Posts by FoReveries

Quote from Varenka

I'm in denial that NMIXX is doing so poorly because of "O.O." I can admit that their music just doesn't seem to be the taste of the general public*** though.

Red Velvet, while not really at the level of Blackpink or Twice (at least in terms of sales), were still a top group, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. The issue is that JYPE is now doing relatively poorly with ITZY and NMIXX. They need to figure out what's going on there because it doesn't look like it's an NMIXX issue but a JYPE issue.

This. I was kinda wondering the same. It felt that JYPE made a great start with ITZY's debut year, but after that they somehow started missing the ball. I haven't really followed JYPE management closely, so no idea if there were changes internally, or if JYP started to run short of killer producers and songwriters.

But it did make me wonder.

JYP used to so good with songs for his groups and with branding. But not so much anymore in more recent years, is what it feels like.

Quote from vzal

Where lmao, RV members except Irene have never ranked above Twice members on Gallup. Tzuyu is the highest ranking foreign idol in history and ranked inside top 20 for three years straight. J-line also appeared on the list in 2018-19 but Wendy and Yeri never did and Joy never ranked above Sana.

This again. So tiring, sometimes I feel like trying to discuss policies with MAGA extremists here, or Jessica Tarlov in Fox' The Five

I said 'ranked as high and in some cases even higher' and with the 'as high' doesn't mean 'at the exact ranking spot'.

As for the ones that ranked, specifically limiting this to Gallup popularity ranking:

Gallup 2017

#4 RV Irene

#6 Nayeon (TWICE)

#9 Tzuyu (TWICE)

#17 Dahyun (TWICE)

Gallup 2018

#4 RV Irene

#6 Nayeon (TWICE)

#13 Tzuyu (TWICE)

#15 RV Seulgi

#17 Sana (TWICE)

#20 Momo (TWICE)

Gallup 2019

#5 Nayeon (TWICE)

#6 RV Irene

#15 RV Seulgi

#16 Jeongyeon (TWICE)

#18 Sana (TWICE)

#20 RV Joy / Mina (TWICE)

RV's Irene hanging around in the Top 5/Top 10 regions and in 2017 and 2018 higher than all TWICE members.

Seulgi and Joy ranking in the lower Top10-20 Gallup rank regions like other ranking TWICE members, and in Seulgi's case as 2nd ranker higher than TWICE's 2nd ranker in 2019.

I find nothing wrong with describing this as 'Irene, Seulgi and Joy ranked as high and in some cases even higher than TWICE members'.

Quote from killthisfenty

Even without promo RV has always been behind both groups because they had a small fanbase. I’m sorry but saying JYP/YG promoted BP & Twice correctly is hilarious to me.

If you think that SM Entertainment is this supreme promotor and brand management company, far superior than JYPE or YGE, then I have this nice iglo hut for sale for you in the Sahara desert.

I never stated that JYPE and YGE managed TWICE and BP correctly or perfectly, only that they were better, more proficient and effective at promoting and brand managing than SM Entertainment.

Oh wow, I wasn't aware that SM had released something like this. Thx for the heads up!

So... SM are planning to go into the movies or anime business?

Quote from selfmate

finally it's naevis' time to recoup some of that trainee debt

Not so sure if it's a lack of charisma for RV, since RV's members like Irene and Joy and Seulgi often ranked as high and in some cases even higher than BP and especially TWICE members in SK popularity listings in those 3rd gen years. Especially Irene.

I think it's more a matter of promotion and strategic choices that caused RV to fall behind BP and TWICE more than they needed to: SM just wasn't as effective, strong and impactful in their promotion and branding of RV as JYP and YG Entertainment were. SM often ignored opportunities that could've lifted RV up where as JYP and YG utilised their resources smarter and better. Additionally, SM's conscious choice to have RV have a concept path duality, Red vs Velvet, might have been more entertaining for fans, it also put up a higher threshold for other music fans.

NMIXXX seems to have a sortlike issue: yes, hit songs are absolutely important. But I also get the feeling that NMIXXX isn't promoted and hyped as smartly and strongly as some other girl groups are. Thinking about this, it almost seems like JYP have been flailing and failing with the management and promotion of their newer girl groups, both ITZY and NMIXXX.

Quote from YamaChwan

I appreciate your attempt to have a thoughtful dialogue about the topic instead of engaging im the usual tribalism and tangential buffoonery that typically details a good discussion.

I don't really disagree with much of what you've said thus far, and you would've gotten best answer if the user you quoted hadn't so succinctly explained why this brand reputation index has always been a complete joke and extremely unreliable tool at best.

What if someone who knows nothing about K-Pop browsed around and saw this list? It would absolutely destroy their initial perception of the most popular brands in the industry, as said list is just so completely divorced from reality.

And if a newbie couldn't reliably use this list to better inform themselves about the hierarchy of groups, it is worthless.

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Yeah, for newbie K-pop fans it can be confusing. But for years long K-pop fans, they should be able to see the monthly brand rankings in context and take them with a grain of salt.

As for overall popularity and recognition, I still think that the Gallup chart and number of CF's are still the best indicators for when it's about South Korea, and google trends and streams when it's about internationally.

But that's a topic for another discussion and other discussion threads.

Quote from Mandickay

This Brand Reputation Ranking thing has been discussed many times before, and you can also find some articles on AllKPop talking about the opacity and inconsistency of this ranking calculation.

This ranking comes from the Korean Business Research Institute. This is not an academic institution but a commercial company. They have never published the ranking metrics and weighting of their calculation, and outsiders have to pay when they want to know about it.

The ranking is divided into 4 categories: Participation Index, Media Index, Communication Index, Community Index and Recommendation Index. The data of the 4 categories actually come from SNS and social media. NewJeans members do not have personal social media accounts so their scores in this part are very low. But being inactive on social media has absolutely nothing to do with whether a brand will consider using artists to promote its products. Brand management doesn't care about these rankings, and data from their own internal market analysis will surely reflect the real situation more accurately.

Another part of the data comes from fans’ SNS mentions and blog posts. You will, therefore, see some artists with little news and relatively low-key style suddenly ranking high because their fans are more active in posting for the artist and discussing about her/him on SNS. But what does this have to do with the brand’s decision? not at all.

Let's take a look at the August Girl Group Member Brand Reputation Rankings:

07. Apink’s Jeong Eun Ji

15. BLACKPINK’s Lisa

Has anyone spotted Jung Eun Ji as the cover girl on the August fashion magazine cover or a large outdoor advertisement in August? Lisa just became a global ambassador of LV but she is ranked 15th, hoho. We've all seen Danielle's (NewJeans) Celine giant outdoor campaign, but she wasn't even in the top 30. The whole ranking is just a laughable farce.

Bunnies do not have to feel bad when you see NewJeans ranked at the bottom on this chart. Only people who don't understand the situation in Korea will be obsessed with this ranking. NewJeans has always been one of the KPOP girl groups with the highest attention among Korean people. Even after spending several hard months living under HYBE's criticism and attacks, things didn't change much.

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Nice, thanks for the summarizing, most of it has been discussed multiple times before, but over the years you tend to forget how exactly the details were again.

As for the company not revealing their source metrics, a lot of companies don't do it = not even sure if Google trends does it, I think. But as long as it can be 'reverse engineered' up to a point and explained, the sources and source weighing not being transparant doesn't really need to be an issue.

There are some other points that are a problem, though: apparently, it's not so much the source data that is questionable but how it's interpreted, used and weighed by the Institute IS questionable. Especially if it's used as a metric for brand.

So the problem is that the name 'brand ranking' is misleading.

However, when it's viewed in the right context with the 4 category stats being publicized too, then the data can still be informative.

Just not in the way how many use it for conclusions.

Quote from Hopkinz

And that was my first SNSD comeback!

Mine too!

What I also liked of the SNSD members was they were so diverse, they were each such distinct characters with such different personalities yet with great chemistry and energy that radiated off them, no wonder that they did so phenomenal on tv shows and that the public knew them all by name.

And they had no trouble roasting eachother and also others, such a rare, unseen idol trait nowadays, but they did it in such a way that it was funny and didn't feel as offensive.

Ok, this is absurd. I'm shocked, stunned frankly. Never in my wildest dreams would I have expected that Supernova will be the Aespa song that will be such a dominating chart & PAK queen, that it'll even have PAKs 3 months after release.

It wouldn't even have been in my top 5 of best guesses for Aespa songs.

Wow... speechless.

Quote from YamaChwan

My sources tell me no way they did.

They had a Japan schedule basically in the same time window

It's about how any "brand institute" that not only doesn't have the most popular, visible and listened to girl group in the country at the top of their ranking, but also has an algorithm that pushed them out their top 30, isn't worth shit.

They should be formally shut down and disbanded.

And I'm serious.

If you go to Seoul right now, it'll be literally impossible not to be hit by an avalanche of NewJeans advertisements and songs.

But TripleS had a stronger brand ranking? Make it make sense.

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Ah ok, it's about that brand ranking.

Yeah, I have no idea on what exactly the algorithm is based - but then, it's the same for me when it comes to google trends.

I didn't check the latest brand ranking, but if Newjeans or other top popular groups aren't mentioned on it, then that's weird - unless every single other ranked group has had some huge popularity/controversy/being talked about boost.

Would be nice to know what exactly the brand ranking used as data sources and data points - but I'm too lazy to look it up now.

Quote from YamaChwan

I don't know why we're still discussing previous generation girl groups. That topic couldn't be less relevant to the premise of this thread

You're all about to trigger my toxic side and make me go trigger some girl group stans with provocative threads

If that was a reference to my post too, then I'll say I was just responding on an earlier post

Quote from Hopkinz

For me, Sunny stood out with her iconic short hairstyles and I thought she was funny.

Sunny, Sooyoung, and Hyoyeon stood out the most

Sunny with that short 'The Boys' hairstyle was iconic indeed, I think that was the first time she had short hair

Oh nice, an SNSD thread For me, it was Sunny.

Someone posted some odd videofragments on a totally different forum. I watched it, it appeared to be a compilation of funny scenes with Sunny and what looked like her friends. I was confused and at the same mesmerized, started to watch some other funny youtube videos that were referenced with the same girl named Sunny and got seamlessly yet quickly immersed in this weird, different culture that was reality tv, variety shows, and music all rolled into 1.

It started with Sunny, then the more I watched clips the more I learnt about the other SNSD girls, then I watched some variety shows like Invincible Youth, Girls Go To School and Horror Movie Factory, then music videos like Genie and Gee and stage performances - which was made even easier due to a central spot with everything SNSD related material gathered (thank you, Soshified!!! ) - and I was hooked.

... oh, lol the first Sunny/SNSD clips that lured me to this devious path into K-pop are still online,

Quote from selfmate

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I can't remember the last time Twice BlackVelvet members interacted with one another

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This gave me BlackVelvet flashbacks. The nostalgia

Ooh, nice!

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

SNSD does not have nearly the same global impact as Blackpink or NewJeans. Japan is probably the only place where they outpaced them

For their era, SNSD's global impact and popularity were spectacular and S-tier.

But of course it can't be compared with later, post-BTS years, where K-pop as a whole has exploded phenomenally in worldwide recognition, album sales, streams etc etc. In fact, no 2nd gen group, no boy group and no girl group pre-BTS can compare in absolute numbers when it comes to success and global popularity with the top groups since BTS.

So yeah, Blackpink and NewJeans and even a number of other 3rd/4th gen bgs and ggs are successful internationally at a level that the groups in previous gens couldn't.

What's this about? Is this about the monthly brand rankings by the Korean Brand institute?

iirc wasn't that based on the number of references of the various artists and groups in a number of commonly used media platforms?

If so, of course there'll be differences between a monthly ranking based frequency and intensity of referencing, and an annual ranking based on survey sample polling.

Huh, will this be new SM experiment? Trying to mix the trot sound and scene with idol branding/promotion and way of doing/managing things?

Will we be getting a 'Feel My Rhythm' type of music, but then instead of blending with classical music, now it'll be blending with trot music?

I thought they were already doing stuff with trot, but after a quick check it's classical music and indie music that they have been investing in and a classical label that they have been investing in.

Nice performance! I like the song, hopefully it'll do well

On a different note, does Cube hate or look down upon Chowon? It feels like her styling and hairstyle didn't get the same level of attention and care as it did for the other members where it really suits them and is flattering to them, where as Chowon's feels like an afterthought.

I hate how I almost sound like an akgae with this, but it's irritating and grating how it feels like Cube is constantly underestimating and wasting Chowon's potential and talents, in order to promote and make some others in the group shine.

Almost feels all over again like how Chowon wasn't even picked for a team in the first PD48 selection round and ended up with all the leftovers, even when Chowon was the one with the strongest presence when she first entered the room with all the PD48 candidates.

Boy, how she proved them all wrong again and again and STILL she ended up stabbed in the back

Quote from sonemariam

I agree and what complicated it all for me is the fact that she was voted out by the majority. There are lines that very close friends to you shouldn't cross, especially, when they understand your business and know how certain decisions can damage you. When they do that, you realise that you were only friends when things weren't tough enough to make difficult decisions.

I believe that difficult situations show one best who their real and worthy friends are.

And, some people hate it when I say this but Snsd still need their brand name to carry on their solo careers sometimes. So, they have to show the fandom that they are still together so that they keep getting the Snsd fans full support.

I wouldn't be surprised if some members aren't close at all beyond business and probably have closer friends outside the group.

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Oh, I'm 100% certain that some members aren't that close (anymore) at all, best example: Sunny (who has been my ultimate bias and reason I got into SNSD and K-pop in the first place).

It's been pretty obvious that she's become distanced more and more after Jessica's departure, most likely due to Jessica's leaving and how things all went down around it. Sure, it was pretty obvious even before that Sunny wasn't that tight/close with some SNSD members, especially Sooyoung - I'd describe the Sunny-Sooyoung relationship as a 'tolerate' cq work relationship, from both sides.

But after the departure of Jessica that she seemed closest with (even if the Sunny-Jessica bond was uneven and Sunny was nowhere near as close to Jessica as Jessica's bond with Krystal was), Sunny really started to drift off further and further from that SNSD core, mentally and emotionally. Checking the SNSD variety shows before and after Jessica's departure for example, Sunny's nowhere near as committed and passionate in the post-Jessica shows as she was in those early SNSD years.

However, I disagree in that all their interactions and internal group contacts are all just a show, an obligation. They don't need it for their solo careers - they'll always be SNSD members to everyone regardless just like Jessica. No, it looks far more likely that a number of them still are close and friends, even if some will be closer with eachother than others.

Huh. Not sure what happened, but... deja vu flashback

If only we could break the ever ongoing wheel.

Damn! This is insane!