I hate to do this, but I have to. AKP, we need to have a discussion about the lyrics to ILLIT's new song because wtf

They even have to copy the NewJean's controversy with 'cookie'

So cookie didn't bother you but this does? LOL pick and choose much. Both are disgusting.

Quote from Yama-Chan

I never said Cookie was without controversy.

I said that the energy people had for Cookie is noticeably absent for this song, which doesn't even toe the line of innuendo and goes straight to clear references to having sex.

Let's just call a spade a spade

Illit got 5 fans what do you expect nobody cares about them enough to get angry.

Quote from Yama-Chan

But all the HYBE stans told me they would make sure to stream all of ILLIT's music because they feel so bad about how much they've suffered at the hands of bullies.

Once again, it's the team behind ILLIT that's setting them up the worst.

I saw ILLIT fans are "boycotting" the song and that's why nobody is talking about it.

Hybe stans are compulsive liars.

Illit taking their plagiarism of NJ too far. is this the English version?! I can never tell if Illit vocals are fake because they always sound like AI.

Well it was written by American writers so...

Not saying that makes it any better but you shouldn't be surprised because it is unfortunately common (in America) for kids aged similar to ILLIT (and younger too) to make sexual references in everyday speech.

Yea this is pretty disgusting and a bit more in your face than Cookie, but I think the lyrics for that were disgusting too.

What's odd is I feel like I don't even see lyrics like this from older idols.

How old are they?? I need to know to say something as I stan BB and BP, who are known for their explicit lyrics, but are adults so...

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Well it was written by American writers so...

Not saying that makes it any better but you shouldn't be surprised because it is unfortunately common (in America) for kids aged similar to ILLIT (and younger too) to make sexual references in everyday speech.

Not even an American writer but an israeli solider.....

Quote from Yama-Chan

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Then yes, it's pretty creep and disgusting. I pity them bc yes, begone doesn't know what to do with these girls as they can't shameless copy NJs anymore so let's hope they get better songs with better lyrics.

Quote from Yama-Chan

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Oh how I wish I was joking...

Quote from Daileemidzy

Not even an American writer but an israeli solider.....

Yup. Absolutely repulsive.

I advise a reader of my post (if you indeed wish to read my post) to read my post in its entirety before one forms opinions. It is segmented and may cause confusion as to where my conclusion lies when reading partway through.

I checked out Tick Tack's Korean ver.'s english translation of the lyrics, and noticeably its much more sanitized. "Baby its both" (often parenthesized to be "Tick Tack's english ver.) has much more explicit lyrics, whereas the korean ver uses the metaphor of a cabinet and opening it as a show of vulnerability in first or young loves.

"Baby its both" seems to ditch the whole storyline entirely and pivot towards portraying "wild love" (<< while it doesn't say sex directly, I doubt anyone can just make out passionately overnight for 6 hrs straight. I know what that says about my mind but it is the shortest conclusion to make using the lyrics). It's quite insidious since they've also lined up the "push-pull" dynamic of the song already, and then referencing feelings so intense that "scream[ing]" is involved as well as being "...down bad."

If I needed to spin this such that it was innocent no matter what, the distance is moderate but can be done with some effort.
The feeling of push-pull is often referenced in romantic works regarding wanting the feeling of being near by, but the intensity of that feeling once near by is so high it may be intolerable ("drunk/mad with love"). This can be a dual purpose concept because it is a common trope in romantic works (notably included in non erotic works as well).

Terms like "down bad" are dual meaning words as well. Down bad can refer to severely desiring someone (loving instead of lusting) and thusly doesn't wholly contribute to the sexual nature.

Lastly, The most problematic section :

Quote from Baby It’s Both (Tick-Tack English Ver.) Lyrics By Genius § [Pre-Chorus: Ava Max, Minju]

Gotta, gotta touch you now

Gotta, gotta make up, up, up my mind

Oh, oh, my God

Kinda wanna slam the door

Kinda wanna beg for more

Wanna make up, up, up all night

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The only solution I could come up for this is assuming one is already mad/drunk with love, from simply kissing, They'd want more of it, like a toddler for candy, without any regard for upper limits. I.e. the POV person of the song would like effectively infinite private kissing time.

IF YOU DID NOT READ ALL THE POST SO FAR: This song is riddled with what I consider "dual purpose" terms and concepts. In one set of definitions they could be describing a totally appropriate situation, simply warped by the intensity of young love. IN THE OTHER DEFINITIONS HOWEVER THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING THE INAPPROPRIATE INTERPRETATION AND INDEED IT IS HARD TO MAKE THE APPROPRIATE INTERPRETATION WITHOUT EXTRA WORK. This creates ambiguity as to the original intent of the song. THUS, it provides plausible deniability to the writers while allowing a sexual interpretation to be found. For those who want a direct statement: This is NOT a defense of the song, but rather a condemnation of it, using reasoning and logic from myself.

I don't personally find that intent trumps interpretation (and as such I condemn the writers, but), especially with mass media like kpop songs, simply for the sheer and extreme variety of consumers and their tendencies.^[A] However, most often, people will forgive if the intent wasn't sexual and it was made clear that they were unintentionally negligent or ignorant, not considering that "those people" exist.



[A]: Because of the sheer number of people, the propagation of a correction or an announcement is not guaranteed to reach all consumers listening in. Because of the sheer number of people, Their tendencies (<< yes including "those" tendencies) are varied which can cause a subset of listeners to buck whatever future announcement or disclaimer in its entirety and continue to interpret the song sexually.

We can't discuss stuff we don't know about

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Yup. Absolutely repulsive.

You know that all Israelies needs to do military service and that means they all are "former soldiers", right?

I thought that was AI😅

But on a serious note it is disgusting and I need Belift or Hybe to release an explanation to it cuz these lyrics are wild

Quote from patrik-k

You know that all Israelies needs to do military service and that means they all are "former soldiers", right?

Tell that to the north koreans about the south koreans.

My point is is that one can consider someone repulsive simply for the fact that they were a former soldier of the IDF.

Edit: Clarification: CaraFIME does not consider someone repulsive simply for the fact that they were a former soldier of the IDF.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

That was not what I meant.

Consider the original statement of this post withdrawn. I will leave it up for history's sake.

Quote from patrik-k

You know that all Israelies needs to do military service and that means they all are "former soldiers", right?

Yes, I'm aware.

But still. Former or not, soldiers are supposed to be humble and honorable. What they're not supposed to is a songwriter writing explicit lyrics for minors.

i mean, it just sounds like something a western GG would release. It’s inappropriate for kpop standards, but just regular sexually suggestive western music.

I think it ruins their image a bit in kpop, but maybe HYBE is aiming for western success.

Quote from Kataphract

My point is is that one can consider someone repulsive simply for the fact that they were a former soldier of the IDF.

That was not what I meant.

Quote from sveznalica

We can't discuss stuff we don't know about

My rebuttal to that is that the song definitely have self evident effects that we can talk about. The fact that it can be (keyword>>) easily be interpreted as sexual is already a problem.

Let's assume the problem condition is that a random reasonable listener will believe that this song is sexual. (of course this is an extremely strict condition, but one cannot say 'it is ok for a portion of the population to consider this song sung by a group -with minors in it- sexual and everything's fine')

With 11.9M monthly listeners of ILLIT in the world (source: spotify), let's simplify the problem and assign the coin flip scenario to illustrate our condition.

Heads will be our problem condition stated earlier. Tails will be "anything but" the problem condition.

I have five billion coins, and using the "first heads" variation, used to calculate the probability that at least one heads had occurred.
P(at least one head) = 1 - P(all tails)

but P(all tails) = (1/2)^{11.9 Million} where 11.9 Million is 11,900,000

so P(at least one head) = 1 - (1/2)^{11.9 Million}

(1/2)^{11.9 Million} is essentially zero for many decimal places after the decimal and so P(at least one head) = 1 - 0 which is 1.

Our heads condition was our problem condition which was " a random reasonable listener will believe that this song is sexual." A probability of 1 means that this is certain.

Before we jump to conclusions, let us think this through. This exercise tells us that, if we can establish that enough listeners think that the intention of this song was to be sexual, we can claim with some confidence that a random reasonable listener might consider this song to be sexual. With how many monthly listeners, coupled with our probability exercise, we can assume that:

If a reasonable listener might consider this song to be sexual, then one of all Illit's monthly listeners will definitely consider the song to be sexual.

Thus, we must discuss this and ensure we condemn, hopefully with effect, the nature of this song, "Without certainly knowing" if it is sexual or not.

why am I seeing binomial distributions on a kpop forum

im assuming the song is baby it's both because the link is broken for me

when i first listen to a song, i ignore the lyrics and see if the song grabs my attention, just production wise. it did. i thought the song was good until the second listen and then i started noticing the lyrics. i think i'm a pretty sensitive person. i don't listen to songs if it makes me feel weird.

the lyrics are hella weird. this is coming from a HUGE illit stan btw.

examples:

"Gotta, gotta cut you out

Gotta, gotta touch you now"

i suck at interpreting lyrics but my dumb arse thinks this is about.... yeah im not going to say it on this site

"Kinda wanna slam the door
Kinda wanna beg for more
Wanna make up, up, up all night"

wtf

"Oh, you wanna make me scream
You're so good at that
Wanna pull you close
And then push you right back
When you're kissing me
Oh, you drive me mad
Head and heart's at war
I'm down bad"

this one's just obvious

keep in mind the youngest member, iroha, is 16

the first example i gave was sang by said 16 year old

second example was sang by yunah (20)

part of the 3rd example was sang buy minju (20)

i'm so glad that most of the song is titatitatitatalota.

the worst part is that there is NO native english speaker in illit. the girls probably can't truly comprehend the words they are singing. i don't even mean this in a racist or xenophobic way.

Quote from Tru-Multistan

why am I seeing binomial distributions on a kpop forum

it isn't even binomial distributions. It's just multiplying 1/2 11.9 million times.

Quote from Tru-Multistan

why am I seeing binomial distributions on a kpop forum

wait what you didn't require advance maths credits in order to register for AKP?

Quote from Yama-Chan

what I was trying to say was that if we wanted to calculate the probability of the issue that "at least one listener thought the song was sexual" given that the possibility of it being considered sexual was a possibility, the probability would be so near 1 (complete certainty) that it can be rounded up to 1 with high accuracy (basically complete certainty).

Quote from Kataphract

it isn't even binomial distributions. It's just multiplying 1/2 11.9 million times.

Quote from selfmate

wait what you didn't require advance maths credits in order to register for AKP?

its not even advances mathsssssss

Quote from Kataphract

it isn't even binomial distributions. It's just multiplying 1/2 11.9 million times.

been a bit since I took stats but thats definitely a basic example of binomial distribution/probability afaik? Idk, aint gonna argue maths lol, I just wanted to sound smart.

Quote from Kataphract

its not even advances mathsssssss

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Quote from Tru-Multistan

been a bit since I took stats but thats definitely a basic example of binomial distribution/probability afaik? Idk, aint gonna argue maths lol, I just wanted to sound smart.

haha I got it! (my physics major self was kicking my teeth out when I was trying not to make that probability post KEK)

Quote from selfmate

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My probability calculation was just multiplying 1/2 over and over again. One could argue it was an exponent but not binomial distributions aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa