Posts by FoReveries

Quote from momamae

There's a lot more to it. You can check on the ADOR - HYBE Mega Thread, the summary is on the 1st page

Thread

ADOR - HYBE Mega Thread - Chapter 10 || Summary on page 1

If this thread is tl;dr for you (which it is) ...

Original news broken by @soshixbang


REMINDER

I know its frustrating that others do not see things the way you do, but I'd like to remind everyone that this is not a battle and you are not soldiers. You are debating an issue on a forum board. Having different opinions should not bleed into threats or accusations of serious -isms. I think you know what those are, but if you need a refresher, here are the rules. On such a hot button issue, please…

Ves

Feb 25th 2024

Thanks! I started on the Min Heejin interview article, haven't read it through entirely (it's a LOT!) - but the impressions I got from what I read, is that Bang Si-Hyuk managed to recruit MHJ when she was vulnerable, after she just quit SM, with the promise that MHJ would launch HYBE's first original girl group.

Then, as time progressed, strategies and ideas changed, and HYBE CEO's decided they wanted to debut Le Sserafim first, while still making use of the hype and buzz created by MHJ's involvement. Then, after this, relationships between HYBE CEO's and MHJ gradually deteriorated more and more: this Park Jiwon and Bang Si-Hyuk acted like typical CEO's as CEO's always do, 'it's my way or the high way', and started to make moves to get rid of MHJ and create a backup alternative girl group to NewJeans, Illit.

From what I see, Hybe or at least Bang Si-Hyuk needed MHJ to have her create a girl group for them and learn the tricks for this from her, using her expertise. As soon as MHJ became too difficult as an employee, and they'd learned enough to create girl groups confidently, they started to look for ways to get rid of her or at the least assume absolute control.

But, I haven't read up on the rest of all the drama yet, maybe there's some more angles to this

To the question in the OP, while I agree with a number of reasons people already mentioned, I also think it isn't always a 'bad faith' move, or on purpose. I think it's also often an 'I/we know better' or a 'let's try this first' of the management vs idols' opinions, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Let's be fair, idols' opinions and ideas aren't always better even if it's about their own career - I recall Taeyeon saying she disliked 'Gee' and didn't think it would become a hit when the company switched from 'Dancing Queen' to 'Gee' - yet it became the song that launched SNSD into the stratosphere.

Same for netizens and K-pop fans, it's easy to be armchair generals or say in hindsight 'the company should have done this or that better' - everyone can be truthtelling prophets, in hindsight. But how many times have K-pop fans predicted a song was a flop and bad move and a group has become a flop - only for that song to become a monster hit or that group to rise up and become extremely popular and successful?

Company people can be wrong, idols can be wrong, netizens and K-pop fans can be wrong.

I also think that it's a matter of resource limits and core strengths of each company. Due to limited resources in money and available supporting talent, companies need to decide what group should get focus first and get access to those resources, and decide how to spend those for maximum effect.

This may run against the inbuilt limitations and weaknesses of a company.

For example, SM simply doesn't have the expertise, connections and networking structure for international/western expansion, even if they want to and try to for their groups. Which makes it harder for SM to make their groups grow outside Asia, at least harder than other companies. Fans might pull out their hairs about the many missed international opportunities of their groups - but it's not as if that's SM's strength.

And YG, for years, YG has had its entire organisational structure built around having their groups' songs not be bought but be produced only inhouse by a few genius composers/songwriters, and only the highest quality was acceptable. But this production and brand building philosophy has the weakness your song and album production will be inconsistent and comebacks sparse - fans might complain to high heavens about the long hiatuses of their groups, but YG's way of producing songs simply can't deliver more due to its limited capacity.

Quote from killingtime1934

in sm case, they never EVER want the idol to be bigger than the company or the group

? I think you're talking about JYPE where the whole 'Suzy bigger than Miss A' affair has traumatised JYP and his people so much that they decided to never ever let the idol get bigger than the group again.

As for SM, I don't see it: Yoona was bigger than the group when she had tv show super hit and started to be IT girl, and so far SM always seems to be pushing the most popular member at a time to get even bigger, providing more opportunities, gigs, CFs etc.

Which makes sense, if it helps a member, then it helps the group too - unless it grows into a Suzy vs Miss A situation, but that won't happen every time.

Maybe the first question is, would IOI have done better than Mamamoo and GFriend in the long run?

It's amazing that aside from TWICE, BP, RV, it gets hard to think of other successful 3rd gen groups aside from Mamamoo and GFriend, that shows how thin the 3rd gen lineup actually had been compared with other gens.

Not sure how IOI would have done in the long run, but one thing is for sure: Somi's career and popularity would have been a whole lot better than it is these days.

Quote from momamae

I double checked the thread date to be sure it wasn't from a year ago lol The OP took me back in time, before all the mayhem went down. Magnetic is really great!

Yeah, I'm a bit late

I even missed all the mayhem apparently, I'm guessing it's the Illit-Newjeans controversy and HYBE-Ador's MHJ fighting where Illit got dragged into?

Quote from RVRene

I know this is a two year old thread but I just wanted to reply with some receipts. When old fans say Irene is mistreated, they mean her specifically and not Red Velvet. While RV itself faces mistreatment, Irene experiences it even more.

"The list of Red Velvet career-long(until now) solo/collab projects
©️SlytheRene"

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【P1】variety show（longer-term）
【P2】film and television
【P3】music"

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Whenever you saw Irene worked with brands, remember those brands sought her out because of her popularity, not because of SM. These brands are usually major names so SM couldn’t afford to miss out on the profits.

And now this
"Why Irene can't have photos or props in a fan meeting, but other members can?"
2025.03.21
https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view?id=irene&no=723568

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Not sure what's happening here, I don't read Korean. But if a manager is forbidding Irene to have photos or props, then I think that manager or those managers if it's more than 1 are going too far: at this point the RV members have been in the business for more than 10 years, they're grown adults and some even in their '30s, they can decide for themselves what they want to do when and don't deserve to be treated as kids who're not allowed to have their own opinion and freedom.

As for the mistreating, I don't know if Irene is treated worse than the others or not. But seeing how she just had her solo debut and will have her sub-unit comeback with Seulgi in a few months, I'd say that she's getting proper attention and resources from the company.

If anything, I'd say that it's Joy and especially Yeri are being neglected or forgotten when it comes to personal opportunities and promotion.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

The group as a whole is stable and technically good, and they have 2 great vocalists with 1 pretty good one.

Lily is arguably the best vocalist in the gen. Haewon is also good, but I think Lily is a large reason they are hyped vocally. Without her, it would probably be hard to say they are better than Aespa.

I think Lily could probably stand toe to toe with most 2nd gen and 3rd gen vocal lines. For Haewon, it would depend on the vocalist.

Quote from 2PS1

i considered adding them but with the recent member changes I didn't. I think the OG group had nice vocals, not too familiar with the new members.

I think they are, they have the two best 4th gen vocalists in Lily and Haewon, not sure who would be third. For third gen i think RV and Mamamoo likey clear them at the moment. Wendy and Hwasa are the goats. But I think Nmixx can still get better, they're still very young.

Oh, I wasn't aware that Lily was that good! That makes her better than the main vocalists of many other groups.

' group of the year' on Billboard, 'artist of the year' on vmaj.

I knew Aespa had a great year, but I didn't know it was this fantastic! Well done, Aespa

I also noticed, the members' visuals already looked very good, but seems like their visuals upgraded to even higher levels lately, all the members look even more stunning in the various shoots and photo covers the past month.

Wow, almost 600k and the first week isn't even over. Impressive!

Not sure how Magnetic compares with previous hit songs, but it sounds great!

On second thought, Cheer Up launched TWICE's popularity into the stratosphere, did Magnetic the same for Illit? If not, then it's not on the same level.

I can always appreciate an interesting choreo performance, that looked great

Are Nmixx really that good? How do they compare to 2nd gen and 3rd gen vocal lines and vocalists, where would they be ranked?

Whoa, interesting list, a number of songs I'd never even heard of, but do sound interesting reading the description. Thanks!

Quote from SooYoung

Magnetic is such a BIG BOP i don't know how you missed it for 1 year

when everybody have been talking about Illit for so long

Quote from Fearnot-Once

mate... that was quite literally the most popular gg song last year LMAO

(i mean its good.. luckily it seems like you haven't gotten addicted to tiktok yet )

Quote from monalisalove

It's a huuuuuuge viral song like even out of kpop that song was everywhere!

I just use instagram, but last year out of 10 reels I saw, 5 or 6 had Magnetic in the background and I'm not joking, it was everywhere. It's the perfect song for aesthetic imo, a really really nice song.

I KNOW!! How could I have missed it?  

I mean, there were enough threads about Illit, but like with so many debuts and comebacks, 'oh, I should check out their debut song, later on' and then it got on the to-do pile and forgotten - like GD's recent comeback songs, Babymonster's debut, GFriends return (?) and so many other songs I still need to catch up with

But I really like the vibe of songs like Magnetic, Ditto and The Chase, they all feel so chill and smooth while still having a catchy, compelling beat. Not sure if that particular subgenre or style of music has a name, but I sure will try to see if there are other songs that have a similar vibe

While I browsed this forum, I encountered one of many songs I hadn't listened to before, out of curiosity and because I had some time I checked out the MV and

stunned this is great! I'm neutral on the MV, but the song is an instant playlist add.

It reminds me somewhat of Newjeans and H2H's The Chase, same sort of genre or vibe in the sound, but I like it!

... which makes me wonder, how many bops are still left undiscovered in the gigantic pile of K-pop releases during the times I'm less K-pop focused? I need more hours in a day

Regarding JYP, aren't there any plans for a new girl group? It has been a while since their last one, NMIXX and aren't they the only Big 4 company without a 5th gen girl group right now?

Not sure what went wrong with Itzy and NMIXX except maybe wrong choices, but for TWICE I think that the loss of BEP as their main composer/songwriter was the biggest cause for a drop in their Korean digital charting. This combined with a redirected focus towards international promotion and western success, led to a decreasing presence of TWICE in SK.

Quote from SooYoung

My choice will directly go to Aespa easily cuz i would think OK this girl have something, they have charisma and i want to see what they do musically

Looking at this picture, and recalling Aespa's concepts and styles since debut, SM (or Lee Sooman?) really went out of their way to create something different as Aespa's theme and concept. Aside from the SMCU virtual reality that was questionable in terms of successful execution (and abandoned after LSM's leaving), Aespa had a girl crush-ish concept that was a different flavor from the usual girl crush: more like cyber(punk) crush, or hitech crush.

In the end, looks like it has worked for them.

Great episode, I loved the energy between the two

Also nice to hear some anecdotes from the past - Seulgi has also been around since 2nd gen times - and was a surprise to learn that Winter was Seulgi's bestie these days

Since Seulgi mentioned she loves to take care of the younger artists under SM as an 'older sister', I'm curious to see her interactions with H2H members.

I haven't really been following the whole story of NJZ-MHJ-ADOR, but isn't it at its core a contract breach situation?

I've always had mixed feelings about those: on one hand I can understand the company, that has invested hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to get a group ready to debut, then facilitate a debut and then promote them to make them popular - so it seems only fair that they get some return on that - often risky - investment.

On the other hand, if a member or group are completely miserable and unhappy under company or the company is treating them unfairly or cruelly, then it wouldn't seem fair to keep being chained to that company for 7 years of the best, most productive years of your life.

However things go, I hope the Newjeans girls will be well and able to forge their own path how they like it and can be happy with.

Quote from Taemin-Identity

I doubt third one is live.

You forgot about this one.

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This one would be in my Top 3. I will never not be impressed with this iconic debut performance, the strength of their vocals combined with the amount and intensity of their dancing, and that energy.

SNSD really were at the top of their game in their ITNW era, seeing all their performances in those debut months.

The 3 performances in the OP, I can sort of agree to as part of a Top 10. But I include vocals as part of performance prowess and aura, and I rate vocals higher than swagger when it comes to (stage) presence.