Posts by FoReveries

Quote from sveznalica

I hear you, years ago nct was so infamous for their dances, synchronization and dance practices.

Yeah, boy groups always manage to draw me in with stunning, epic dance and performance videos and NCT were really at the top of that game for many years.

There were some other groups that I also liked for their dance practice videos - like I said IKON, but also BTS (early years) and Seventeen - but I don't know, there was something special and extraordinary about NCT dance practice videos, some extra quality.

Not to forget Ten's solo and duo performance videos, they were almost art!

Lightsum

NCT:

I was heavily interested in their dance practice videos, as well as those of IKON (or group B as they were called in the Who Is Next show), and watched those dozens of times, they looked just so great and also Taeyong's rap was potentially so promising and awesome and unexpected (for an SM artist). It was all so glorious and epic even before debut, and so were they:

So I was totally there for their debut, and loved The 7th Sense and I loved their modular (sub)group structure. Then interest started to wane with Fire Truck and Cherry Bomb, then they totally hooked me again with the brilliant multi-group bulk comeback campaign in 2018, with 'Boss', 'Yestoday', 'Baby Don't Stop' and 'Black on Black' which I all loved to bits, and again I caught up and rewatched over and over again their dance practices.

Then interest started to gradually fall again - until it completely revived when they had another multi-unit mass comeback campaign, with the truly brilliant 'Make a Wish', '90's Love', 'Resonance', 'Misfit' and their other songs. It was such a genius move! II also loved 'Kick It', but after that year there weren't any highlights that drew me back in, so my attention and fascination started to fade again, until now.

Lightsum:

Due to Chowon and (G)I-dle, my interest in the group pre-debut was huge and it remained slightly after the disappointing debut. But I couldn't watch Cube's continuous squandering of the group's potential and even more so, of Chowon. So I took some distance from the group, albeit with a bleeding heart.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

They are not an active group

They have not been in active group in 7+ years

They will likely never again be an active group

Just a group that reunites on significant years/special occasions.

There is no real difference between how SNSD, Kara, T-ara, SES, BEG etc move regardless of specific label

Display More

SNSD's level of activity wasn't what I was discussing, I replied on your comment 'They, like sushi and wg, would have met their end in 2019 with their 10 year contracts expiring.'

Which was simply factually and de facto wrong: Wonder Girls officially disbanded as a group, neither did they have a comeback as a group afterwards. As for SNSD, in complete contrast with WG and your statement 1) SNSD never officially nor inofficially disbanded 2) it was even clearly stated that the group remains together even when some members went to pursue their solo career outside SM and 3) SNSD had group activities after 2017 and a comeback in 2021-2022. So no, SNSD did not meet their end in 2019 nor did their contract as a group expire, no matter how antis might claim those facts aren't the truth they are.

And I already answered about how unlikely it would still be that 2NE1 would make it till 2019 even without Bom's scandal. I think that Minzy's departure and what happened between YG and the remaining 2NE1 members that Summer after Minzy's leaving when they were supposed to work on their new album and comeback would still be the deciding factor, with a new, fresh group as Blackpink as replacement as the cherry on top. If you think otherwise, feel free to do so.

Still not a big fan of the song itself, but I like the choreo.

Seulgi is one of the best dance cq performance queens of her gen, and this fits her well

SM being SM, nothing new, I've never been that impressed with their promotional and artist brand building capabilities, tbh - compared with the other top companies, of course.

In some ways they're very solid, but brand building, PR, promotion and distribution aren't among them.

Love the T-shirt, 'Did you think before you say it?'

And love their friendship, I didn't know they were close?!

Quote from Varenka

Shouldn't the definition of a Golden Age be up to you?

I'd say my definition is pretty simple: the era where the average level is music quality was at its highest. It can't just be your top groups or Big3/4 but the average of all groups being high. There can be multiple Golden Ages or even a Silver Age if you want to try to make a hierarchy.

True

Quote from uwuwu-98

Peak 2nd gen (2009-2013) was better imo, but it's definitely better than late 2nd gen and 3rd gen. I've the feeling 3rd gen is a bit overrated in general, GF are my ults and the top 5 ggs were really strong, but in general apart from those 5, other groups were pretty forgettable or hit or miss (I don't want to sound rude but there's a reason why none became succesful apart from OMG a bit too late). Loona was probably the most interesting thing happening after the top 5 and well...

I had the same thoughts, 2009-2011 were peak years but 2007-2008 and 2012-2013 might be included if you like, and the diversity in girl groups, styles and concepts and overall vibe were a world of difference with 3rd gen where you only had a few girl groups who did really well and then a vast gap.

Not sure how to define 4th gen and 5th gen (I don't even know when one stopped and the other began), but it's characterized by not having a clear top tier but instead a wide range of ggs that do well in some way or another, more so than 3rd gen times and more of a reminder of peak 2nd times - but without an SNSD S tier equivalent present.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

They made it to 8, 2 more isn't impossible

The reason their comeback got scrapped had more to do with Bom not being in any condition to go on than Minzy leaving.

If that scandal hadn't of happened, she probably would have been in a much better mental state to push forward

Clear disbandment, soft disbandment, "indefinite hiatus" all the same in my book

Display More

Hmm, yeah, YG also said he was the 'only one who disagreed about disbanding 2NE1' yet the 2NE1 girls all wanted to continue and they only got to learn about 2NE1's, their own group, disbandment via the media, not from YG and not beforehand...

Added to that, Blackpink debuted around that time.

As for 'indefinite hiatus', if you refer to SNSD with that, they had a song release in 2018 and comeback and album release in 2022.

Only listened to the title track, and that one is a blop to me: loved the MV, the song is kinda iffy to me and not my taste, but I love how Seulgi is expanding her territory as an artist.

I'll revisit after I listened to the rest of the album.

I never know, what exactly defines a Golden Era? But based on the points mentioned, I'd say I know too little of the current situation to hail it as a Golden Era - although I'd lean towards No. I feel like there have always been a lot of ggs.

I'm also not convinced that posters can/will be able to answer that question objectively enough, and won't simply only hail as Golden Era the year(s) when their ultimate bias groups were at their peak, or when they themselves came into K-pop and everything was fresh and new.

... based on the posted comments so far, seems it's the opposite, I am convinced that people will NOT be able to be objective enough and WILL only be able to see when they were new to K-pop or when their bias groups were at their peak as Golden Era

Quote from foreveraespaaa

pasted-from-clipboard.png

original post: here

7. She looks like GFriend's Eunha

Oh, that was a good observation! Eunha also had eyes and a gaze that were unique and extremely mesmerizing.

She's definitely very eye catching and her short hair that looks very good on her makes her jump out even more in a group that is filled with strong visuals.

I think it's for a big part her eyes: her gaze makes me think of a doe, a young deer that seems to stare curiously right into your soul.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Even then it doesn't make much sense. The entire group aren't amazing dancers, but they still average out pretty high. If anything their choreo is simplistic compared to what most of them are capable of.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Yeah, I generally don't understand those sorts of arguments but its whatever.

Imo, most SM ggs are actually pretty good dancers. Its just that SM artists are generally vocal-oriented so they would stick to less complex choreos to improve the live experience. But ofc thats useless now that they arent even allowed to sing live very often.

I don't think there's that much to understand about it, it's just one of those (fake news) narratives that a number of K-pop fans love to repeat and parrot in circle jerk echo chambers, in the hopes that their claims and narratives will make the majority of K-pop fans believe and propagate them without criticism or deeper investigation => hey, if it works in politics and mainstream media propaganda, then why not in K-pop, right?

It's like those other K-pop narratives of the past: like how massive numbers of netizens and K-pop fans believed and parroted how SM groups like SNSD, Super Junior and other SM groups were 'talentless visuals' - until vocal technique analysis became popular and K-pop fans as a group became slowly aware that SM vocals and vocalists were actually impressive, let alone their other talents.

Or how T-ARA were bullies (they weren't).

Or how this or that idol visual was actually ugly and had undergone PS based on endlessly showing 1 specific unflattering teen picture as 'proof' - while purposely ignoring all those idols' other child and teen pictures that showed they were already very pretty as a child and highschool kid far before debut.

As for 'stage presence', the term is as vague and subjective as vocal color and the definition of 'it girl', people can make of it whatever they like and prefer. So if they dislike a group's performance (or group), of course they can claim that group lacks 'stage presence'.

Although in RV's case, I think it's obvious a number of K-pop fans (who were fans of other top gg's or who hated SM) parroted the claim that RV had no stage presence bc they wanted to shade RV.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

They, like sushi and wg, would have met their end in 2019 with their 10 year contracts expiring. But at least they would've made it to 10 years

2ne1 still had a lot of issues outside Bom's drug scandal

I'm not sure if they'd have made it to 10 years. As every K-pop fan recalls who was already around those days, YG made sure to emphasize 2NE1 would have a comeback and new album in short term, right after Minzy left. However, that Summer something happened, either there was some conflict or YG decided 2NE1 didn't work out without Minzy, whatever the case he decided to cancel all those comeback plans and chose for disbanding 2NE1 which he announced later on that year (without even notifying the 2NE1 members beforehand).

So I'm not sure they would've made the 10 years. Luckily, the story has some sort of happy ending, in that 2NE1 has made their comeback into YG not that long ago and now they can have their comebacks or new albums under YG again.

As for Soshi, they never disbanded or left SM (even if a few individual members did) and even had their comeback as SNSD two years ago, 15 years after their debut.

Ugh, this reminds me of the annoying, unnecessary shading and bashing thrown towards Red Velvet back then, just because some bias groups of other gg stans weren't selected to go - as if RV were somehow unworthy to be picked to go

As for which 4th gen group to pick to go, I'd say: none.

All groups should be spared and should stay: back then, there was a brief moment where it looked like there'd be a detente and a decrease of hostilities between SK and NK. But Kim Jong Un has proven he is still the tyrant he always was, so no, no group should go.

Quote from bagelbaguette

according to the sm stans here, every sm gg was poorly received at debut and this one was arguably better received so i'll take their word for it

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

SNSD were honestly pretty "basic" when they debuted. Perhaps that's what they're going for here. I don't think it will pay off though. Times have changed, and the consumers have very different expectations.

They're lying.

When did SM become known for "craziness?" They've traditionally been one of the more reserved companies.

I was gonna answer when I saw these posts as a K-pop fan who has been around since 2nd gen times - but I see a number of replies by foreveraespaaa and SooYoung , so I guess they already covered most of the counterarguments.

From what I've seen most of the SM groups had a slower start following debut compared with other Big 3 (now Big 4) groups, easy examples are Wonder Girls, 2NE1, Blackpink, Itzy etc compared with SM groups like EXO, SNSD, Red Velvet and such who started slow (compared with other Big 3 groups, not compared with non-Big 3 groups that didn't have the backing and clout that the Big 3 have).

SM groups also had more controversy, scandals and bashing going on around and after their debut compared with other Big 3 groups - SNSD for example had the dubious honor to receive the first and biggest black ocean within the 1st year after their debut, NCT had members like Taeyong being bashed to oblivion even pre-debut for years until finally SM deemed it time to clear up many of the misunderstandings. And RV and Aespa had their own controversies going on.

Looking back, I think it was because for years there were a lot more people who really, intensely hated SM, more so than the number of people who hated YG or JYP, and that agressive dislike spilt over onto the groups that SM debuted (aside from several mistakes SM made).

But that's more in the past now, I guess. From what I see, the more recent SM groups don't have the same bad fortune that previous SM gens suffered with their debut.

I was already wondering how Teddy would be doing as head of his own label, in contrast with his previous position as genius songwriter/composer. I was also wondering whether TBL will have the promotional clout and power that YG had.

Not sure if Park Bom's controversy was the main issue.

Even without that, you'd still have a dissatisfied Minzy leaving the group in 2015 - and she was the vastly underrated and underappreciated stable foundation of the group being their best vocalist AND their best dancer.

You'd also still have the issue with Teddy only sparingly releasing new songs, as well as YG's new girl group upcoming, that YG liked better and that would've gotten the bulk of YG's resources.