Life expectency is 83 years though.

i think its just that theres so many people there...and since there are so many people theres gonna be a bigger deficit when it comes to money and the “whos richa and whos poor” thing...also there’s literally just a lot of people so i think thats the main problem...the rooms are small so they can fit as many ppl as they can into one building

People tend to forget that korea was basically a dicatorship just 30 years ago.

That said, life expectancy, healthcare (and internet) is ranked among the best in the world. This will ofc depend on where you live and a part of the population is still very poor, some older people live in absolute horrific conditions.

The biggest problem south korea have today is their housing problem and its only getting worse by the year, and its a big problem when almost everything is concentrated to seoul, regular people can't afford to get housing near where they have to work. There's a huge corruption scandal regarding this right now and its dominating the news cylce, all those bullying scandals etc are basically forgotten , all talk is about housing and corruption.

Air quality problem is a mix of natural problems and reliance on coal. Mostly from coal power plants. They are changing for green options, but it will take time to see results. Now particles brought by sand storms can't be avoided.

Now internet, this is strange. SK has one of the best internet infrastructures in the world. I think this claim is a bit suspicious. SK is ranked #2 in mobile and #12 in broadband. Malaysia has a little over half the broadband average of SK, so this doesn't compute.

Housing in SK is a serious concern. I don't think it's a unique problem. Other metropolis are having issues with this. Cities like Seoul will rank pretty high in this particular issue, so this is a valid complaint.

SK may be a rich country, but they only got this status recently. At least this status is new to organizations like World Bank.

I'd say SK may be more stressing in some aspects than expected for a developed country which shouldn't be surprising considering history and geopolitics. However, SK ranks very high in ease of doing business which attract entrepreneurs and investments. SK has bad aspects like every other country, but there are also good reasons to go there. Even with bad air quality, if having a healthy life is a concern, SK compensates for the bad air quality in other ways.

they should fix the trash system first. Its literally so disgusting that they leave trashbags outside of the stores on the streets waiting to picked. Then crows and stray cats will spreas all the trashes around. The smell is sometimes so horrible. How can Seoul do this and have so high profile?

I dunno... for me, I don't like their patriarchal society 🤷‍♀️

(Or maybe I've watched too many K dramas)

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For the internet, she said that by comparing the price of high speed internet in her country and korea, it's a lots more worth it in malaysia.

agrees that the housing issues is not just in korea but I've noticed that it's a lots worst in korea than any other places and beside that its not a new thing.

Ive seen a lots of cases and stories from korean themselves that they live in a very small house and most of the times (especially old building) that a no job person like idols and other unfortunate people live in a insect infested house, that literally have rats crawling every night.

so for the poor in korea, they definitely have it harder than others because everything is so expensive right, even by korean standard.

for the air quality, i think it goes on how you see it. It's kind of like smoking.. you might smoke and think oh its nothing but the truth is if you keep on damaging your body, its going to come back to you sooner or later.

as for business wise, idk... i think korea is definitely a good business location because of kpop but in term of prices to produce industrial goods in korea, i dont think its that appealing.

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Dunno how good are internet providers in Malaysia, maybe the best service there has better bang for the bucks, but looking at numbers and stats, Malaysia isn't close to SK yet, so I'd not take the word of a person to judge the whole infrastructure. I'd take more issue with internet censorship in SK than quality of service.

There are lot of cases and stories from Koreans, but I don't think it's anything that special. Lot of big cities around the world suffer similar levels. Judging by numbers if you look up stats. I think you are going too far on anecdotal references than the big picture. Of course testimonial of poor Koreans will paint a horrible picture. You can do the same everywhere.

For air quality, sure it bites you sooner or later. However, like I said, SK compensates that in other areas. Otherwise, life expectancy there would be very low. Instead despite the poor air quality, they manage to be very high in this stats. Of course, if this is a deal breaker, why go to SK then? It's not like it is a well hidden secret.

For business, you don't judge this just for industrial output or cost or Kpop for this matter. Usually how to measure how good is to do business in a country is measured on how easy it is to open it, to invest, and to solve litigation. SK ranks pretty high in 2 of them and fine in 1. SK is up there in most rankings. Unless you wanna trust your observations more than economists and data specialists, I'd trust that over what you said. After all business people look at these stats when deciding where to go.

There are bad things in SK like high cost of living. Malaysia would have a better cost of living for sure. Quality of life index in SK is kinda low for a developed country (similar to Poland or Uruguay, still around 6th best in Asia). However, your angle of argumentation seems a bit weird and a little too focused on personal experience. Some of them aren't wrong like housing and air quality, but the internet part and later the business part is way off reality.

Anyway, I think most of the why was answered. Air quality = reliance on coal + sand storms. Housing = very high cost compared to what you paying for. Internet speed = I have to call BS on this one.

75% of young want to escape South Korean ‘Hell’

https://asiatimes.com/2019/12/…escape-south-korean-hell/

From afar, South Koreans might appear to be blessed among East Asians.

Citizens of a prosperous democracy that has birthed a hero-to-zero national success story, world-beating corporate brands, a futuristic infrastructure and the glitzy K-pop universe that is beloved across the region, they boast enviable looks, lifestyles and quality of life.

Up close, things look different. According to a recent survey of 5,000 persons, 75% of 19-34 year old natives of the world’s 11^th richest nation want out.

The shock finding, reported in the popular Hankyoreh newspaper on December 29, was revealed at Korea Women’s Development Institute’s 119th Gender Equality Policy Forum, in a presentation titled “Diagnosis of Gender Conflicts from a Youth Standpoint and Suggested Policy Responses for an Inclusive State: A Gender Analysis of Fairness Perceptions.”

The survey found that 79.1% of young women and 72.1% of young men want to leave Korea, that 83.1% of young women and 78.4% of young men consider Korea “hell” and that 29.8% of young women and 34.1% of young men consider themselves “losers.”

Beyond gender differences, the survey suggests massive popular dissatisfaction with local life.

But does it demand that Seoul’s elite sit down and seriously ponder the Korean Dream? Or does it merely reflect superficial talk among youth who live decent lives and have no real intention of leaving?

‘Hell Joseon’

A catchphrase has become current among young Koreans in recent years to describe their country: “Hell Joseon” – “Joseon” being the name of a long-dead Korean kingdom. That phrase is being superseded by a new term, “Tal-Jo” – a pormanteau comprising “leave” and “Joseon,” which, vernacularly, might be best be translated as “Escape Hell.”

“As a joke, we call Korea ‘Hell Joseon,’ but there is another term called ‘Tal-Jo’ which we use a lot more than ‘Hell Joseon’ nowadays,” Park Ji-na, a 20-something Seoul undergraduate, told Asia Times. “Me and my friends just use this in conversation as joke, but if I had a good opportunity to go abroad and work, I would.”

Some say it is far from unique to Korea. “I think there is a middle class crisis in all wealthy countries,” Pae Hee-kyung, who runs an educational institute near Seoul, told Asia Times.

Across the developed, post-industrial world, middle classes are under perceived siege from falling living standards, evaporating opportunities and rising wealth inequality. These trends have arisen against the backdrop of a globalizing world that distributes capital and jobs away from customary centers of investment, manufacturing and related prosperities.

Some pundits posit that these issues explain Brexit in the UK, the election of Donald Trump in the US and the protests of young Hong Kongers.

Are South Koreans different?

For Korea, the transition from poverty to prosperity and the rise of the bourgeoisie has been shockingly fast: The country morphed from little-known agricultural backwater to global industrial powerhouse in just three decades. While Koreans from the mid-1960s to the mid-1990s could anticipate decent jobs and rising standards of living as growth rates surged, this is no longer the case.

“Here, if you look at your father’s generation, they had less in material terms but they had hopes that, every year, they would be paid more, that they could buy an apartment, and that the price would go up and they would feel a sense of achievement and wealth,” Daniel Tudor, author of Korea: The Impossible Country, told Asia Times.

That is no longer the case for two reasons.

Firstly, the South Korean economy has matured and growth has slowed from the high double digits to the low single digits. Secondly, the national growth locomotives – family-run conglomerates, such as Samsung, Hyundai and LG – have gone global and off-shored. With South Korea’s population now at a national high of 51 million persons, there are insufficient full-time, white-collar positions to absorb a highly educated populace.

Yet Korea’s unemployment statistics are hardly calamitous. According to World Bank data, between 1995 and 2017, unemployment only rose above 4% for three years – 1999, 2000 and 2001 ( in the wake of the Asia financial crisis). It stood at over 4% for the first eight months of 2019, but fell to 3.6% in November, according to data provider CEIC. The youth unemployment rate in South Korea averaged 7.19% from 1982 until 2019, according to Statistics Korea, but despite hitting a high of 11.7% in April this year, had dropped to 7.1% in October.

A related issue is property. Koreans have traditionally not invested in securities or financial products, preferring to sink their savings into homes – a trend exacerbated by the low-interest-rate era. The result: soaring house prices. Combine this with half the national population – some 24 million persons – living in and around the Seoul metropolitan area, and it is easy to understand why young Koreans think they will never be able to afford a home.

And there is one area where young Koreans sense a distinctly local injustice. In this neo-Confucian, fast-growth economy, education provides the key to success. The college entrance system, despite methodological criticisms, was widely assessed as being fair. Now, questions hang over that.

In recent years, the children of two prominent figures – Choi Soon-sil, the confidante of jailed ex-President Park Geun-hye, and Cho Kuk, a short-lived justice minister under the current Moon Jae-in administration – have been revealed to have enjoyed privileged access to top colleges. The cases have emerged from both sides of the political spectrum, suggesting a broad culture of elite entitlement.

Many feel a resultant bitterness.

Such privileged people “have a lot of money and are using that money to go to universities and their lives are very ensured,” said Park. “But however hard we work, we don’t even know if we will be able to buy a house – I don’t know how we can live in the future!”

Real concern or youth talk?

Clearly, the study’s findings reflect the talk of youth. How should they be analyzed?

According to the World Bank’s GINI co-efficient data, South Korea is a reasonable 31.6, compared with Japan at 32.1, the UK at 33.2 and the US at 41.5 – the higher the number, the graver the inequality – but author Tudor believes that Korea’s fast-track development trajectory has engendered acute sensitivities.

“I don’t think Korea is particularly unequal – it is quite middle class compared to other wealthy countries – but if you go back one or two generations, things were very equal: everyone had nothing.” he said. “When everyone has nothing you don’t feel poor, but now, even if you have quite a decent standard of living, you look at others around and you may feel, ‘Oh my god!’”

Pae, the educator, opines that the current young are not as badly served by their systems as they believe.

“In the Korean education system, there are lots of chances for scholarships; Korean higher education is a lot cheaper than abroad; and there are plenty of chances of working holidays – so there are lots of opportunities,” she said. “But millennials want to get out of this cycle.”

Another issue is a very notable national tendency to raise emotive voices.

“Since I have been living in Korea, people complain all the time,” said Tudor. “The president is terrible – whoever he or she is – and the economy is terrible or on the brink of a crisis – however good it may be.”

Even Park, the student, admits that she and her friends are not actually planning moves.

“I and my friends talk about leaving Korea, but in order for us to get jobs abroad we should at least have a doctor’s degree, or have certain qualifications like nurse or UX designer,” she said. “Me and my friends, who study liberal arts or business, though we say ‘Tal Jo’ – we can’t.”

Really? I haven't checked the Quality of Life index but from what I remember being stationed in Korea, the general consensus was that the average Korean citizen

was doing alright aside from a few North Korea scares and the bad air quality, which I surprisingly never noticed while I was there.

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Well, i dont really know about the internet. Its probably better value for money in her country . As for internet censorship in korea, idk if i want to touch on that subject since i dont really know what they censor in korea, but i do believe that if it's for the better good of their citizen then censor it.

since I'm talking about quality of life, i think its important to take personal experiences and what I've seen into account and honestly the big picture dont really look that good to me especially in point that I've mentioned, air quality and housing and im sure there are other things too.

As for how sk compensate for lack of healthy air, idk what is that compensation.

I dont really know if business have anything to do with quality of life, While its easy to open and start up a business in korea, you seems to forget that its cost that matter. All of these entrepreneurs and businessman that want to open a business would look at the cost of doing it in korea and at the end of the day, Korea is pretty expensive and it's profit that matters. the less the cost the more you get out of it. Based on what I've seen businessman tend to go for the more cost effective country than the expensive one.

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Yeah, but if talking about quality of life, internet cost and quality has little to do with it. You created a topic talking about these and linking with quality of life in SK. Still it doesn't change the fact that you're using hearsay to talk about internet when stats just prove it otherwise.

The problem with your approach is it's too focused on testimonial to judge the whole picture. I think it doesn't represent the problem very well. Mileage varies greatly with personal experience, so you can't use it to judge the whole country's experience on big topics like quality of life. At best, you can judge a city.

Now about business has as much to do with quality of life as housing. It may not be a direct relation, but countries with good volume of business and investment tend to better chance to seek better quality of life. This isn't a mystery. Countries that tend to have poor business environment tend to be poor economically. Your view of business seems very narrow. However, business are much more than that. If I wanna open a type of business where cost is very important like a factory of cheap products, sure SK isn't that on top of choices as cost is a priority. However, for other business that cheap labor isn't a concern, SK is up there.

Just google best countries to do business and most of them are very expensive places like Singapore, Western Europe, Japan, and so on.
There is more to business than cost. Safety for investment, ease of opening business, stability, credit, and so on are way more important than cost, for instance. Start ups look for access to highly educated labor which isn't cheap. Of course, it depends on what kind of project the investor is looking for. SK focus on attracting high value ones like other developed countries than low cost low margin types that usually go to countries with cheaper costs of operation and labor which usually means low to mid level income nations. These countries attract the type of businesses you seem more focused on.

If we really are talking about quality of life, we could check the index and see why it is high or low and get from there. SK ranking is a bit bad compared to other developed countries as general ranking is around 4Xth, so we can discuss on those terms or maybe under other factors like the idea of Hell Joseon if you wanna focus on why SK is specially/uniquely bad.

For the ones you gave which may be relevant like air quality, looking at ranking, even just considering Seoul, it's not that high ranking worst air quality in the world. It's bad and dusty, but not special. Lot of countries use coal power plants. The only thing that may be unique about the bad air quality there is the sand storms reaching the Korea peninsula. Otherwise, looking at top 500, Seoul isn't there. There are 3 areas that got there(probably close to these power plants), but so is from places you don't expect like Milan.

For housing, SK does have a pretty bad index on property price to income ratio. Also, it probably contributes to high cost of living a lot as SK ranks high on that as well. Looking at these factors separated, SK ranking isn't unique. Pressure for housing is all time high in a lot places, not just SK. However, looking at the property to income index, SK and Taiwan are comparable, but Taiwan has lower cost of living. SK living cost is comparable to Japan while Japan has better property income ratio. Basically SK got the worse of both worlds in this aspect if we compare to these two similar countries.

Of course we are looking on things that make SK ranking low and make the average goes down a lot. However, to compensate, SK ranks high on other aspects like safety, healthcare, purchasing power, education, access to amenities, and so on. SK ranks medium to low on other stuff besides air quality and cost of living like traffic.

You can't look to just 2 factors (internet in this context is irrelevant) and judge the whole to make a conclusion.

Too fast growth

Lack of natural resources (ironically most are in North Korea) thus high emphasize on knowledge and “soft power”

still being officially at war claims resources that could have been out to better use

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Nope, i do think that internet is important when it comes to quality of life but i guess the comparison of it is wrong like what you've mentioned, korea definitely have a high speed internet due to the density of their cities but i guess it's still overpriced compares to some other countries.

Now I think you are dying in a hill you shouldn't.

If we go for personal experience, my SK internet experience was so much better than what I have in USA. Much much better for 1/3 to 1/2 of the price I pay here. Granted USA doesn't have the greatest internet infrastructure for such rich nation, so I googled about Malaysia speed and price. It's one third of the average speed in broadband for more than double the cost of SK. Probably better than I have in USA, but no way it's better than SK. I have to call bullshit on your friend and what you are stating here and I rather trust information from data websites about it than you or her.

Also, I googled average prices around the world because of your statement about "compares to some other countries" and cost wise it's mid to low cost tier. Not many above SK have similar quality and speed (the ones that match are known tech countries like SK). The rest of the countries with cheaper internet aren't known for having decent internet. I think you need to be more careful with some statement because those aren't facts. You can google this shit before making this sorta blank statements ffs. Because of that I can't trust your other statements on anything else if you throw careless statements like this.

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i think it goes both ways, sometimes we cannot really rely too much on stats because there are still a lots of variables that you need to take into account so my approach has always been based on what i see, what i read and the data.

Hum, I have to question this approach because we are talking about a country and trying to make a judgment on its quality of life. There are data about that and you can read about how they get these numbers and rankings and interpret it. Personal experience rarely suffice for that. Anecdotal evidence is much much worse at dealing with variables, so what else you wanna use besides real facts?

Not saying her personal experience is invalid, but the weight you put to pass judgment in a whole big system isn't a good approach for this type of conclusion. If she was saying the city she lives in has bad quality of life because of worse internet experience, I may accept that, but you are passing opinion the whole SK with her experience. You can't get away with just that.

Yes, we can rely on science and data much better than anecdotes and opinions based on anything else but data. If we are discussing opinion only, sure. However, the topic you chose has data and can be measured. You may not agree with the measurements, but you aren't offering better than that as well, so I can dismiss your disagreement on this basis. What is the problem with data is more about not being able to process or understand it properly and take it at face value and ignore context. I can agree on this only. Anything else it is trusting on faith only.

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and i think based on all of that, the individual well-being and livelihood in korea is still just not up to standard.

Did I disagree with you on this? I said for a developed country, quality of life isn't as high as it should. What I question is judging this on just looking at internet, air quality, and housing from what your friend said. There are other factors that are as important to say the least.

Now the idea of compensate, I think you are taking it the wrong way. I don't mean health care compensate for air quality. What I'm saying air quality isn't the only factor for health and wellbeing.

If you think like that, most of the air in most big cities are bad. Like I said, Seoul is really bad, but it's not in the top 500 list. Other places manage to beat it somehow. The places listed with worse air quality in SK actually are places where people may think air is better than Seoul. Your observation about the importance of air quality isn't being ignored.

However, you are kinda ignoring other factors we are stated as "compensations". Despite such well known and well documented poor air quality, SK has a decent life expectancy and people are generally healthy. Sure, if the air quality was better it would greatly improve the quality of life index. However, it is just a part of a complex equation. So you shouldn't put too much weight on your statements on just this factor. That's my objection.

For instance, a place with air quality as bad as Seoul but worse healthcare system would have immediately worse quality of life. Also, a place with much better air quality, but not adequate healthcare system would also have worse quality of life. Healthcare system is much better indicator than air quality IMO. Still SK can improve air quality with their green initiatives and hopefully they can phase out their dependency on coal and fossil fuels that directly affect air quality.

We could talk about other stuff that lower quality of life besides this. Air quality and housing we are on the same page. Internet, I think we can drop this as nonsense. We could talk about how stressing it is living there for Koreans, why is that, and how it affects quality of life overall. We can deal with this angle with less data as well.

I have lived in Korea and I have lived in Germany. Personally I do not think one is substantially better than the other even though both are developed countries. There are just differences. Yes the apartments many Koreans live in are not very big. But you have to consider that almost 25% of South Koreans live in one single megacity, Seoul. Its extremely crammed not because it has to be but because people just dont leave and keep on coming. Which makes space more expensive. In Germany not even 5% of our current population live in our biggest city Berlin. This fact will make a huge difference. Plus, it really depends on your expectations and experiences. If you have lived in places like Paris, NYC or in some Swiss cities then Seoul will seem cheap to you. While I was living in Seoul, it didnt seem that expensive to me while taking into consideration how freaking crammed it was tbh.

Plus you have to rethink how many Koreans live. They dont live their life at home for the most part. The big cities in Korea are all about being outside, most people dont actually spend that much time in their apartment. Its very different to here in Europe. At least pre covid. Thats why many of them dont even have the feeling that they need such big apartments.

If you would live your life in Europe the way Koreans do in Korea, going out, eating out as often, going to cafes, damn you would go broke really freaking fast. Even getting from one place to another ended up being really cheap in Korea because public transportation in Europe is really freaking expensive in comparison.

So it really depends on your needs and what you value more. If you want to live a comfortable life and spend more time at home, then Korea is not for you.

I also would not want to grow old in Korea and maybe also not live there if I belong to the lower class whos getting paid crap. Then yes Korea will fuck you up way more than Europe.

But if I want to live fast and see stuff in my younger days? I would definitely rather be in Korea believe me.

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Am i the only that notice even though korea is a rich country, the people are still having a worst quality of life than some less richer country?

this is one of the conversation that I've had with my malaysian friends who moved to korea to work as an engineer but she said that her quality of life took a huge dips after moving to there.

This is not about money, but it's the ways everything is in korea.

Most of korean houses have a very odd layout that doesnt really make sense and its very small! For the amount of money that south koreans earn, they still live in a very small cubicle of a box that they call house.

she said that it's weird that some korean literally have a space enough for a tiny room but they call it a house . These houses doesnt come cheap either.

secondly is the air quality, This is my personal experience.. Ive been to vietnam and the air quality was so bad that it's not recommended for anybody to do an outside activity.

Ive checked and the air quality in korea is actually worst than vietnam lol. My friend even said that it doesn't matter how hard she work to clean the dust, the next couple hours, her house will still be full of dust. the dust is actually very visible. aka its very dusty.

its probably unhealthy to live in the long run.

and she said that the internet in korea is slower than in her home country lol.

well she basically said that everything is better there, idk if shes bias but if i really think about it...

its kind of true, idk korean pls dont ban me from your country.

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Okay:

1. houses owners are being surpressed by great companies like lotte or samsung that are buying whole buildings. So the prices are being raised. Also seoul (for an example) is so fucking crowded space is a rare good.

2. air quality:

3 times a year, for a few weeks there is a cloud of radioactive sanddust from china, sweeping over SK. She might talk about this, otherwise the air is better in autum and spring.

3. SK has the fasted internet there is.

If she has trouble with internet then probably cause she uses free wifi or pocket wifi.

4. we won't ban you. Lol But you need to make your own expiriences i think to judge how it really is. And also you need to understand the culture and the way we are living to get the big picture.

Living in korea is definitrlly not a fairytale, but it's not thr worst either.

Yes, the internet claim doesn't really make much sense

95% of the population use internet, and they have among the highest average speed in the world, paying about 30usd for it which is nothing really for speeds over 100mbit, at least not if compared to other western countries that i know of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_South_Korea

https://www.publicknowledge.or…-for-a-cheaper-price-tag/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…nternet_connection_speeds

I mean i could see someone having problem if they are using some public wifi or something