you and 7 other idiots a false sense of intelectual superiority but the only dumb person here is you. "Anyone with eyes can see" it NOW, only after they left they either renogotiated or left their respective labels. Now think how many idols are there who are still restricted by their contract and rethink the term "majority" that you used.

you’re actually serious and doubling down rn? I can’t

Do not fucking talk to me about hwasa or lisa if you never followed them from day one and couldn’t see their desire for self expression that blinked as clearly as a fucking lightbulb from the start. They were never the type to be contained and restricted, and rbw and yg never tried to, at least in regards to their sexuality. They were always free to be sexy, and your claim that they only started to sexualise themselves after they left their companies is blatantly false. These are the two absolute worst examples you can possibly think of to prove your point lmao

Now if you turned to idols like lovelyz’s mijoo or gfriend’s yuju, you might have a case to argue some idols prefer a more mature route for their career than what their company planned for them, except you failed to also consider their groups’ overwhelmingly different image, and how it would be a detrimental blow to the whole group’s existing marketability/reputation if an individual idol could suddenly do a 180 however they wanted on their own. It’d be one thing if their groups’ direction veered sexy from the start, but it didn’t. This is not the same case with groups like mamamoo or bp, whose image was always more free since the beginning (hence why your examples are dumb). So you can’t really fault lovelyz or gfriend’s companies for not altering the rest of the members’ future and possibly pushing them past their comfort level just to appease a single individual’s wish. It should only be done with consent from all members, and we did see woolim and source music eventually show their groups’ maturity once they aged out of their rookie era (obliviate and fever/apple/mago come to mind), so you can’t even claim these companies never listened or allowed their idols to mature. It’s not like yuju suddenly pulled out pole dancing only after she went solo - she did it in a gfriend mv lol.

There’s a big fat chunk of sexy ggs out there who were never offered the option to decide how far they had to take it, and there’s literally a lot of evidence of idols speaking out about being pushed far past what they were comfortable with against their will. You want to ignore all those cases, just to have a “gotcha” moment with kpop fans that never had any ground to stand on in the first place? And even if your claim was true, it’s still much less unethical and morally exploitative to ask idols to do aegyo here and there than it is to make them show their skin and literally flash their vag if they they don’t want to. Can’t believe you actually tried to argue otherwise. Scum behaviour tbh

Hwasa and Lisa whilst still heavily promoting with mamamoo and bp under rbw and yg's contracts:

Dreamer:

hurr durr isn't it ironic that kpop fans always blame agencies for sexualising female idols when idols only start to sexualise themselves as soon as when they go separate ways (referring specifically to hwasa and lisa)

What a major L inflected on yourself by no one but yourself lmao

I Apologize to JYP in the name of Onces and Midzys. -Im sorry, JY Park, Kpop genius, Champion of girlgroups. we dont deserve you-

Blame fans also for sexualizing idols lol. Companies wouldn’t push for those images if creeper fans didn’t “demand” it. Either way, it’s gross if forced unto idols.

Quote from SooYoung

worst takes i've ever seen

Hwasa and lisa have show plenty of time that they like dipping into their sexy side on stage or in their songs that's nothing new, some idols just like some western celebrities like being sexy

what is not ok and will never apologize for is for calling agency who sexualize their idol disgusting

for example with jeewon from cignature

she did a whole interview where the MC where disgusting talking to her about how she know for her great body (b**bs) and asking her why she didn't go to perform at the waterbomb festival, where the goal of this festival is just to wet idol clothes

and you can see how uncomfortable she is when they talk about her body, and understand why she didn't want to go when you see how her company dress her

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she's clearly uncomfortable about being sexualize and how people focus on her body and that's how her company decide to dress her on a daily basis

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Give her a couple of years, she will be like Eunbi, if she wants to go solo she will take that route, it's all being uncomfortable till they see they start being more popular if they do it.

Quote from Dreamer95

I am not reading all that shit. Good for you, or sorry it happened.

i’m sorry for your illiteracy, as anticipated. Luckily there’s already a condensed version previously provided for the challenged like you, enjoy

Quote from Competence2

Hwasa and Lisa whilst still heavily promoting with mamamoo and bp under rbw and yg's contracts:

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Dreamer:

hurr durr isn't it ironic that kpop fans always blame agencies for sexualising female idols when idols only start to sexualise themselves as soon as when they go separate ways (referring specifically to hwasa and lisa)

What a major L inflected on yourself by no one but yourself lmao

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Quote from licoricebtch

Blame fans also for sexualizing idols lol. Companies wouldn’t push for those images if creeper fans didn’t “demand” it. Either way, it’s gross if forced unto idols.

Says the one who has half naked idol as their profile pic🙄

Quote from Dreamer95

But then again, if idol wants a sexy concept but agency enforces modesty on them, why isn't it treated as equally violating and bad?

Quote from Competence2

There’s a big fat chunk of sexy ggs out there who were never offered the option to decide how far they had to take it, and there’s literally a lot of evidence of idols speaking out about being pushed far past what they were comfortable with against their will. You want to ignore all those cases, just to have a “gotcha” moment with kpop fans that never had any ground to stand on in the first place? And even if your claim was true, it’s still much less unethical and morally exploitative to ask idols to do aegyo here and there than it is to make them show their skin and literally flash their vag if they they don’t want to. Can’t believe you actually tried to argue otherwise. Scum behaviour tbh

Not you actually equating the two situations fr for a dumbass gotcha moment that isn’t even true Scumbags gotta scumbags ig

Quote from Dreamer95

You really are desperate to talk to me, aren't you?

You're writing walls of texts while you lost the entire point and I am not even sure I want to explain it to someone so dumb. I am not saying that agencies "should be sexualizing idols" you ape, I am saying "how do you know they are the ones doing it in a given case"?

My point is that while idols are contracted, every fucking time they show the skin fans automatically assume it is the company doing it against their will, when it isn't necessarily the case. If we have a legit prove of idols being indeed sexualizing against their will like Stellar for example, then sure, go on and be upset as much as you want.

you seconds ago: “why is forcing idols to act cute as bad as forcing idols to act sexy”

The whole point is the two things aren’t equally as bad. One is much worse. My post literally answered this exact question you posed and you didn’t even get that. Imagine trying to call other people dumb

No one assumed you think companies should force idols to act sexy. You pulled that out of your arse lmao it literally has zero correlation with my post, you just made it up bc you didn’t grasp the simple point So not dumb, indeed

Quote from Dreamer95

Yes, that's what I said and the only thing you finally got right, congratulations. Who says the two things aren't equally bad? Sharia law? Bible? Who the fuck are you to be morality of what's right or not?

you can think whatever you want. I never set out to become a warden trying to educate or change prisoners. I just addressed your own question, which you didn’t even get ironically and made up some bs i never said to try to undermine my point you didn’t get.

I think you’re scum for thinking the two things are equally as bad. You can disagree, I don’t care. And don’t waste your breath replying if you just want to refute this. I won’t change my mind, just like you obviously won’t change yours.

Ps: no kpop stan ever claimed hwasa and lisa were forced to act sexy by their company, so your calling out these imaginary people you picked out specifically for your argument is extra dumb That’s my whole point you didn’t get, on top of the previous point, but whatever, i’m tired of calling out your obvious lack of logic and sense

While there’s people dying, someone is worried whether idols are dressed naked enough or whether they’re sexualizing themselves enough smh

Quote from Dreamer95

And I think you're a religious hypocrite cunt who thinks the more clothers on a woman the better.

Ironic coming from someone who wrote me a wall of text when I didn't even want to engage with you in the first place.

Because they didn't, or at least Lisa didn't do that while in company you moron. Which shows that company was putting boundaries on her, which you think is okay, as long as it is towards "modesty".

1) don’t put words in people’s mouth, your incel energy is showing. Forcing a woman to show skin and disrespecting her wishes regarding her body does not equal asking her to smile and act cute for the camera. Both can be overbearing demands but they are not equal in terms of violating the person in question. This mentality isn’t the gotcha moment you think it is

Also, you have no room to talk regarding “religious cunts” when your attitude towards the lgbt community is that they didn’t deserve rights in the past bc it wasn’t acceptable at the time lmao

2) no one forced you to engage, you did that yourself. I just responded to bs that reeked too badly, like i do all the time, it’s not personal 😊 if you didn’t want to engage then don’t, it’s simple as that. No gun’s being pointed at your head

3) literally posted earlier in this thread:

Quote

Hwasa and Lisa whilst still heavily promoting with mamamoo and bp under rbw and yg's contracts:

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your claim is plain false. Hwasa and lisa were free to be sexy as they wish once their groups were secure, as long as it didn’t affect the group. There’s literally a mountain of evidence. No matter how much you want to pretend otherwise, it can’t change the past. Again, for the nth time, no kpop stan with eyes claimed hwasa and lisa were forced to be sexy, and they did own sexy very well.

what a big fat L this turned out for you

Quote from SooYoung

worst takes i've ever seen

Hwasa and lisa have show plenty of time that they like dipping into their sexy side on stage or in their songs that's nothing new, some idols just like some western celebrities like being sexy

what is not ok and will never apologize for is for calling agency who sexualize their idol disgusting

for example with jeewon from cignature

she did a whole interview where the MC where disgusting talking to her about how she know for her great body (b**bs) and asking her why she didn't go to perform at the waterbomb festival, where the goal of this festival is just to wet idol clothes

and you can see how uncomfortable she is when they talk about her body, and understand why she didn't want to go when you see how her company dress her

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she's clearly uncomfortable about being sexualize and how people focus on her body and that's how her company decide to dress her on a daily basis

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I am no great expert on body language, but I have never seen anyone more clearly show they are uncomfortable with someone else as Jeewon in that Twitter clip. (tensed up, arms crossed and pulling up even further when he asks in his demanding tone, leaning away).

OP, what is your goal here? Want some justification for the sexualisation of idols because two of the most successful ones made their own decision to perform in a certain way when they were already established as powerhouses in the industry and had much more clout than almost any other female idol out there?

Are we then also gonna list all the idols who did not make that choice, because they are way more of them. If you consider two as proof, then I will consider those many idols who did not take that route as proof that idols are generally uncomfortable with it.

Unfortunately, there are so many scenarios of female idols being uncomfortable or in an awkward position, often sexualizing them, which is disgusting. This post feels almost like you’re trying to mask the real issues in the K-pop scene. Because even though there are idols who pick to do concepts like that, there are a ton of idols who get sexualized and put in uncomfortable situations. Let’s address the real issues, please.

Quote from Dreamer95

And I think you're a religious hypocrite cunt who thinks the more clothers on a woman the better.

You seem very frustrated.

I know it sounds counter intuitive but psychologically it makes sense.

They are claiming back something that was stolen from them. It's a way of taking control back and being in the driver seat again.

Quote from y2kprxncess

Unfortunately, there are so many scenarios of female idols being uncomfortable or in an awkward position, often sexualizing them, which is disgusting. This post feels almost like you’re trying to mask the real issues in the K-pop scene. Because even though there are idols who pick to do concepts like that, there are a ton of idols who get sexualized and put in uncomfortable situations. Let’s address the real issues, please.

Frankly, I don't think he cares.

It seems he cares about cute idols acting sexy 'for him' and is mad at those people wanting idols to not be pushed into sexualisation they are not comfortable with.

People blame companies for sexualising female idols, but yet in reality, it's worked and it's benefited many of their careers, like it or not.

Hani was able to kickstart hers and EXID's career with a single legendary fancam, and now Eunbi at least was able to gain some traction and momentum from Waterbomb. In saying that tho, it is a bit uncomfortable how that's literally all they talk about in shows she's guested on so far, but if it works for her then it is what it is.

In the end, it all depends on what they want to wear. There's been many instances where the idols appeared very uncomfortable, then they shouldn't be wearing those outfits. But in other instances, if that's what they want, then who's to say they can't wear them? Idols know what they're selling and if that's how they're going to survive in the industry then they're going to do what they have to.

Quote from Dreamer95

But then again, if idol wants a sexy concept but agency enforces modesty on them, why isn't it treated as equally violating and bad?

That's why it's good when a group like Twice stops releasing cute shit and start releasing (and choosing to perform) songs they really like!