Posts by FoReveries

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

I love when people accuse Irene of being a "bully" while literally in the act of cyberbullying her. The irony is completely lost on them.

I noticed that too, with so many K-pop scandals and controversies! I thought I was the only one.

Often the ones crying and shouting the hardest about idols being bullies, have no self reflection at all how their actions online are the same and worse than those idol bullies.

Kinda like how the people villainizing and putting girls and women on burning stakes as witches and lynching black Americans for their 'evil deeds', were often far worse in their intolerance, hatred and wickedness than the victims they burnt as witches or hanged.

Personally, I think it's often projection or phobias and traumatic bullying experiences in their childhood or highschool years with those people shouting the hardest about idols being bullies.

Quote from momamae

Irene made mistakes in the past and had the chance to learn from it. No one deserves eternal hate or end of a whole career or stay forever grounded and punished for mistakes. I'm honestly glad for her

Quote from Polarize

She deserves all the success in the world. She made a mistake and was a victim of Korean cancel culture. Had she done it in the West it would be a non-issue. Perhaps middle ground would be best, but not the way it’s played out.

Agreed.

Personally, I find 99.9% of all those so called scandals and controversies in K-pop and Korea pure trivial nonsense that wouldn't even make someone look up if they happened in the US or other Western countries. Most of them are too exaggerated, too overblown, too dramaqueen petty-like, or too taken out of context, so why even bother. But hey, to each their own

As for Irene, I noticed too that with this comeback she's really shining. She radiates joy, enthusiasm and excitement and when she glows, she really, REALLY glows: that has always been her special charm.

Quote from emanresu

Teshubs.

I see Irene's still got you fanboying after all these years.

Glad to see it. Stay loyal.

Hope her solo does well... It will be nice if she can have a success.

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I knew it! The name was changed but the writing style and topics gave me deja vue flashbacks...

I guess she's attractive for her age. Ok, good for you OP

I'm not so sure the album sales increase was some K-pop wide conspiracy that included practically all K-pop companies instead of Covid years, just as I'm not sure that the decrease is because of the withdrawal of this 'deep K-pop state' conspiracy cabal instead of Covid being over and the BTS induced global K-pop hype deflating with BTS' absence.

How is it about the other international metrics? How is it with Spotify streams, with youtube views, Billboard charting etc? Has there also been a decrease in those the past year(s) for K-pop groups? Or are they still the same or even showing growth?

If it's only album sales that show such a decrease, then that's weird and sus, agreed. But if there's a decrease trend across other international metrics too, then it looks more like K-pop slowing down worldwide due to missing special boosters like BTS and Covid.

Quote from randkpopstan

Red Velvet has sold 254k albums, aiming for the biggest drop post fraudulent era with 75% drop, I think the album can reach 300k and that will help a little the numbers but this is catastrophic. Genuinely rv should have never crossed the 200k-300k mark in the first place. When they went from selling like red velvet to pulling peak twice numbers overnight and STILL people didn't believe us about the fraudulent sales:

Screenshot 20 Red Velvet Sales Summary - KOREAN SALES.png

Like in some years we will genuinely look back in disbelief how the big majority of people denied the fraudulent inflation of sales.

Aespa got a 62k shipment this week, a nice improvement to their numbers.

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I assume the 2 million in 2022 was from multiple albums and restocks.

Also, what nonsense is this 'Red Velvet should have never crossed the 200k-300k mark in the first place'.

Seriously, some Once...

I'm kinda addicted to shorts, they're often funny or mesmerizing, like little popcorn bits of entertainment.

... so of course I just had to post a couple I encountered with the RV girls here

I mean, Kiss of Life's Julie twerking with Seulgi, Seulgi and Irene as Zootopians, Seulgi the dancer, Irene & Wonbin, Seulgi & Chaeyeon, they're just must-see's

ReveluvTaglist

What's always great with RV comebacks, is that there's a lot of additional content in those busy weeks popping up. From performances, to live shows, to radio shows, to all kinda variety shows they attend. I love it

So here's a number of those you might not have seen yet

Irene and Seulgi (when oh when can we get a comeback of this iconic sub unit? ) going for a workout with Jongkook

Red Velvet visiting Shin Dong Yeob's drunk talk show (I'm not familiar with the show, first time seeing it? )

Red Velvet going to school (in another variety show I don't know )

And not to forget, Red Velvet performing with a live band and at music shows (I love the fanchants!)

Enjoy

ReveluvTaglist

They actually had a great start with their debut year, their songs, the promotions, their popularity, it all clicked together. But maybe bad luck that they didn't have the follow up songs at a level that could continue that streak?

The song is ok, not on the level of TWICE's top songs but in the middle.

The MV itself, it kinda reminds me of the box set MV's in 2nd gen times, which is surprising. Was this arranged by JYP or by another, external party?

Isn't it normal that after the massive hype attention that BTS generated for K-pop and K-pop groups in general and after Covid ended that kept everyone chained to their homes, that K-pop won't do as great as it did in those years?

It's a shame, but not surprising.

If it's because of the conflict, then it just feels petty and childish.

But in a broader sense, it's also concerning: wasn't HYBE the company providing the necessary connections and resources for ADOR and NJ to grow and have a solid debut, comebacks and promotions?

If HYBE are determined to wash their hands off of ADOR and NJ, how will MHJ and ADOR manage to get NJ the comebacks on the quality level from before?

History shows that most of the times, you need to have a smash hit that makes a strong, lasting impression on the general public.

Follow that up with fairly good/good enough songs and leaving agreeable to good impressions at the occasions the public gets to know the group better, and you're golden for a while.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

I know Soojin stans will hate me for saying it but it almost seems like Fate or Karma needed Soojin to be gone for Idle to get its massive success. Was she really the bully that her accusers made her out to be?

No, she wasn't the bully at all, she was witch hunted, and I really blame that sibling (sister? brother?) of that old school friend of hers, who made it her life's mission to destroy Soojin's career, out of sheer jealousy and spite. That person really deserves all the bad karma on her path for that completely unnecessary action.

Quote from YamaChwan

Anyone claiming SNSD wasn't the top in 2014 or 2015 is engaging in flagrant revisionist history AND strawmanning.

The premise of the thread is who dominated the most as the top girl group in Korea. Even if SNSD weren't at their peak in the last two years of top girl group status, nobody really came close to taking their crown until Twice finally did in 2016.

Twice handed the crown over to BLACKPINK in 2019. It doesn't matter that they had some songs perform well enough afterwards, because they were no longer the top girl group regardless.

I already gave the reign lengths.

SNSD: 08 - 15

TWICE: 16-18

BP: 19-21

Even if I shorten SNSD's reign to 09-15, it's still the longest.

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I wasn't aware that the thread was solely about Korea. If it's purely about Korea, then it's not even a discussion: SNSD were everywhere for years, to the point that the Korean government and Tourism bureau elevated them to national treasure, with advertisements like 'In Korea there's Kimchi, there's Makgeolli... and there's Girl's Generation'. SNSD were the reason that cute/bright concept and large group sizes for K-pop groups became a lasting trend ever since then. Companies even rescheduled their groups' comebacks so they wouldn't come back at the same time as SNSD did.

But SNSD also dominated internationally over other (girl) groups in 2nd gen era - even though it isn't comparable with the international dominance and success of K-pop groups that came with BTS, of course.

Anyway, that's enough time spent on your thread, me thinks, time to say goodbye to this thread and move on to other threads

Quote from vzal

Dawg. Unnecessarily dragging the convo.

If you want to include 2007 and 2008 for SNSD aka the years they weren't #1, I guess we can say TWICE had a great run from 2015-22 too considering they were top 2 for these 7 years with a significant gap in all metrics from #3 and below.

But we are talking about peak. Dominance as the top group. Read the thread title again and be a little less biased. It's a fact SNSD's peak was 2009-13, just like TWICE's peak was 2015-19. Did both groups have more successful years? Yes, they did. Is that what I, the person you quoted talked about? No.

Literally no Once is claiming longevity > peak.

I know. I admitted SNSD were more popular at their peak in my first post. Did you not read it?

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"Literally no Once is claiming longevity > peak."

Come on, now, that's hugely incorrect. I can clearly recall how a lot of ONCE made a huge point of the longevity of TT and Dance The Night Away in the Once-Blink fanwars and other discussions, and how they claimed how some RV songs hitting #1 or like Power Up getting a PAK was trivial because longevity is more important, and how Alcohol Free was a hit song and RV's Queendom not - even if Queendom had charted higher - because of AF's better longevity (at least, that was those ONCE's claim until Queendom charted longer than AF).

Ignoring all those events and claims by ONCEs during those years as if they never happened is gaslighting.

As for SNSD being the #1 girl group, that was from 2009 till the end of 2nd gen era, for 7 years straight vs TWICE's 4 years being #1 gg.

If you want to talk and compare dominance, then check this:

Now this is dominance, with SNSD clearly and convincingly outpacing their biggest international contenders 2NE1 and Wonder Girls when it comes to (youtube) streams and brand/name recognition for many years.

Now compare this with how it was in 3rd gen/4th gen times (I'm still unsure when exactly 3rd gen ended and 4th gen started):

You can see how there's no obvious or massive dominance of TWICE over their biggest contender Blackpink when it comes to international public/brand interest and how Blackpink already took over in 2019 when it comes to (Spotify) streams.

But this isn't intended to talk down TWICE's or BP's achievements: valid arguments can be made how both Blackpink and TWICE had/have obvious dominance in certain areas.

I just think that when it comes to the overall picture, my case for SNSD is stronger. But I can also understand and see why you and others would go for TWICE or Blackpink, looking at it differently.

I'lm loving it! It's so great to see them have a comeback as a group after all those years

For many years, KARA were 1 of the Top 3 girl groups in K-pop with a lot of catchy hit songs to show for it.

Like these, for a nostalgia trip:

Quote from uwuwu-98

As you said SNSD debuted with ITNW which was a good debut but its success is more based on longevity, ok with that. Their next comeback was Kissing you that made it into the top 30 of the yearly chart of 2008 being released in November of 2007, it is bigger than half of what people here consider hits of Twice and SNSD themselves, this narrative of SNSD flopping before Gee is completely made up.

All SNSD titles since Gaon's creation until Lion Heart (which ironically had better longevity than Mr mr or Party) reached #1 in Gaon, and that's not including Gee and Genie since Gaon wasn't created in 2009. It's a streak of 6 years and a half reaching #1.

There is a fake narrative around regarding SNSD's digitals because it is true 2NE1 was bigger in terms of digital sales since their comebacks always charted many songs high at the same time, so blackjacks used to mock SNSD's overall performance, but SNSD's titles were always super stable during a really long time, they just had a couple of songs that didn't have that good longevity because the public didn't like them that much.

There were a lot of fake narratives going on in regards to SNSD in those years, being constantly propagated by Blackjacks and YG stans (and unfortunately also by bandwagoners and those ELFs that hated SNSD so much they became STAND).

Their digitals were constantly being trashtalked, their international popularity negated, their album sales being called 'trivial' as unimportant, and they were constantly being painted as 'untalented' and nothing more than 'visuals' - until actual factchecks like vocal analyses showed what a load of b*****t all those 'fake narrative' shades were and how SNSD were actually the #1 top tier vocal girl group of their times.

Quote from YamaChwan

I don't recall any SNSD single, especially the ones you listed, performing as poorly as Twice's biggest flops. Unless you have numbers that tell a different story, I think it's disingenuous to put their respective "flops" on the same level.

Also, if we look present day, SNSD can still get a top 5 song on MelOn Daily, while I'm not sure if Twice will ever chart in the top 50 again.

It might be possible, let's be fair here.

I-dle with 'Tomboy', Brave Girls and Oh My Girls with 'Nonstop' and 'Dun Dun Dance' are great examples that as a group you can always have a chance to top charts again, as long as you have a truly great song and/or the right amount of attention and promotion.

Quote from vzal

Those 3-4 years were enough for TWICE to surpass SNSD in all relevant metrics. SNSD had a great run from 2009-2013 and so did TWICE from 2015-2019. Outside these years, both groups had their underperformances/flops. (Mr. Mr., Party, M&M, ICSM). In SNSD's case every release before Gee with ITNW being the only exception flopped along with multiple flop singles in 2015 alone.

Both have similar number of hits and flops, it's just their career trajectory is different so it seems like SNSD had better longevity on charts but they didn't. TWICE blew up with their very first comeback and everything they put out in the next three years was a hit right out of the gate. SNSD had their breakthrough in 2009 and garnered several hits after Gee but they were never dominant the way TWICE were and their hits are also not as big as TWICE's.

SNSD might be more popular but were they dominant? I don't think so. Wonder Girls and CL were the first female artists to chart on Hot100 and Kara was very competitive with them in Japan.

P.S. LOA and Fancy aren't included in those 9 #1 hits. But you're including Party and Mr. Mr.

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There's no denying that when it comes to absolute figures that 3rd gen and 4th gen groups will slay 2nd gen groups: even B-tier and some C-tier groups in 3rd/4th gen are able to slay the top S-tier 2nd gen groups in album sales or audio streams. BTS really did do other K-pop groups a favor with their huge success and popularity, and K-pop growth and recognition spiked up significantly because of it.

However, when you regard every group how they dominated in their era, it's a different story.

SNSD may have their peak years from 2009-2013, but they had a great run from 2007 to 2015 which is twice (pun ) the period that TWICE had: starting from their debut, they were already the #2 most popular and successful girl group and the #1 gg in album sales.

When it comes to purely digital (charting) dominance, you might have a point that can be argued about. Although even then SNSD has a strong case with Gee named 'song of the decade', more #1 charting hits accomplished with fewer comebacks and still scoring #1 hits in twice the number of years that TWICE did (and I recall a lot of Once say for years that longevity in digital charting success is more important than peak height).

But when we're talking overall dominance, then there's no doubt at all: in addtion to many digital hits, SNSD dominated South Korea as #1 variety queens, having the most group and individual endorsements, having the strongest individual careers and name recognition. being officially recognised as a core Korean tourism pillar, slaying even the top boy groups in album sales, consistently slaying all other K-pop groups in youtube views for many years, and being the #1 internationally most popular K-pop (girl) group for many years.

Take it altogether, and there's no comparison in the massive dominance that SNSD had across the spectrum.

Quote from David33

If I'm correct, some fake RV "fans" said something about TWICE not doing good on Charts, some fake ONCE mentioned Nayeon doing great, and they're still talking about RV since they didn't win any Music Show. That's the fight, basically. Children throwing sand at each other in kindergarten.

I don't know who started it, I don't really care, but I'm 100% sure, neither of them are a real RV or TWICE fan.

Oh wow, that's so uninspired and so uninteresting a thing to really fight over. But yeah, typically X, it's what everyone should expect from it.