These were the top 3 girl groups each year of the third generation

Sometimes I feel like the only person on any social media or discussion platform who has a deep understanding of 3rd gen gg hierarchy, so I'm going to share my knowledge in this thread. It is free of bias and purely stat and fact based.

2014: Red Velvet, Mamamoo and Lovelyz

Default choices honestly. They all debuted in 2014 and kicked off the generation

2015: Red Velvet, Mamamoo and GFriend

Red Velvet was starting to churn out hits, and both Mamamoo and GFriend had their respective break out hits: Um Oh Ah Yeah and Me Gustas Tu

2016: Twice, GFriend, Mamamoo

Easy choice. Statistically the most dominant girl groups. The first of the generation to get PAKs. These three were absolutely everywhere in 2016.

2017: Twice, Red Velvet, Mamamoo

Some might contest this but don't. There was a head to head battle in 2017 and that definitively settled who the more popular group was, as the two groups released music at the same hour and one blocked the other from #1 while setting records for unique listeners

2018: Twice, BLACKPINK, Mamamoo

Twice's last year as the definitive top girl group in K-Pop. BLACKPINK's clear ascension to claiming that status for themselves. Mamamoo at their absolute apex putting up numbers second only to BP

2019: Twice, BLACKPINK, Red Velvet

2020: Twice, BLACKPINK, Red Velvet

2021: Twice, BLACKPINK, Red Velvet

Not much to say. They were top 3 by achievement and acclimation each of these years.

Mamamoo had a huge hit with HIP in 2019, and OMG killed it with Nonstop and Dolphin in 2020, but overall, I give it to the three groups I listed overall

I now open the polls to critique my immaculate rankings.

There are A LOT of stats I could obviously use to supplement these rankings, but I'll only post them as needed

Quote from catzi

2016 and 2017 and not include bp and rv? Insane

It's statistically accurate. BP got lapped by the groups I did list, and I've posted the numbers NUMEROUS times to support this.

*sigh*

This is why you listen to me on 3rd gen. I know what I'm talking about.

Quote from Epyon-556

Fine I'll ask, what numbers did Red Velvet produce in 2019 that ended Mamamoo even with HIP in your opinion?

Psycho technically dropped in 2019 as well, even though it primarily bleeds into 2020, so it's dicey.

Really it depends on where you place that song and promotion cycles which was tragically shortened by Wendy's accident.

HIP was actually the biggest domestic hit among the top girl groups that year, so 2019 is actually the closest year for me, when it comes to them or RV. A deserving group misses the top 3 no matter what. You could make a compelling argument for either.

I'll need to review the cumulative numbers for 2019 again. Of the 2010s, it's the year that idols performed the worst in by far.

Quote from uwuwu-98

I guess they're not in order, I'm going to assume they're not since you put Twice first in the last years.

Only changes I'd make then:

I guess you don't consider Exid and AOA 3rd gen, people do but I personally don't consider them either so I'll just ignore them too.

2017 started with MMM stronger than BP but I'd say by the end of the year BP was already above. PWF has better longevity than Decalcomanie which was reflected in 2017, same with AIIYL and You and I that started stronger but had an average long run. The massive start of Square up in 2018 was also because of the hype built up previously by BP. Since MMM was bigger the first half though I'd leave it a tie, I think both are worth to mention.

2020 and 2021 OMG is crearly above Red Velvet and even Twice.

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They are not in order.

I will also not place BLACKPINK above Mamamoo for 2017.

We had a literal direct competition. RBW announced MMM's comeback first and then YG intentionally announced BP later and chose the exact same day as Mamamoo.

One group debuted higher, blocked the other from hitting #1, set a new record for 24 hour unique listeners on MelOn and won every music show that didn't use YT views as part of its criteria. You won't find a more definitive way of determining with group is more popular.

AIIYL ultimately was the more popular song, yes, but Mamamoo absolutely showed they were a more popular group still in 2017.

What criteria are you using to put OMG above Twice or Red Velvet? I don't think their overall numbers measure up at all. What are you looking at?

And no, I don't consider EXID or AOA 3rd gen.

Quote from uwuwu-98

Digital performance. Nonstop and Dolphin in 2020, Dun dun dance in 2021. RV and Twice were really weak these years (RV basically inactive).

So what are your Top 3 for 2020 and 2021?

Quote from uwuwu-98

Just change RV and OMG. Twice still makes it just because of their relevance even if they were underperforming because there wasn't anyone else doing anything relevant.

I still haven't looked at the data, but I wouldn't be opposed to that ranking.

My expertise is mainly concentrated in the peak of 3rd generation during the 2010s.

My interest in K-Pop was admittedly at its lowest point circa 2020/2021.

Tru-Multistan since you upvoted catzi, you better give me some good reasons why.

I gave the numbers for 2016. I gave the argument for 2017.

Speak up

Quote from Tru-Multistan

I just agree with what they said about it not always coming down to pure numbers and charts. Obviously I wasn't a kpop fan then so I have no clue but afaik, BP has been hugely successful and well known from the moment they debuted (Whistle got PAK) and even before, so I do wonder how many people would put them in 16-17, despite not necessarily having the numbers.

But the objective data is the only way we can contextualize the achievements of musical acts, otherwise it's just a bunch of arbitrary and subjective criteria that lead to very opaque and inconsistent conclusions.

I promise you, I wouldn't leave out a girl group if the data and impact they had in any year warranted otherwise, but I lived through every moment of the third generation, and 2016 was absolutely dominated by Twice, GFRIEND and Mamamoo.

The latter two get disrespected for some reason in hindsight, due to big label bias, but there is a reason they were chosen to star in a variety show together. There is a reason Mamamoo was invited to perform at the Blue Dragon Film Festival and their performance went so viral it boosted them to the top of the charts. There is a reason they were the first third generation girl groups to get a Perfect All Kill.

BP didn't even debut until August. Most of 2016 was wrapped up by then, and while they had an explosive debut, their overall numbers weren't really close to the three I chose, and they didn't even have any physical album sales to gauge their fanbase size.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg, as I have a LOT of useless knowledge about third generation girl groups, but my decisions aren't arbitrary or biased. It's all data driven with a hint of just the experience I had being such an active fan during that era, including a few trips to Korea and Japan during the peak of these groups

Quote from Taemin-Identity

2018 is RV’s biggest year in terms of Circle Chart Points.

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Also they released Bad Boy and Power Up that year which are also huge songs

I considered that, but it simply wasn't enough. No Red Velvet song was close to the other top girl group hits of the year, whether it's D4, Starry Night, Bboom Bboom or Dance the Night Away.

2018 Mamamoo was just too powerful. As I've mentioned a lot recently, they were so loved by the public that they dropped a random song with zero promo NewJeans style and got a Real Time All-Kill. That's extremely hard to do for even the most popular girl groups, which they were one of back then.

Red Velvet doesn't have a weak argument for top 3 or anything, and their overall Circle points are actually surprisingly high (I noticed them when looking up the all time best years in the platform), but between Mamamoo's 3 comebacks in one year, the rise of Hwasa, their peak popularity with the public and having just an overall massive year, I give them the edge over Red Velvet, even though Bad Boy is my favorite RV song.

It's not an exact science due to release timing, but this was a step down from their 2017, while Mamamoo stepped up from theirs.

Quote from Tru-Multistan

yea I mostly agree, I just think impact can overcome lack of numbers in a case where it's close, but not for me to say whether or not it did since I wasn't there. Maybe some of the debut blinks will argue you lol.

Yeah, I accounted for impact.

An example?

Both Twice and Mamamoo hosted SNL in 2016. That alone proves how trendy Mamamoo was.

But the kicker?

Mamamoo's episode actually had higher ratings.

These are things I'm sure I'm the only person on the planet remembers, but my brain is filled with little factoids like that.

Another example?

Music festivals.

Mamamoo was the second most requested ARTIST at university festivals behind only Psy. They did as many as 4 in a day and made on average 21k USD per festival.

That's just a snippet of the knowledge found in the veritable girl group encyclopedia that is my brain.

So take my word for it when I say I'm making the list on good authority. One last example.

Rookie is VASTLY underrated by the international K-Pop fandom space. When I went to Seoul in 2017, I heard that song everywhere but people here would never list it as a huge hit. However, I can confirm that I heard the "rookie rookie" hook enough times for it to never leave my brain.

Believe and Trust in Yama

Quote from catzi

Back then ppl would put bp below always because of sales even though they dominated in anything else. All their numbers were bigger than other groups. On youtube, they always RULED. But ppl were adamant that they were only popular in sea countries when that was far from the truth. I was one of the first ppl to say bp was bigger than twice on forums back in the day, no one agreed with me. Then their world tour and the album happened only to prove I was right.

As much as i love facts, sometimes you dont need the data to read what's between the lines.

Quote from monalisalove

Yep, I remember how kpop fans mocked them and saying how they would sell 10k bc they are just famous in sea, but in 2017 BLACKPINK was the first kpop group to debut on Global Spotify Weekly Chart with AIIYL and 2018 happened, but even without physical sales their presence was strong enough and since 2016 they were a top group, just growing each era.

They were absolutely not a top 3 group in 2016. That isn't even debatable.

I gave the numbers. I also tuned in for their debut. I also defended them against spiteful Blackjacks the first month of their existence.

I also argued with Day One Blinks and for literally a year I said, "We all know BP will be the biggest girl group in the industry EVENTUALLY but they are not there yet".

Then it all culminated in 2017, when I was branded a BP anti on OH, because I stuck to my guns, and I will NEVER forget the prediction thread for where BP and MMM would debut on the charts. The amount of disrespect MMM got and the vitriol directed at me.

Most posts looked like:

BP: 2

MMM: 28

Or something like that.

Then a rude awakening happened and reality smacked them all in the face with the biggest humbling that ever happened during third generation.

MMM debuted higher, then quickly climbed to #1 and blocked BP for the entirety of their promotional cycle.

So, as I said back then and will say today, do not doubt or dismiss me when it comes to reading the trends and tea leaves for girl group rankings

Quote from monalisalove

As I said in my first quote, are you saying just in kr or ww? Bc since debut BP presence ww was bigger than any other gg.

Nobody cared that much about global stats in 2016. It barely came up

Please look at the numbers I posted.

BLACKPINK also debuted in August. 8 months into the year. It's incredibly disrespectful to the massive years Twice, GFriend and Mamamoo had, to think BP surpassed them with just a debut that was statistically far below the peaks of the aforementioned groups that year.

Quote from Tru-Multistan

why am I being attacked with girl group facts?

Your catzi upvote gave me an excuse to Yamaxplain the third generation girl groups

Quote from monalisalove

"Nobody" cared bc no group was dominating the ww market or even being a presence there, but this changed with BP and BTS in 3rd gen, specially after 2017.

Okay.

Let me assist.

This was made by Korean fans, and this was made in 2017. I remember having to explain to Blinks back then that they shouldn't be shocked; the hierarchy mirrors exactly how I said the girl groups ranked.

BP made their big jump in 2018. By 2017, they still couldn't go head to head with Mamamoo and win.

They ABSOLUTELY were not top 3 in 2016. I'm happy to debate 2017, because at least an argument can be made for that year, but 2016? No

We need to make a map for the 4th generation groups now. Maybe I'll give it a shot

Quote from monalisalove

In SK I agree they were not top3, but overall they were bc Boombayah went viral viral in that time that even years after it was getting 1M views per day, it was HUGE ww in the kpop community.

And MMM or whatever, just 3 BP songs went #1 and this doesn't make them a flop or the others groups above when their longevity and impact were always bigger like AIIYL case.

I never said they were flops or didn't have a significant debut. I still have BP as a top 2 debut in girl group history behind only NewJeans.

But they didn't debut as a top 3 group. Across the board, they were way behind the top 3 girl groups. In fact, BP didn't make any year-end chart rankings nor did they have ANY album sales to validate their popularity that way. All they had was YT views. That's not enough.

You have to understand that before BP even debuted, Mamamoo was doing a huge joint variety show with GFriend, getting PAKs, getting regular invites to Immortal Song 2 that massively boosted their popularity with the public, getting invited more than any other idol group to college festivals, and closed the year with an instant classic performance at a Film Festival known for its icy reaction to idol stages--a performance that went so well they were invited to perform the next year and they hit #1 on the charts. That's just Mamamoo.

GFriend and Twice had even bigger years.

There is no room for BP or RV in 2016.

Quote from Slayurfaves

are we still obsessed with as if it's your last vs the song mamaoo released was it yes I am?

that's literally thy only thing that mamamoo won over bp considering bp only debuted late 2016

as if it's your last did better at the end of the year though

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in the yearly gaon charts from 2017 as if it's your last was #19 while mamamoo song was lower #44

here is a link

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https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/…tal_top_100_song_of_2017/

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I don't care.

And Antifragile out longevitied Nxde in 2022. That doesn't make LSF a more popular group than I-DLE

Stop coping

Two girl groups released a song at the SAME HOUR, and one group debuted higher, blocked the other from getting #1, set a new record for 24 hour unique listeners, won most of the music shows and stayed on top of the charts for a month.

All you can prove is that the public liked AIIYL more over time, not that BP was the more popular group in 2017.

All the objective data shows Mamamoo was still more popular. If they weren't, explain everything I just listed above without coping.

You can't.

BP wasn't top 3 until 2018. Or they wouldn't have gotten clocked by Mamamoo.

Quote from monalisalove

Boombayah first 3rd gen gg ww hit, amen

But ok, I'll settle with 4th place in 2016, but they are a top3 in 2017

They are not

Quote from monalisalove

So a song doing better in the first month is better than a song that peaked #2 doing better in the year end chart, ok

You can make a very obvious argument for YIA being the less popular song overall, NOT for Mamamoo being the less popular group. This is a very basic analysis of very simple data.

The more popular group is the one who gets all the headlines, attention and listeners when the song first drops.

It's funny to see Blinks still coping over losing so soundly to Mamamoo, when ALL of you predicted BP would both debut higher and easily take #1 on the charts. Neither happened and now years later you still can't just take the L.

BP eventually took the crown the very next summer and never looked back. Take that and be happy.