Will there be a clear cut victor of the 4th Generation? I don't see it

does there need to be a victor?

There can only be 1!

Ygngg will emerge victorious

Quote from WhyKnock

In the old days eventually there was only one major act which led the entire generation

that is only for 3rd gen

Quote from jinaland

that is only for 3rd gen

Nah, second gen was the same, SNDS eventually came on top, like BP did for 3rd.

I am not sure about the 1st, I do not know how dominant S.E.S. was.

H.O.T was dominant in 1st gen.

Not sure about Second Gen for boys.

BTS obviously eventually dominated both 3rd and 4th gen, like BP in he GGs.

For second gen, why is everyone forgetting Bigbang? You could argue that they were just as big as IU before enlistment.

Quote from WhyKnock

1st Gen - HOT

2nd Gen - TVXQ then SNSD

3rd Gen - EXO then BTS (and now BP)

One act basically dominated everything. (Lee Jieun is generally not counted for 'domination' since her influence was always limited to Korea.)

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

Nah, second gen was the same, SNDS eventually came on top, like BP did for 3rd.

I am not sure about the 1st, I do not know how dominant S.E.S. was.

H.O.T was dominant in 1st gen.

Not sure about Second Gen for boys.

BTS obviously eventually dominated both 3rd and 4th gen, like BP in he GGs.

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these acts didn't completely dominate as BTS and BP did.

they all had strong contenders that dominate them in other fields.

TVXQ and SNSD easily loses to BigBang, 2ne1, Sistar etc in digitals. BigBang and 2ne1 had the edge in the west as they have toured in america and europe. Peaked higher on bb 200 etc. Also BigBang has massive touring numbers.

idk about 1st gen

Quote from jinaland

these acts didn't completely dominate as BTS and BP did.

they all had strong contenders that dominate them in other fields.

TVXQ and SNSD easily loses to BigBang, 2ne1, Sistar etc in digitals. BigBang and 2ne1 had the edge in the west as they have toured in america and europe. Peaked higher on bb 200 etc. Also BigBang has massive touring numbers.

idk about 1st gen

But you can pick number like that for everything.

BigBang > BTS in China.

Twice > Black Pink in Japan.

SNSD was as dominant in the 2nd generation market as BP is now (the traditional kpop market back then), the only difference is that kpop is a lot more international now, that helps BTS and BP get massive support outside the traditional Asian kpop markets.

Wonder girls also went to America, in the 2nd gen time, America was not the money maker for kpop that it is today.

Today Even Loona is touring and making money in the USA.

No there weren't clear cut winners in any generation.

Neither can you arbitrarily exclude Korea.

For SNSD, Both 2NE1 and Sistar were tough competition.

BP and Twice, never did let the other dominate entirely.

Perhaps only among BGs, did BTS had 2-3 years of clear distance ahead of the pack.

But thrown in IU, then the digital dominance wasn't exclusive to them either,

So it is good that there is no clear cut domination, then more music to the fans

But yes, HYBE debuting 2 GGs concurrently, 2 BGs very close to each other etc. is a new dynamic.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

But you can pick number like that for everything.

BigBang > BTS in China.

Twice > Black Pink in Japan.

SNSD was as dominant in the 2nd generation market as BP is now (the traditional kpop market back then), the only difference is that kpop is a lot more international now, that helps BTS and BP get massive support outside the traditional Asian kpop markets.

Wonder girls also went to America, in the 2nd gen time, America was not the money maker for kpop that it is today.

Today Even Loona is touring and making money in the USA.

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BigBang and BTS are from different generations so not the comparison here

In 3rd gen BTS were bigger than everyone in every metric. No group in 2nd gen was like that, so no clear cut victor. BP now dominates Twice everywhere else besides Japan. That's huge gap compared to SNSD vs 2ne1.

Back in the day, western market much harder to break into so charting and touring there is huge achievement even though it may be normal thing now.

Quote from bbgc

No there weren't clear cut winners in any generation.

Neither can you arbitrarily exclude Korea.

For SNSD, Both 2NE1 and Sistar were tough competition.

BP and Twice, never did let the other dominate entirely.

Perhaps only among BGs, did BTS had 2-3 years of clear distance ahead of the pack.

But thrown in IU, then the digital dominance wasn't exclusive to them either,

So it is good that there is no clear cut domination, then more music to the fans

But yes, HYBE debuting 2 GGs concurrently, 2 BGs very close to each other etc. is a new dynamic.

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yes this is what i am saying

but i say bts and bp were clear cut winners in bgs and ggs tho, they have more gap with the others

Quote from jinaland

yes this is what i am saying

but i say bts and bp were clear cut winners in bgs and ggs tho, they have more gap with the others

No, they don't.

To claim complete clear cut dominance, they have to be so in Korea and other markets, in digitals as well as physicals, GG/BG/Solo notwithstanding.

BTS comes the closest, but even they didn't dominate Korean Digitals exclusively.

BP not even that.

Only if you split off Korea or other markets, physicals and digitals separated, categorize separately as GG, BG and not groups.

Then you can have these top acts having clear cut domination in one aspect or another.

But nobody is the dominator of all aspects.

Maybe not during 2nd gen but it’s clear that SNSD and BB are the biggest from their generation even if they were lacking in some areas.

We will have to wait years to find who’s really the most successful group.

Quote from WhyKnock

The proliferation of acts from Hybe itself appears to be the cause that there will not be any clear cut front runner among the 4th Gen of KPoppers.

The reason is Hybe won't really want a clear front runner but will want to compete its acts against each other, like these AKB and -zaka acts in Japan competing against each other.

Which means, unlike the old days where there was just one, or at most two, front runners leading KPop and everyone else following, there will not be a clear winner. Unlike SM, which pushed TVXQ and suppressed Super Junior and Shinee, pushed EXO and suppressed Red Velvet and so forth, Hybe will let Act A win Grand Prize this year, Act B next year, and so on. For Mr. Bang, every act he owns is kinda the same, and other that BTS which he developed himself, he will probably treat his other acts with some degree of equality.

That means it won't be very likely for an act to completely dominate a generation since other acts will take that into advantage and continue to carve their niches.

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doesn't look bad

Quote from WhyKnock

Actually, if an act dominates about 60-70% of all categories, it can safely be called domination

Usually Korean digitals are excluded from this discussion because Lee Jieun has a natural superiority over it. But, even in 2021 when Lee Jieun clearly overshadowed BTS in Korean digitals (the most viewed video in Korea on 2021 was from Lee Jieun), no one said BTS did not dominate. Instead its domination made Korean digitals irrelevant. Let IU/LYW/some act they don't give a crap about have the Korean digitals and let BTS rule the world.

The new acts dominant in Melon might change the equation.

Never seen one post contain so much Inconsistency.

60-70% of ALL categories, but Korean digitals excluded, because of the person who dominated it IU, does not fit this narrative.

Usually.. No.. It is just you who 'unusually' excludes Korean digitals. BTW IU is in the top 10 of Spotify K-pop acts too.

So since BTS did not dominate one category, it became irrelevant

But now that there are new acts doing well on Melon, Korean digitals are relevant again?

You should be a journalist for some Woke Leftist rag, to twist things so much to fit your narratives.

Quote from WhyKnock

In the old days eventually there was only one major act which led the entire generation

But turns out they are struggling to fight that one person.

Back then people only choosing from 2 option, the current top leader of kpop or the Lilac Singer.

It's a battle with 50:50

But, that tactics don't do well, and Hybe realizing this. And so they release many acts and making it like there are so many to choose and stans for where actually its all hybe (illusion of choice). They trying to spread people's attention, and increasing their chance, making it not only 50:50 anymore, but making it like 60:40 (30:30:40) or even 80:20 (20:30:30:20)

Maybe you should create a thread talking about that hybe is the only company that actively battling that one person untill now her real nemesis

Quote from WhyKnock

Actually, if an act dominates about 60-70% of all categories, it can safely be called domination

Usually Korean digitals are excluded from this discussion because Lee Jieun has a natural superiority over it. But, even in 2021 when Lee Jieun clearly overshadowed BTS in Korean digitals (the most viewed video in Korea on 2021 was from Lee Jieun), no one said BTS did not dominate. Instead its domination made Korean digitals irrelevant. Let IU/LYW/some act they don't give a crap about have the Korean digitals and let BTS rule the world.

The new acts dominant in Melon might change the equation.

Look papa, I ranked first in all subjects this time

Whyknock's Dad: That's cool, .. But wait a minute, what about math?

WK: That doesn't count, because I didn't ace it.

It will count next time, when I actually come first in it. Ignore it until then.

~~~~

Did I access a childhood memory?

Quote from WhyKnock

I would define 'domination' as 'nothing gets past me'.

There are other countries besides USA, but except for some brief periods by some countries nothing eventually gets past USA. That is domination.

A few people, the most notorious of them gracing the left and bottom of this post, never recognized the domination of a single act. But that does not mean the domination did not exist. Basically if ones domination is kinda acknowledged in most of the board it is domination

Its not domination when can make argument. Its not domination when others were doing as equally. If ure definition of domination is just cherry picking achievements that fits your narratives and say A is top then thats not it. Domination is being at whole other tier than evert others.

Quote from WhyKnock

More like Classical Chinese, Classical Japanese or Latin, some arcane subject which was important a long time ago but is only taught because of cultural reasons. I don't even think the public (which means private) schools in England , attended by the elites, teach Latin anymore.

Melon is still a good indicator within Korea but its importance fell off, which is why Lim Youngwoong's fans menace youtube music as well.

After spotify became dominant around the world, the Melon title became something which is good to have but not very essential.

And even if we consider all of them, BtS did dominate the digitals in 2019 and 2020, and only in 2021 Lee Jieun overtook it because it only released 2 or 3 digital songs while she released I think 15.

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Nope it is Math.

It is physicals, that would be an anachronistic subject.

Korea matters because it is the home ground. No act or sporting team which wins only in away games and never at home, will be called dominant and the other way as well.

And again no, 2019/20 - Love Poem holds multiple honours, 2 #1s, PAKs, longevity etc. Even if you exclude Eight which you will claim as thanks to Suga.

And whether they released or not, is irrevelent. If they wanted dominance, then they should have released.

Which means unlike you, acts don't think in terms of dominance. They are happy if they sell well. That's all

From my experience & observation over the years based on kpop markert at that time:

( ------ ) means there was no domination, too many group perform at similar level (2016 BG & 2015 GG) or just flat out empty (2022 BG).

Quote from WhyKnock

This list is a good one ... in 2012 Psy , a soloist, did overshadow everyone else, but other than that it is a pertinent list

Whereas the overshadowing by another soloist in more than one of these years, will remain unmentioned ..

relax, it just started

Quote from WhyKnock

IF IU is included, other than 2012, 2015, 2016 and 2018, she would have topped the female category, making accurate comparison impossible

Just the female category?

Another score card to keep in mind

Quote from WhyKnock

IF IU is included, other than 2012, 2015, 2016 and 2018, she would have topped the female category, making accurate comparison impossible

she has a strong claim to 2015 too tbh lol

Quote from redcurtain

she has a strong claim to 2015 too tbh lol

Among females/GGs - yes. But overall Bigbang absolutely dominated 2015.

Frankly, I don't think IU needs to be matched only with women or soloists.

Even by overall rankings - 2011, 2014, 2017 and 2021 - she dominated the charts.

And in 2015, 2020 - 2nd to Bigbang and BTS.

Here is a picture of Gaon digitals top 100 most consumed each year for the top 5 - GGs, BGs and Non-Groups. 2010-2021

pasted-from-clipboard.png

Quote from bbgc

Among females/GGs - yes. But overall Bigbang absolutely dominated 2015.

Frankly, I don't think IU needs to be matched only with women or soloists.

Even by overall rankings - 2011, 2014, 2017 and 2021 - she dominated the charts.

And in 2015, 2020 - 2nd to Bigbang and BTS.

Here is a picture of Gaon digitals top 100 most consumed each year for the top 5 - GGs, BGs and Non-Groups. 2010-2021

pasted-from-clipboard.png

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yeah I was just talking about female artists. Although Taeyeon had a great year too. Overall, Big Bang obliterated everyone digitally and EXO likewise physically (at the time).