Do you think Pham Ngoc Han could have replaced Lee Jieun as KPop's It Girl if Pham had been Korean?

  • The name Ngoc Han is often used as a girl's name in the Vietnamese culture.


    The most famous Ngoc Han, before Pham Ngoc Han, was Le Ngoc Han (1770-1799), who was the daughter of the last king of the Le dynasty.


    In 1780s, a peasant rebel named Nguyen Hue, also called Quang Trung (pronounced Kwang tsoong), conquered most of Vietnam and advanced to what is now Hanoi, the capital. The King of Le dynasty, afraid of Hue's power, decided to ally with Hue and gave the King's favorite daughter to Hue as a wife.


    After some intrigues the last King of the Le dynasty was exiled, and Hue became the new King, founding the Tay Son dynasty.


    Hue was 17 years older than Ngoc Han and already had children from several women, typical for a warlord, but despite of that since she was a princess she was made the Chief Queen.

    lam-ro-loi-don-cong-chua-ngoc-han-dau-doc-vua-quang-trung.jpg


    The union of a hardened peasant rebel and a princess is compared to Beauty and Beast in Vietnam.


    Hue beat a massive Chinese invasion in 1787, for which he became a National Hero in Vietnam, but he died of a stroke in 1793.


    After Hue's death, his older brother Nhac and his son (from another woman) Toan began fighting. Ngoc Han, now a widow, wrote a mourning poem for Hue but largely retired from public life.


    Meanwhile, Hue's chief foe, Nguyen Phuc Anh (pronounced Fook Ayn), an ultra-reactionary, ultra-brutal, ultra-anachronitic (remember that I used that word to someone else), and ultra-pro-landowners, landed at Saigon with some French troops who didn't like the Revolutionaries or Napoleon, and began fighting the forces of the Tay Son.


    Anh eventually conquered the Tay Sons, slaughtered every single relative and followers of Hue and his clan, and made Vietnam into a French protectorate. Fortunately Ngoc Han died in 1799, 5 years before all of these happened. (Anh's descendants ruled Vietnam until 1886, and a scion of them was allowed to remain titular king until 1945, but after that their descendants decided it was better to emigrate to France before the people had their revenge on the French puppets. They are never allowed back to Vietnam to this day.)


    ====


    I once called Lee Jieun, stage name IU, as KPop's most u-u-u-u singer, ultrareactionary-ultraisolationist-ultradomestic - ultraanachronistic singer.


    IU would be comparable to Anh, while Pham Ngoc Han appears to be named after the aforementioned princess.


    History does not repeat but it rhymes.


    Despite of IU's great age at 1,344 years old, and she being in the industry for 16 years, she still has the most number of commercial features in Korea, more than anyone else including IVE and New Jeans.


    It is said Ms. Pham is the most popular NJ member in Korea.


    However, Pham Ngoc Han has not become the It Girl in Korea, because of the inconvenient reason that she is not Korean and the Korean sponsors would rather use Koreans to push their products.


    Tzuyu had the potential to become the It Girl of KPop all over Asia but the Huang An shit ended any chance she had, and Sana had her shot but again the Korean sponsors preferred Koreans.


    Jisoo and Jennie had their shots but YG preferred to promote them elsewhere.


    So, at the age of 1,344, IU is still the It girl of Korea, although she is rather now the "It Woman" or , more accurately, the "It Hag" at the age of 1,344.


    Pham Ngoc Han , if she had been Korean, would easily have taken the old singer's position since everyone likes new faces. IU only maintained the position of the It Hag of Korea for the lack of better candidates.


    When Pham Ngoc Han covered a song by the It Hag, it is likely that she was aware of the historical parallel of her namesake and Nguyen Anh. Someone who wanted to bring KPop to the bad old days.


    The mighty endeavor of dethroning KPop's It Hag is now about to be concluded, since the It Hag will just have a fan-only concert with no new songs released in 2023, but given Pham Ngoc Han had the awareness and the motivation to dethrone the It Hag, it is unfortunate that she is not given the chance.

  • nah


    Phampham is already a top hit girl like most nj members are or will be and they will only get bigger. She hasnt left the top 10 in brand value since debut if im not mistaken and she was only second to Minji who is a legendary korean visual but still manage to beat both Haerin and specially Jisoo by millions.


    That’s because in contrary to Tzuyu or even Kazuha she looks korean and her name sounds korean and most importantly, she HAS the HIT factor. Her charms are endless from cute to hip to funny and she is very talented with a unique voice. She has major buzz factor and often trends for the smallest things.


    Now IF she was korean tho she would have been the ULTIMATE hit girl hands down no competition. She would have left no crumbs. Like mix jennie+taeyeon (at her pik). Yes your heard me Taeyon and not IU. Because Phamphams voice overall charms and star factor reminds me a lot of Taeyeon when she was in SNSD.


    Like Taeyeon, she has a very etheral/emotional voice, like Taeyeon she is a major stan attractor, like Taeyeon she is extra smol and cute (the pocket girl), like Taeyeon she is in the biggest GG in the 4th gen by faaar. Etc.


    But she also reminds me of Jennie Because she has that glamorous/hip factor about her. Even her looks have similarities with Jennie, small, round cheeks and face, slender waist etc.


    On the other hand, in apparence Jo Yuri is the one the most similat in visual type and vocal color with IU, but actually, the real 4th gen vocal that comes close in term of vocal color beauty with IU is no one else but ... Winter! Yes aespa Winter! She also has a dual charm like IU both pretty but also extra cute and lovely. (And apparently she is also trained in acting...)

    If handeled properly musically, her voice is so beautiful that i think she is the closest to contend with IUs musical success and legacy. :siptear:

  • That girl has a big stage presence and charisma. Some people are just born with it, like JHope :pepelove1:


    No wonder when she has the center she shines. A moment that comes to mind is in Super Shy. Some people just smile, while others shine bright when they do it at the same time.

  • Thousand of "it girls" happens in Korea
    The question is how they can beat IU stability?


    saying that she would not be a problem for IU, but for girls like Minji, Wony and Karina
    because yes she is extremely loved by koreans and she fits their standards

    the only problem is her nationality
    :pepe-notes:


    -

    also i found interesting her in the Mujin show singing TTN with a guitar
    somehow remember a lot of early IU covers
    It was Min Heejin plans? I dont doubt, that woman is really the best in the game :pepe-notes:

  • Yo your write-up is epic! I agree with that she'd probably be bigger if she were Korean (even though she looks Korean). One thing that does endear her to Knetz is the effort she's put in to learning the language. Apparently she has great pronunciation but still fumbles with vocab sometimes which they find cute.


    Comments from this recent Elle Korea vid is an example:

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    As a contribution to this thread, here is Hanni's Just Wanna Rock dance going viral:


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  • Definitely


    The same reason why Tzuyu and Sana, and other foreign idols haven't become Korean IT girls.


    However their contribution from their global impact to their group is far more than what just being an IT girl in Korea would ever contribute to their group. Korea just doesn't really matter now, as it contributes to maybe 2-3% of what BP or Twice make.


    The next Korea IT girl will be a Korean who is first to get a breakout acting role in a drama. So far the leading contenders are Minju, Yujin, Karina and Eunchae. It wont be anyone from jpy, because ever since Twice debuted, they limit their solo gigs.

    Edited once, last by K-PL ().

  • That girl has a big stage presence and charisma. Some people are just born with it, like JHope :pepelove1:


    No wonder when she has the center she shines. A moment that comes to mind is in Super Shy. Some people just smile, while others shine bright when they do it at the same time.

    She was the only one not being shy to dance with Taehyung in the recent video

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  • Times have changed and no one stays relevant for 13 years. A dominance of 2-3 years then to the world.


    But Lee Jieun has aged a a lot and now that position is up for grabs so if someone can overwhelm others she becomes the new it girl


    Min Heejin helped to manage Shinee, who frequently fought IU, so MHJ knows how to deal with the former owner of Edam. She chose the strategy of NJ first conquering Korea and then to the world so to conquer Korea dealing with its best known digital music figure was needed

  • In the older days the companies did not know how to market the It girls in Korea but now they can parlay it to become something larger in Asia at least

  • Times have changed and no one stays relevant for 13 years. A dominance of 2-3 years then to the world.


    But Lee Jieun has aged a a lot and now that position is up for grabs so if someone can overwhelm others she becomes the new it girl


    Min Heejin helped to manage Shinee, who frequently fought IU, so MHJ knows how to deal with the former owner of Edam. She chose the strategy of NJ first conquering Korea and then to the world so to conquer Korea dealing with its best known digital music figure was needed

    I follow you since 2017

    that time you thought Laboum win would be her end...

    7 years 9 years now the limit is 13 years :ooo-bee:
    Last year you also said that NJ would not be a thing because of f(x) and look now...


    love you essays yknock, but predict the future is not your best

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