let's talk
pepe's walk
or 
btw song starts at 1:53, that thang earlier is just intro for MAMA purposes
U+Me=LOVE was the song they should’ve released, followed by Snake.
Display Morelet's talk
pepe's walk
btw song starts at 1:53, that thang earlier is just intro for MAMA purposes
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imo
i wish they stuck to the Wa Da Da sound 
its my fave song from them
Up gives me a headace ( sorry guys 
)
and We Fresh is Messy
there isnt a stable concept
between little to no vocalists, lots of rappers
the voices dont blend super well ( minus Wa Da Da and MVSK)
so they are having concept chrsis 
I don’t think they’re the group for this sound - they’re not fierce enough. The biggest problem with this group is the lack of identity. Other rookie groups have established clear sounds and styles while they keep jumping from concept to concept.
Wa Da Da was a definite grower and MVSK was great from jump but then they’ve sort of run around after a whole bunch of different styles and sounds and looks. Their vocals aren’t strong but that’s okay, there are many in the pack that don’t have strong vocals either but they have a consistency in style and song choice that makes them easy to identify.
I love that song, but it's also typically the kind of girl crush/noise/whatever music that fans like to bash day in day out. So I'm doubtful it should be the route to take for success.
The problem is, many people say the group lacks an identity, this sound or that concept doesn't suit them; but they never mention what the group should do. Kep1er did Up earlier this year and it was nothing like The Girls; but for some reason, nope that was not the right thing to do. So they seem kinda stuck in a corner where whatever they do, it's never good or fitting enough.
U+Me=LOVE was the song they should’ve released, followed by Snake.
I agree those 2 songs would have been amazing (even Shoot! and Utopia too)
And it would seem weird that the Creation Mission songs are of a higher standard than Kep1er's actual title songs. (Generic cookie cutter concept, but musically airtight)
And also previous Produce groups songs feel like they're of a higher standard.
But I don't think the standards for Kep1er's titles are necessarily lower, of course they are trying just as hard with them. They are really polished and I am sure the producers want badly for them to be widely appealing, but it's like they are producing them with a certain different style which is not as widely appealing.
Produce/GP999 theme songs and original tracks - they were both musically solid, and felt like something new that you haven't heard before, seemingly perfect songs
IOI, Wanna One, Iz*One, X1 - they had debuts or titles that both sounded good and felt like something new and interesting (musically and visually), seemingly almost perfect songs (in IOI's case considering VVV as their "real debut")
* For example La Vie En Rose. Not only the song, but the concept was also beautiful and unique
Kep1er - their songs are solid, their visuals are polished, and WDD and Up! are virtually perfect to me. But why aren't they as widely accepted the Produce groups, why do many dislike all their titles?
Some reasons why:
I really think LVER, Flash, Wa Da Da are all pretty ok debut songs and WDD doesn't lack behind that much. But maybe the reason why WDD is not perceived as so untouchable of a song is because a. it doesn't have as much showing off and b. their concepts seems more generic and it makes the song look less interesting too.
And also C. maybe just cause Kep1er is not that famous and they're not seen as an icon. They aren't really worse it's just they look lacking if you compare them to Produce groups. Like Iz*one's Fiesta and Sstos weren't super amazing either (and kind of comparable to Up! and We Fresh) but it's just that Iz*one was already famous before then and had already established a reputation with 2 songs that were pretty good before then.
Display MoreI agree those 2 songs would have been amazing (even Shoot! and Utopia too)
And it would seem weird that the Creation Mission songs are of a higher standard than Kep1er's actual title songs. (Generic cookie cutter concept, but musically airtight)
And also previous Produce groups songs feel like they're of a higher standard.
But I don't think the standards for Kep1er's titles are necessarily lower, of course they are trying just as hard with them. They are really polished and I am sure the producers want badly for them to be widely appealing, but it's like they are producing them with a certain different style which is not as widely appealing.
Produce/GP999 theme songs and original tracks - they were both musically solid, and felt like something new that you haven't heard before, seemingly perfect songs
IOI, Wanna One, Iz*One, X1 - they had debuts or titles that both sounded good and felt like something new and interesting (musically and visually), seemingly almost perfect songs (in IOI's case considering VVV as their "real debut")
* For example La Vie En Rose. Not only the song, but the concept was also beautiful and unique
Kep1er - their songs are solid, their visuals are polished, and WDD and Up! are virtually perfect to me. But why aren't they as widely accepted the Produce groups, why do many dislike all their titles?
Some reasons why:
- Produce groups were seen as stacked in talent and in their songs, they would show off this talent with the best vocalists of the show doing high notes, impressing choreography or long raps. On the other hand if there were any amazing talents in Kep1er you wouldn't know it because their debut is extremely polished but doesn't have high notes, particularly impressive choreography, or much rapping. There's not as much showing off of the so called amazing trainees that made it to the final group.
- Compared to Iz*One, Kep1er doesn't do as impressive high notes or ad-libs (vocal showing off).
- Admittedly, the GGs that came out of Produce didn't have anyone focused on rap or much rap showcase in their songs either. But IOI is known for a iconic dance in VVV, Iz*one has 12 members and impressive formations, Kep1er has nothing standing out in their dance. (I mean I think the chorus and O.O.O dance in WDD are pretty iconic, but maybe since they aren't as popular as IOI and IZ*ONE, it just isn't as famous?)
- Maybe Kep1er's concepts and visual style are seen as more generic, and not "innovative", so this makes their songs seem more basic too by association.
- MVs might be expensive but aren't visually interesting.
- We Fresh/Troubleshooter concept seemed to have potential but it makes no sense, the visuals are a mess between guns/katanas/racer and there's nothing defining it.
- Up! was cohesive and creative but maybe summer just seems too generic of an idea so people still weren't impressed. Up! was way better than We Fresh though
- Some people thought WDD was a cheap video? (I don't agree)
- contrast IZ*ONE had their flower thing that only they did, and was seen as artful and sophisticated. Very Very Very's video was obviously creative.
- Admittedly, Flash is not that much more creative or impressive than Kep1er's WDD though (Flash tried to form a unique identity with the butterfly symbol, Kep1er - space, orbiting, O.O.O dance).
- Kep1er's songs seen as generic and not interesting. I don't really agree with this cause I don't think they are far below the songs on GP999 (ex. compare Up! and Rollin' Rollin' from PD48, or WDD and the Produce theme songs, I really don't think they are that much less interesting or worse)
I really think LVER, Flash, Wa Da Da are all pretty ok debut songs and WDD doesn't lack behind that much. But maybe the reason why WDD is not perceived as so untouchable of a song is because a. it doesn't have as much showing off and b. their concepts seems more generic and it makes the song look less interesting too.
And also C. maybe just cause Kep1er is not that famous and they're not seen as an icon. They aren't really worse it's just they look lacking if you compare them to Produce groups. Like Iz*one's Fiesta and Sstos weren't super amazing either (and kind of comparable to Up! and We Fresh) but it's just that Iz*one was already famous before then and had already established a reputation with 2 songs that were pretty good before then.
- HOWEVER if you compare fromis_9 to produce groups they won't seem lacking because they are unique and have a lot of good songs that are in the same theme/niche. Even 3-song fromis_9 seems better than 3-song Kep1er (Maybe?)
- Iz*One wasn't seen as that amazing with 2 songs either but idk maybe they just seemed more legit than Kep1er cause they made 2 songs with a similar idea
- So maybe in the end Kep1er is no less legit just ppl can't get into them (unlike Fromis and IZONE) because they didn't make 2 songs with the same concept?
Okay I actually really want to respond to everything you wrote here because so many good points were made LOL
Display Moreimo
i wish they stuck to the Wa Da Da sound
its my fave song from them
Up gives me a headace ( sorry guys
and We Fresh is Messy
there isnt a stable concept
between little to no vocalists, lots of rappers
the voices dont blend super well ( minus Wa Da Da and MVSK)
so they are having concept chrsis
I don’t think they’re the group for this sound - they’re not fierce enough. The biggest problem with this group is the lack of identity. Other rookie groups have established clear sounds and styles while they keep jumping from concept to concept.
Wa Da Da was a definite grower and MVSK was great from jump but then they’ve sort of run around after a whole bunch of different styles and sounds and looks. Their vocals aren’t strong but that’s okay, there are many in the pack that don’t have strong vocals either but they have a consistency in style and song choice that makes them easy to identify.
I love that song, but it's also typically the kind of girl crush/noise/whatever music that fans like to bash day in day out. So I'm doubtful it should be the route to take for success.
The problem is, many people say the group lacks an identity, this sound or that concept doesn't suit them; but they never mention what the group should do. Kep1er did Up earlier this year and it was nothing like The Girls; but for some reason, nope that was not the right thing to do. So they seem kinda stuck in a corner where whatever they do, it's never good or fitting enough.
About their concept and sound not being established, ik it's a common thing people say. But I think Kep1er's sounds and concepts have been all been in a similar place soundwise since debut, (perhaps i would describe their brand like bright and energetic, similar to Twice or NiziU), and only look different visually (like Stayc. I think WDD -> Up! -> We Fresh is comparable to So Bad -> ASAP -> Stereotype or Run2U and no one thinks Stayc is inconsistent with their concept)
However if their brand looks or seems inconsistent to a lot of people, just on instinct (without trying to think about their concept super carefully). Then that is an equal problem as it actually being inconsistent. (just like the MVs might not be cheap and the songs may do a lot of new things, but if they SEEM cheap or generic by public perception that is a problem.)
About MVSK. I really think MVSK is not that great its just not risky. but also not interesting. I mean the song has a beat and does nothing wrong
Okay I actually really want to respond to everything you wrote here because so many good points were made LOL
I am tired now. But anyway the original thing was about why are the songs from the GP999 show somehow better than Kep1er's actual songs? I was thinking about why and I think Kep1er's songs aren't that much worse than GP999 original songs or Produce groups songs, but maybe it's cause they lack A. showing off of vocals or talents (something present by necessity in the mission/evaluation songs, and also present in IOI/Iz*One songs with their main vocals), and B. visual interest/innovation in their concepts/MVs compared to Produce groups.
So maybe their songs are just as solid, but just aren't seen as solid because they don't seem impressive or creative enough.
Or oppositely, maybe their songs are really just generic, and even if the concept was cooler, had more adlibs/high notes, and a more iconic dance: they still wouldn't be seen as good just on the basis of the songs.
About their concept and sound not being established, ik it's a common thing people say. But I think Kep1er's sounds and concepts have been all been in a similar place soundwise since debut, (perhaps i would describe their brand like bright and energetic, similar to Twice or NiziU), and only look different visually (like Stayc. I think WDD -> Up! -> We Fresh is comparable to So Bad -> ASAP -> Stereotype or Run2U and no one thinks Stayc is inconsistent with their concept)
However if their brand looks or seems inconsistent to a lot of people, just on instinct (without trying to think about their concept super carefully). Then that is an equal problem as it actually being inconsistent. (just like the MVs might not be cheap and the songs may do a lot of new things, but if they SEEM cheap or generic by public perception that is a problem.)
About MVSK. I really think MVSK is not that great its just not risky. but also not interesting. I mean the song has a beat and does nothing wrong
i also dont like MVSK as well
but i see your point 
About their concept and sound not being established, ik it's a common thing people say. But I think Kep1er's sounds and concepts have been all been in a similar place soundwise since debut, (perhaps i would describe their brand like bright and energetic, similar to Twice or NiziU), and only look different visually (like Stayc. I think WDD -> Up! -> We Fresh is comparable to So Bad -> ASAP -> Stereotype or Run2U and no one thinks Stayc is inconsistent with their concept)
However if their brand looks or seems inconsistent to a lot of people, just on instinct (without trying to think about their concept super carefully). Then that is an equal problem as it actually being inconsistent. (just like the MVs might not be cheap and the songs may do a lot of new things, but if they SEEM cheap or generic by public perception that is a problem.)
About MVSK. I really think MVSK is not that great its just not risky. but also not interesting. I mean the song has a beat and does nothing wrong
Great points!!!!! Your original post above is stacked with details and it's so in-depth, but I wanna respond to this lol
I think this is true to some extent, that brands and concepts don't have to be consistent and when they aren't people say lack of identity. Like snsd always changed their concept and nobody said they were lacking identity. But I think Kepler are different in the fact they're obviously trying to find their niche with their visuals.
Which is a shame because their best shot is literally in their name Kepler. The 'space' concept (it barely was but...) in their debut was kind of cool, and I thought they were gonna expand on that and have a more magical/space concept, something like lalalalalilala era april or dreams come true era wjsn. But it seems like the company didn't want to focus on that despite it's commercial success.
Now they're stuck doing shit that kinda makes them blend into the crowd. Up is great musically and I like the concept as well but they were on concept gold with the space concept, nobody's doing the space concept right now! And now with we fresh with a, uh, teen crush concept??? It's forgettable. They had their identity, but they lost it unfrotunately.
That's how I see it though.
And disagree, MVSK is pretty ambitous with how it uses its beats and structure. But it's just my opinion
respected 
I was a predebut stans from Gp999 and stop stanning after their second cb. I just very disappointed with their discography. I don't like any of them including mvsk, attention, the girls, and all their bside that the fandom said really good than their TT, sadly. I tried to give the group many chances, I even follow their recent cb too to see if they might improve. What a waste when all their songs during Gp999 including o.o.o were all good.
To answer your question, I think nope. They will be like the typical girl crush gg, and other groups already fill that spot. Tbh, they will not fits in any concept at all at this point. Their members just not really cohesive, some suits other concept and some are not, so they will always members who look awkward at every concept they tried.
Now that I think of it, I feel like people call the group directionless only because Kep1er is not stomping charts. Therefore they're not feeling good supporting the group. It's not rewarding enough.
Are WA DA DA, Up and We Fresh really that much different from each other? Are they really more different than Fearless and Antifragile? For sure fans don't seem bothered by the change between LSRF's debut and first comeback. Why? Because gp likes it so they don't feel there's something wrong. And that's the bottom line.
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