Posts by Queeeenie

Quote from SandyBee3

I have no interest in provoking you … I won’t get anything from it.

Maybe I’m repeating myself because you do

But don’t you see things pretty one-sided ? If there are people making these Threads and you think they have malicious intentions, couldn’t it be that some are trying to trigger out of revenge?

I mean you say there is a reason why people respond the way they do, it applies to both sides then.

Drew is just out there trying to start Drama, he/she said it themself lol. Idk why you take his/her Thread serious.

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That's what I got from you when you said I must be insecure if I was offended, out of the blue.

I never accused you of anything though, that's the difference.

It wasn't him as much as the replies, he actually like my post. It's one of many similar threads I see littered about. Even if they are not intentionally malicious I think they are evasive when confronted about certain gaps they left in their theories.

It does apply to both sides, and I think triggering purely for revenge is silly. Even if you dislike 3rd gen groups they still made a lot of ways on their own and even if you dislike 2nd gen groups they still had popularity/influence.

4th gen also will also deserve credit for how far they will go relative to where they started.

It started with the older fans though, no? Newer fans are not so interested in analysing those less active groups to begin with.

Let's say that groups that debuted this year end up bringing kpop to a new peak, it would be 3rd gen fans who try to claim it and newer fans retaliating.

Quote from SandyBee3

No, I got your post, but i nothing of what you said convinced me.

Just stop discrediting the 2. Gen when they are discussed. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand.

Al that , but this and that feels like an excuse to continue…

I've already said this. I don't think previous generations were irrelevant. Newer groups obviously have a different starting point.

So I don't know why you are repeating yourself or trying to provoke me.

If you look at the context in which 2nd gen is being discussed and consider the nuances you will know why people respond the way they do.

I'm assuming you've seen Drew's thread?

I mean someone else in this thread is mad that fans say a group's success is paving the way for the future and thinks it means that they don't know groups existed before them.

On another note said, people said certain groups would fail based on previous groups ventures which just shows that "impact" cannot be easily defined or predicted.

I'm conflicted.

The stickers and description are really not working in their favour for me.

I'll have a think. Might be worth buying one of the older albums I don't have instead.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

Anyway when I say BTS is pushed I mean the million vlives BTS got. I remember in 2016 when I got into kpop how armys used to claim they couldn’t keep up with BTS content. How can people say BTS wasn’t pushed lol. THATS PUSH. That’s being excessively and deliberately pushed and marketed.

Being pushed doesn’t mean US promo or US label that’s so silly. Why are people pretending like as if having accessible content in a global platform isn’t one of the biggest push you can ever get? SM was never invested in making EXO more accessible globally and there is no two ways about this.

Honestly if BigHit wanted to plan world domination for BTS from back then, they wouldn't have waited til 2019 for fans to trend a hashtag to put English translations on their youtube channel, literally the most visible platform even without their music videos being on there (another dumb move), and their membership stuff which is paid content. They would have also given them all English lessons.

Vlive is not like Youtube, Twitter, Instagram etc.

Westerners don't know what it is until they get into kpop or maybe kdramas, and it has been around for less than 6 years.

Kpop fans would follow the groups they interested in, likely after watching their music videos and performances and other content on youtube, to see some real time content.

2016 was actually the year Run!BTS went on hiatus. Their vlives that year were just done during their (minimal) free time, there was no fixed schedule. Like on Twitter they pretty much did what they wanted to. It was very laid back. Some members did more live streams more than others just due to their own personality, which is much the same now.

Vlive was not some holy grail, they were using it more or less like they would use any other platform. Being in front of the camera is still work for them of course but they did it out of their own volition, from before they debuted, Bang Si Hyuk has said this.

Quote from blank00

Is it the one towards the end?

It's at 3:15 in the lyric video, in the background

Jungkooks 11 note riff on 'day' is underrated

I came here to say that

Quote from SandyBee3

You must be very insecure if you get offended by this. If you know your faves achievements are not interchangeable why get offended by a hypothetical question? It’s all could’ve should’ve didn’t.. Maybe it’s just me but I play a long lol.

Not offense, maybe disdain.

You took that out of the context of my post.

I think music shows have the most lipsynch out of any other showcase.

They basically exist to promote the choreo.

You can see how Taeyong does the cute gesture and closes his mouth instead of singing stars, but you can still hear his voice at the same volume, and the vocals on the backing track completely drown out their voices in the chorus (also happens in that touch comeback stage in the chorus).

But it's fine, I understand why idols want to preserve their voice. I like Touch, those pink outfits suited them.

Live performances in other places are a better measure.

I did watch some of their recent sm concert performances, like make a wish and kick it, and even the rapping wasn't live?

Obviously they won't lip synch all the time though.

Quote from SandyBee3

So if you talk about who prepared you for your future, will you talk about your parents or grandparents ? For the 3.gen the 2. Gen was relevant, for the 2. Gen the 1. Gen was relevant, it’s about the direct connection.

If Kpop as a whole is discussed the 1. Gen always gets mentioned. I mean a lot of you know about some of the Groups so it’s not like they won’t get mentioned. So I don’t get what you are talking about?

Also not like any of you really care for the 1. Gen, you just use this as a new narrative to justify the disrespect lol.

I'm not asking for 1st gen to be recognised for their sake, I don't have a need to defend them when they are not attacked. I'm giving an example to show how they are not being consistent.

2nd gen had many successes, but if they were not being scoffed at for trying to claim their own successes at the heights of their career then it should not be happening now.

We know why they are saying these things at this time, creating alternate presents and futures to prove how things should have been and how they will be in a way that paints current top groups as interchangeable and their success inevitable, despite the evidence against that.

Older groups are not irrelevant, I'm not advocating for that, it's so extreme.

In general conversation about kpop, 2nd gen groups come up the most. It's not about direct connection, but more so the number of 2nd gen fans that are still here.

Quote from SandyBee3

Who isn’t? I can’t remember anyone shading the 1.gen.

Not shading, but giving credit to.

People will say that 3rd groups like BP and BTS are products of previous groups' successes but then ignore 2nd gen's predecessors in that same context.

People go silent when that is mentioned.

I am not saying 3rd gen was the very first root either, just that they made a hell of a lot of progress.

what 'screaming'?

She isn't even belting

She is also singing more live than I've seen solo kpop artists sing before

That was flawless ngl

Jimin would be proud

Quote from daniel-cruz

That "Some KPOP groups Now" doesn't include EXO so i couldn't care less about it.

Like, Come on, BTS had opportunities, EXO didn't and it's okay. No one is discrediting BTS for that. The point is lot of people from your fandom has convinced themselves that EXO had same opportunities and they couldn't do it. That's simply not true.

Anyway, Have a good day. This discussion is over.

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I mentioned other groups because people thought early 3rd gen groups had it like that, when it wasn't the case. Those are not the same opportunities.

You're just repeating yourself here. Can you elaborate?

BigHit/BTS would not have done shit had BTS fans moved exactly like EXO fans, that's what I was explaining in my post. They could have pushed BTS in 2016 but they didn't, they waited.

It's not about whether they could or couldn't do it, it's not like they were the same group and the only difference was level of company intervention. The demand was different, and like you said, no one is discrediting EXO for that, they would have just had to use a different method.

You have the cause and effect mixed up.

Imagine saying this about the times EXO closed award shows or performed at the olympics, even though they had the numbers/status to back it up.

If we ignore the steps leading up to an event then what is the point of comparing at all.

Quote from daniel-cruz

I don't think what BS you said made any sense.

We are talking about strictly Western Promos not Asian. Interviews, Award Shows attendace or performance and Talk Show appearance or Performance.

You sound massively delusional if you think both had same chances to blow up IN WEST.

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They didn't have any talk show appearances until after their bbma win.

They weren't pushed onto talk shows by the company either, the fans campaigned for it.

Wings set iTunes and BB200 records there without promo, album distribution or a Friday release. All they had done in the US up til that point was a few small venues, like theatre size.

They also only performed at award shows there where they actually won awards.

Some kpop groups can now play in US concert series, perform on US talk shows, release English singles and sign with a US label early on in their career without proving themselves before hand on the charts, and without the 'phenomenon' label (which is fine btw, it's not a bad thing). BTS' conditions were not the same.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

I mean I listen to kpop playlists they must have some of those songs. And they’re just not interesting enough to ever grab my attention lol and remember them. Much like BGs in general tbh. It’s just way it is.

I stay the hell away from those spotify kpop playlists tbh

They're kinda meh for me.

These are two completely different groups from two very different agencies, I don't know why their careers are still being compared in 2021. I mean I know why but the reason is silly.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

I just know the same ppl with

Ehh that’s the same way I feel about BTS. For me BTS has never been anything more than big bang/BAP 2.0 and in a playlist if BTS stray kids even nct on occasion and some of these other boy groups play back to back for the life of me I cannot tell the difference.

It all depends on what appeals to you.

I can recognise EXO songs because of their voices, but appeal aside, there aren't really any songs in those groups' discography that you mentioned that are like serendipity, singularity, bs&t and 134340, to name a few. Unless you are really familiar with BTS' discography, you won't know. BTS also just has a bigger discography than those groups and has gone through a lot more changes.

Quote from frala19

Who is they, exactly? Anyway, if it's true, it's unsurprising. There have been pettier reasons why an artist was "snubbed". In case you haven't realized, I really don't like the Grammys. Haha. I think it has done more harm than good to the industry overall. But anyway, I haven't done much looking into that specific case, as I'm not losing any sleep over it. Screw them and honestly screw The Weeknd too.

Oh you know, mysterious "sources" and "insiders" close to the situation.

It's okay, I don't think anyone likes the Grammys.

Are you voting this year btw do you have to since you're a member?

Quote from Drew_B

Go back in time and stop TVXQ and BigBang from ever happening. Then come back to 2021 and see what you got waiting for you.

Absolutely nothing.

Now. Go to 15 years into the future from today and see where kpop is then come back to 2021 and tell me what you saw.

More of the same. But in a much smaller scale cause kpop is probably a shell of its former self.

For BTS to "pave the way" they have to make it possible for other groups to be as successful as them. And so far that's not happening. Not even close actually.

TVXQ can make more money in one Japan tour than BTS can in a world tour.

Last time BigBang released a song it charted #1 and broke records and they didn't even promote it cause they were in the military.

BTS is doing good though.

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The Beatles were extremely successful and no other group after them managed to do what they did.

No one has the same status as MJ either.

Does that negate their impact and influence?

Quote from Versatile

i was avoiding this topic.

But i feel as though people don't really understand the impact TVXQ had on kpop.. without TVXQ there would be no suju... without them there would be no exo.

Without exo nobody would sell over a million albums.

Tvxq played a vital part in bringing kpop back to life. And when they disbanded? It is lucky that super junior and bigbang were there to save the day. 3rd gen stans or 4th gen stans have no need to get offended tvxq and BB simply were more vital to kpops roots than they are. Kpop would still survive without them but kpop wouldnt have survived back then without those 2 groups.

There is many groups selling well these days, this was not the case back then.. only a few groups could dare sell more than 200k albums. These groups did pave the way and people should realize that. Its not insulting to say so. Your faves werent even debuted yet when they did.

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Maybe in 5 years time we'll be saying 'there are many groups selling well these days, only a few groups could dare sell over 800k albums'.

It's not fair to judge the impact of 3rd gen so definitively right now, or even BTS'. BTS sold 1m first with a single version of an album, no repacks or chinese albums, so did they 'pave the way' for other groups to do that?

You're just using physical albums as criteria, but what about digitals/streaming? What about the geographical distribution of them? Visibility across certain publications and platforms? 3rd gen impact is already showing up there.

Usually everyone says that it was the rise of social media that benefitted kpop/BTS more than anything else, but it isn't being mentioned here, and I'm not surprised.

We could really go back to the 90s with this, even 2nd gen groups wouldn't exist if the groups before them hadn't had any impact on the music scene. If you remove h.o.t, shinhwa, s.e.s, g.o.d, even boa, then what would idol culture be like?

What about seo tai ji and the boys? You take YG out and then you'd probably have to take away BigBang.

At some point you have to stop and give some credit to all of these groups for their successes.

Quote from frala19

The Grammys have always been like that, and I've barely paid attention to them over the past few years, despite being a voting member myself. There is no gauge of "expertise". Literally all that is required is to be working in the industry and have 2 people vouch for you. They are literally 100% politics, as are most award shows. A lot of people are bringing up the Weeknd, as if he's the only artist who many people think "deserved" a nomination but never got one. He probably pissed off someone (likely more than one) powerful, which is unsurprising given the kind of person he is.

They think it is to do with his planned superbowl performance