Group positions: Role vs Capability

aren't positions determined by the company? if they have positions at all

but regardless of positions we all know talent as in the "singing, dancing and rapping" part of talent is not the top priority in kpop. I consider things such as marketability, charisma, charm, parasocialness, salesmanship etc etc - basically the ability to get people to part with their money - those skill are priceless

it also doesn't mean that those things are mutually exclusive - if one has those skills and can sing/dance/rap to a high level great even better...

I also can't remember what my point was...

In Twice Main dancer role is given to Momo and Mina, Lead Dancer is given to Tzuyu and Nayeon. Jihyo is generally considered at least as good as Mina but they likely wanted to avoid too many members having no positions while Jihyo was already Leader and Main Vocalist. (Sana ended up the only one getting the short end of the stick it seems).

Positions seem to be largely left by the wayside in modern kpop. I think this is due to the fall of the dedicated rappers and the rise of the all-rounders. For me the most interesting position that remains is leader, especially when the member chosen isn’t the eldest, as it says there is something special about that member in particular.

Quote from sonemariam

By positions, I'm talking about main vocalist, dancer, rapper etc

And yes, the company determines the position so the question is, what do they consider to give idols those positions?

trainee assessment and actual skill no?

like main dancers should be the best dancer of the group

the main singers the best singers of the group

I'm sure the company has months and years of assessing said idols during their trainee period to determine who gets what role

In BTS it's definitely about the skills. There's not much to change in terms of the official positions.

Quote from Epyon-556

In Twice Main dancer role is given to Momo and Mina, Lead Dancer is given to Tzuyu and Nayeon. Jihyo is generally considered at least as good as Mina but they likely wanted to avoid too many members having no positions while Jihyo was already Leader and Main Vocalist. (Sana ended up the only one getting the short end of the stick it seems).

I was shocked when I found out that Mina is a main dancer. For me Jihyo, Nayeon and Sana are technically better than her. I wonder why JYPE didn't give any official position to Sana since she sings the chorus in several songs.

Complementary skills.

Positions haven't changed much, I don't think they even need to... everyone gets decent screen time.

Dont know too much about 4 and 5 gen but the 2nd and 3rd gen mostly depend on the idols capabilities to carry that role.. Example SuJu that you will know which one visual, vocal and dance line.. Even Bigbang got their own position in their performance. But mostly dance/visual line will be rapper in the group unless the group skillful balance like OG TVXQ

Quote from sonemariam

Same with Bigbang, Taeyang is the main vocalist but Daesung is the strongest vocalist.

Sometimes its not about the strong vocal but better tone vocal suited for the group song.. Taeyang is more clear and bright compare to Daesung strong vocal but dark which better to be put at the mid to end song while seungri is mid between them which he always sing the bridge of the song

Quote from Seoged

I was shocked when I found out that Mina is a main dancer. For me Jihyo, Nayeon and Sana are technically better than her. I wonder why JYPE didn't give any official position to Sana since she sings the chorus in several songs.

They definitely give off more persona onstage but when it comes to actual technical ability (like just doing a simple body roll or moving hips), Mina is noticeably better than Nayeon and Sana at least.

She's pretty much the only one getting the hips right in hula here.

We won't know for sure, but I think it's everyone's predispositions before the debut. I vaguely remember some gg members saying that some of them had more dance lessons because they were better at it, and some had more vocal lessons, apart from the general training. (I can't remember who said that though)

The interesting thing is that sometimes idols improve with time or develop the skills they haven't had before years after debut, and in this situations the original positions are no longer valid. I don't think any company has ever changed the positions, but I may be wrong. A good example is Jihyo, who was already mentioned. Her dancing improved so much over the years, that some people think that now she's also one of the centers in a group, put more in the spotlight.

There are also cases when some members are skilled in both singing in dancing, then I would guess the company chooses one thing, maybe depending on which other positions are already given? Someone that comes to my mind here is Luna from f(x). She got into SM thnks to her dancing skills but ultimately debuted as the main vocalist. I believe her dance skills were on par with their main dancer, Victoria (although each of them shone in different dance styles), yet her vocal skills got so developed, she ended up being their best vocalist.

Quote from sonemariam

For Snsd, it's definitely capabilities because they had/have the vocal line and dance line and all suit their positions perfectly. Yoona is a true beauty and Jessica is a real life ice princess.

I agree with the first part of your comment but when you mentioned Jessica and her ice princess image, I have to say I disagree with it.

I remember that after the debut, SM gave each of the girls a role and an image to present - so Jessica was supposed to be the cold, princessy one, Sunny was the cute one, Yoona elegant etc. But in reality, I remember that after some years the girls would say theose were not true at all. I remember lots of comments that in reality Jessica is very warm and friendly, Yoona turned out to be a prankster, very playful and a bit tomboyish. Sunny got super tired of having to do aegyo all the time.

So while I think that the positions in the group for them (vocalist and dancer) were all good, I personally think that the personas that SM gave them weren't exactly right. I was actually happy that they started to lose them after a few years and show more of their true personalities.

I might be wrong though, cause people change and perhaps there were parts of them that were true to those "personas". Like with Seohyun - she really seemed very proper and a little uptight, and it seems she just grew out of it later on.

Edit: Of course all of it is just my assumptions and observations, because I don't know their real personalities. But they are one of the groups I follow who I feel had to act a certain way in front of the cameras, and that they had certain personas chosen by the company at first.