Seriously, I didn't pay much attention to it before, I thought some of the superhero race and gender swaps were pretty fine. That Spider Man cartoon was great. However, Lord Of The Rings, really? A fictional medieval Europe? This is where you want to "represent" the minorities? I never had a problem with original trilogy not having Asians in it. Like why should it? It is equal to Journey to the West having bunch of white and black dudes running around. So I have no freaking idea what is the end goal here.
Americans, what the hell is going on in your country, what is this desperate attempt to "diversify" everything?
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what is the problem with it??
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that's fantasy so it's bereable thing
problem are those gender and racial swaps for things really set in medieval times, or even earlier
especially when they set it in Slavic or Scandinavian countries
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Is it really that deep? It's nice to see some inclusion of other races and people instead of the usual white heroes in every single piece of media, especially if it's fictional.
The only iffy thing imo is if theres a well known and established character that the public knows, not just lotr but any for of media, but casting someone extremely different to people's perception.
Eg a few years ago before Tom Holland became Spider-Man there many that wanted a black actor for Spider-Man, except everyone knew Peter Parker as a white dude since his inception back in the 60s so it wouldve been weird as fuck to have suddenly have Peter black. Not to mention the other elephant in the room, there was already a black Spiderman aka Miles Morales in the comics so why have have Peter change instead of having Miles. Thankfully Marvel didn't follow those idiots idea and we got both the usual Peter and Miles became his own mainstream character, win win all round.
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I knew this dumb responses were gonna come that's why I brought this example beforehand:
I haven't read or watched Journey to the West so can't speak about any details but from a quick google it seems to be set in real countries, not a fictive world like Lotr. If it is set in a fantasy universe I wouldn't mind them throwing in a diverse cast for a live action adaptation.
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I knew this dumb responses were gonna come that's why I brought this example beforehand:
your dumbass example already happened
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I haven't read or watched Journey to the West so can't speak about any details but from a quick google it seems to be set in real countries, not a fictive world like Lotr. If it is set in a fantasy universe I wouldn't mind them throwing in a diverse cast for a live action adaptation.
Lol it has all the fictional elements that you're mentioned yet you're gonna play "the country name different" game with me?
your dumbass example already happened
External Content www.youtube.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.And seems like you ain't happy about it, neither am I
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Is it really that deep? It's nice to see some inclusion of other races and people instead of the usual white heroes in every single piece of media, especially if it's fictional.
The only iffy thing imo is if theres a well known and established character that the public knows, not just lotr but any for of media, but casting someone extremely different to people's perception.
Eg a few years ago before Tom Holland became Spider-Man there many that wanted a black actor for Spider-Man, except everyone knew Peter Parker as a white dude since his inception back in the 60s so it wouldve been weird as fuck to have suddenly have Peter black. Not to mention the other elephant in the room, there was already a black Spiderman aka Miles Morales in the comics so why have have Peter change instead of having Miles. Thankfully Marvel didn't follow those idiots idea and we got both the usual Peter and Miles became his own mainstream character, win win all round.
Well, nothing is as established as Tolkien's world, which he personally described as pre historic Europe and he stated that he wanted to create English mythology with it.
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Lol it has all the fictional elements that you're mentioned yet you're gonna play "the country name different" game with me?
If it was a ww1 movie I'd have similar issues to you but there's nothing in lotr that makes a diverse cast impossible or overly unrealistic. It's a fantasy world. If elfs are there why can't black people be.
And what's your problem with diversity. It won't take away anything from the story. If you have the opportunity to add representation why not?
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The main reason woud be because the author didn't write the world this way. It's not a matter of wether it is realistic or not but rather how the world of Middle Earth was built by its architect. Fantasy is all about lore, civilizations, cultures, people, races; so if the new Amazon series introduces black Elves and Dwarves in Middle Earth, they'd better come up with a good explanation for it.
It's not about racism. Fantasy fans are particular in that they pay a lot of attention to world building; they want to get a grasp of how everything comes together in a fictional world which written story goes way back to its creation (Eru Iluvatar, the Ainur, etc). And they're especially picky with LOTR since it is the oldest medieval fantasy novel which basically pioneered the whole genre.
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The main reason woud be because the author didn't write the world this way. It's not a matter of wether it is realistic or not but rather how the world of Middle Earth was built by its architect. Fantasy is all about lore, civilizations, cultures, people, races; so if the new Amazon series introduces black Elves and Dwarves in Middle Earth, they'd better come up with a good explanation for it.
It's not about racism. Fantasy fans are particular in that they pay a lot of attention to world building; they want to get a grasp of how everything comes together in a fictional world which written story goes way back to its creation (Eru Iluvatar, the Ainur, etc). And they're especially picky with LOTR since it is the oldest medieval fantasy novel which basically pioneered the whole genre.
Isn't that kinda easy to fix though. I don't know the ins and outs of middle earth history but can't you just imagine that the world has always been more diverse and it's pretty much solves itself? The original books might not have been as diverse but they were written half a century ago and it's not a major aspect of the plot as far as I know. I can't see how changing it and adding representation to it so more people can feel connected to the world, especially since no storylines are compromised, is a bad thing.
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as long as it is plausible within the fictional world they are portraying, Its alright.
Granted as long as it doesn't portray racial stereotypes.
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Seriously, I didn't pay much attention to it before, I thought some of the superhero race and gender swaps were pretty fine. That Spider Man cartoon was great. However, Lord Of The Rings, really? A fictional medieval Europe? This is where you want to "represent" the minorities? I never had a problem with original trilogy not having Asians in it. Like why should it? It is equal to Journey to the West having bunch of white and black dudes running around. So I have no freaking idea what is the end goal here.
All this would have been framed better if you didn't call out people for diversifying casts or supporting the idea of diversification. Nobody likes being provoked as such. It portrays you as some sort of Trump supporter with a MAGA hat even if that may not be your intention. You did say you liked Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse with Miles Morales, a black character who's essentially Spider-Man in that universe. I see you're not completely against the idea of diversity. You just don't like a specific execution of diversification.
Alex_Murphy brought up a fair point about how the fans want accuracy and all that. I try to keep an open mind, so I'm not going to try to find holes in that argument.
Ultimately, though, I don't think it's all that big of a deal. I care more about the plot and the acting. In a fantasy setting, it doesn't matter too much to me. If people want to include a diverse class, great. The only exception I could see would be when a character who represents a marginalized group gets their cultural identity erased. That wouldn't be fair to those who always viewed that character as a symbol of pride and representation.
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Ehmmm, no, not really.
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Ehmmm, no, not really.
Ehmmm, yes, totally.
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Well... LOTR has Easterlings and Haradrims.
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Journey to the West having bunch of white and black dudes running around.
this cracked me up my friend lol
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Ah yes the most unbelievable part of a fantasy work is that black people exist.
And there are Asian characters in the Lord of the Rings... Orcs are based on WWII era Japanese racism. They're literally described as being "sallow-skinned and slant eyed"
Stop with the bullshit. Wakanda and ghost in the shell are fantasy too, doesnt keep you from crying at the mere idea alone that white people will be cast in it
The nerve
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Dont watch it if it bothers you! It's okay, I'm sure it will do well. Us Americans like to diversify casts because we think representation in media matters. This is a fantasy show anyway, so I'm sure it wont do any harm. Hamilton the musical was diversified and that was based on historical events, yet it did great. Suffice to say I think this isn't a big deal at all
Lol yet you cried tears of blood because a white woman played a modern robot?
There shouldnt be black and asian people en european medieval setting. End.
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and then those same people have the nerve to cry about white playing white characters while inserting blacks into everything
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Is a living robot , a man with a creature granting him wishes, or an advanced african nation with magical power realistic?
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as long as it is plausible within the fictional world they are portraying, Its alright.
Granted as long as it doesn't portray racial stereotypes.
Well,it's not plausible.
At all.
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When did I ever say whitewashing a character is breaking the lore? Please point that out to me.
Don't put words in my mouth because you want to be edgy and confrontational.
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When did I ever say whitewashing a character is breaking the lore? Please point that out to me.
Don't put words in my mouth because you want to be edgy and confrontational.
Dont act dense. Yall scream at the slighest idea that a white women may be cast into a modern role: yet defend blackwashing medieval characters set in a very specific european cultural setting.
Yall screamed about a few background actors in Aladdin, who no one will even slightly see on screen, and who are only there to create a crowd effect at a cheaper price with all on screen roles being brown or black, being a few white men. And now the same people defend putting at the very front of european medieval setting several blackwashed characters.
Hell, yall even insisted fucking lions in africa must be ecclusively voiced by black actor and not even one white person: yet for some reason even cultural characters in medieval europe must be played by black actors?
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Dont act dense. Yall scream at the slighest idea that a white women may be cast into a modern role: yet defend blackwashing medieval characters set in a very specific european cultural setting.
Yall screamed about a few background actors in Aladdin, who no one will even slightly see on screen, and who are only there to create a crowd effect at a cheaper price with all on screen roles being brown or black, being a few white men. And now the same people defend putting at the very front of european medieval setting several blackwashed characters.
Hell, yall even insisted fucking lions in africa must be ecclusively voiced by black actor and not even one white person: yet for some reason even cultural characters in medieval europe must be played by black actors?
I don't know who this "y'all" you keep referring to is. I have never said any of those things. Please quote one single time I have ever said that.
So stop putting words in my mouth.
The only one I see here screaming, is you. And it's blatant generalizations at that.
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I don't know who this "y'all" you keep referring to is. I have never said any of those things. Please quote one single time I have ever said that.
So stop putting words in my mouth.
The only one I see here screaming, is you. And it's blatant generalizations at that.
Lmao. You were so quick to insert yourself in this discussion to defend blackwashing, with the usual bullshit people lile you use to justify replacing white characters in their own lore, yet act as if you don't know how this whole blackwashing thing has been going?
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I have never justified replacing a white character in their own lore. Again, you're generalizing.
"people like me"????
What people exactly are those? You're afraid to say it! If you have any courage, just come out with it.
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