what i find weird abt these ive antis

Quote from quarkie

My thing is... if you think the charts are rigged when it's IVE doing well, then why are you out here bragging about what your faves have on that same chart? You just said it was manipulated. If they're controlling who is doing well then that includes your faves too right?

GET THEM QUARK

They aren’t gonna talk about how IVE lost SOTY and Aoty when they were leading and a supposedly group won over them. Quite funny

But I agree this is what I said days ago, and some were getting pissed over anything as It affected their favs in the 1st place. How can you talk about privilege and media play when you Stan a group of the big4 lol. They have been doing that for a decade now.

My gawd are you guys dense??

Do you know WHY LSFM doesn't have IVE's numbers? ITS BECAUSE YOUR SCUMMY ASS GIANT CONGLOMERATE PARENT COMPANY KAKAO SABOTAGED THEIR DEBUT!!!!!

Geeze I never attacked IVE before but you Dives are getting all sort of ridiculous with your defenses and it's getting annoying AF.

Quote from TwicePinkFriend

My gawd are you guys dense??

Do you know WHY LSFM doesn't have IVE's numbers? ITS BECAUSE YOUR SCUMMY ASS GIANT CONGLOMERATE PARENT COMPANY KAKAO SABOTAGED THEIR DEBUT!!!!!

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Geeze I never attacked IVE before but you Dives are getting all sort of ridiculous with your defenses and it's getting annoying AF.

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lol people are really getting up in arms about the wrong things from this scandal. defending ive’s rightful achievements is one thing, but coming for their rival groups which have been CONFIRMED to be the target of smear campaigns orchestrated by ive’s parent company and asking BuT wHy Is LeSsErAfIm fLoPiNg CoMpArEd To iVe EvEn WiTh BiG 4 pReViLeGe is really not the take they think it is lol

The same users again. You can’t make that shit off.

Quote from killthisfenty

The same users again. You can’t make that shit off.

make what shit up? If you can’t even point out a single thing wrong with my post then your attempt at shadiness is just pathetic and useless. i already said multiple times in multiple threads (including this one) that ive’s achievements should not be downplayed with dodgy reasoning. but when ive stans downplay other groups’ achievements even tho the reasoning is just as dodgy it’s all fine and dandy with you and there’s absolutely no problem, and i must be shamed if i point that out? the hypocrisy and lack of self awareness is staggering lol. if you don’t have anything notable or credible to contribute to a discussion then just shut up and avoid clowning yourself

Quote from catzi

so what ur saying is that lsf is flopping bc of kakao even though internationally where kakao's smear campaign doesnt have a reach they also couldnt beat ive

lmao the delusion

whats next

garam being paid by kakao to infiltrate lsf and give them a bullying scandal or ador being paid by kakao so they could write a completely questionable song lyrics for underage girls to sing

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nah i’m not saying any of that, stop inventing narratives and putting words in people’s mouth just bc you want to antagonise them

if you have qualms with people discrediting ive for stupid reasons, you should be the last person to discredit other groups for similarly stupid reasons, least of all the very groups that have been confirmed to be directly tangled in that same messy scandal. it just comes off as tone deaf and hypocritical. we will never know the full extent of how much lesserafim and other groups got affected by kakao’s dirty tactics, and we will also never know how much it had an effect on ive, if at all. everything is speculation at this point and any conclusion drawn is purely subjective and not at all objective, whether it’s to paint kakao’s affiliated groups in a positive or negative light. which is why i have never made any statement about this issue that purposefully attacks any group, whether it’s for kakao groups or rival groups. i suggest you do the same, bc otherwise you just look incredibly biased fully intent on defending ive while dragging other groups with similarly dodgy logic you condemn other people for

also you along with a lot of people seem to misread this report and its implications. they didn’t say that kakao fabricated all scandals for other groups, but stoking the flame and worsened the situations was amongst their schemes. re: garam there were a lot of fabricated lies about her running rampant that had absolutely no basis in reality and what she actually did. she got accused of all sorts of things from stupid shit like throwing a flower pot at people’s head to actually having backdoor favours with hybe’s ceo and that’s why they didn’t drop her right away. she was even said to have been a starship trainee and got kicked from ive and wrote hate comments about sakura. all lies. so do you need more examples of how fabricated internet posts ruined her reputation even more even tho it had nothing to do with what she actually did?

there was a time period when negative articles about lesserafim were published every day, and it was clearly a systematic effort intended to ruin their reputation. it didn’t have to be about serious issues, but a string of negative buzz being paraded for a long time is not nothing. stop trying to defend kakao lol it’s nagl

blaming kakao for hybe's total fumble and complete pr disaster in handling garam's case is a new level of delusion

sure idol issue was shady but hybe gets to claim 90% of lsf and new jeans debut controversies and pretending otherwise is being straight obtuse. and this is from someone who did a fair defending of new jeans on this forum when their controversies erupted so I remember vividly all the timelines and details.

Quote from Whi

nah i’m not saying any of that, stop inventing narratives and putting words in people’s mouth just bc you want to antagonise them

if you have qualms with people discrediting ive for stupid reasons, you should be the last person to discredit other groups for similarly stupid reasons, least of all the very groups that have been confirmed to be directly tangled in that same messy scandal. it just comes off as tone deaf and hypocritical. we will never know the full extent of how much lesserafim and other groups got affected by kakao’s dirty tactics, and we will also never know how much it had an effect on ive, if at all. everything is speculation at this point and any conclusion drawn is purely subjective and not at all objective, whether it’s to paint kakao’s affiliated groups in a positive or negative light. which is why i have never made any statement about this issue that purposefully attacks any group, whether it’s for kakao groups or rival groups. i suggest you do the same, bc otherwise you just look incredibly biased fully intent on defending ive while dragging other groups with similarly dodgy logic you condemn other people for

also you along with a lot of people seem to misread this report and its implications. they didn’t say that kakao fabricated all scandals for other groups, but stoking the flame and worsened the situations was amongst their schemes. re: garam there were a lot of fabricated lies about her running rampant that had absolutely no basis in reality and what she actually did. she got accused of all sorts of things from stupid shit like throwing a flower pot at people’s head to actually having backdoor favours with hybe’s ceo and that’s why they didn’t drop her right away. she was even said to have been a starship trainee and got kicked from ive and wrote hate comments about sakura. all lies. so do you need more examples of how fabricated internet posts ruined her reputation even more even tho it had nothing to do with what she actually did?

there was a time period when negative articles about lesserafim were published every day, and it was clearly a systematic effort intended to ruin their reputation. it didn’t have to be about serious issues, but a string of negative buzz being paraded for a long time is not nothing. stop trying to defend kakao lol it’s nagl

Damn bro weewee you wrote an entire novel

Quote from catzi

is that they are using the kakao situation to pretend ive's success is all fake, when kakao could easily do the same for stayc, wjsn and weeekly, that are also ggs under their umbrella, but no one talks about that.

I do think antis exaggerate the level of help Kakao used to help IVE, But that is everywhere, people exaggerated the deal that YG and Spotify made for the BlackPink comeback.

But just to cover the point of why they do not help the others, is because as a company they can help those that help themselves, so it is easier to get IVE from say Top 3 to a top 1 (as an example, not that it happened), than getting WJSN to chart top 100.

I have no issue with companies media playing to help their artist, it is their job to do so.

My issue with this story is that Kakao seem to have been using their influence to damage other artists, that is a problem.

Quote from thebadguy

Damn bro weewee you wrote an entire novel

and you certainly find new ways to embarrass yourself everyday. is kindergarten humour really the best you can come up with, how devastating some edgelord wannabe you are

I think people can rightfully drag Kakao without downplaying or questioning IVE's achievements. Otherwise sounds more like opportunism to put down the 'rival' group of their faves instead of genuine concern. Almost like if they were happy their faves were dragged, so they can cope on internet.

Quote from catzi

what u say may be sabotage to lsf in korea, but not really overseas as these rumors barely had any impact to ifans.

i am not defending kakao cause i know what they did was shit, i am defending ive bc people now are feeling brave enough to discredit them and every point in op still stand.

that user said that lsf was sabotaged by kakao but that excuse can only be applied if we're talking about sk. it does not explain how ive did better than them and any other group internationally, and thats what my op is addressing in case you didnt noticed.

lets not pretend that hybe is a powerless company btw, lsf and ive had almost identical backgrounds with the exception that ive didnt had the biggest group in the world as sunbae nor debuted in a channel with over 60m subscribers

i’ve reread your op multiple times but found no specific indication anywhere saying that you’re talking about international achievements only; it just looks like the topic is about general achievements everywhere .. the 60m subscribers thing is only a very small fraction of international metrics of success so if you wanted to refer to that to imply this thread is only talking about international success specifically it definitely wasn’t clear at all So i’m not surprised if someone else had the same understanding i did and made a reply to retaliate the point they understood