Posts by Yama-Chan

Quote from icyruios

I care about charts a lot

We know.

Spare us the overly dramatic soliloquy next time.

And stop spreading salt all over the threads nobody is forcing your triggered ass to participate in

Quote from sveznalica

Yama.... this is why I wait things out

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Why? It's a chart thread. It's to see how the song performs. I'm waiting a hour to see how they move on the daily charts heading into the weekend.

Quote from thelightoftruth

I think you need to go to the Ive vs Aespa thread and change your vote to teach Icy a lesson

Unlike icy, I'm not petty, insecure, immature or an eager hypocrite, so I wouldn't change my vote just to spite them.

That's despite the fact they're clearly rooting for NJZ's disbandment. The funniest part is that even if NJZ is gone, it isn't IVE but aespa who takes their spot, something icy cares deeply about while trying to convince themself as much as us that they don't.

I said what I said

I linked the creator of BP admitting how obsessed he is with SNSD, and how he lost confidence in replicating them before deciding to return to the same formula he used with 2NE1, and some users really tried to act like I'm crazy or toxic for questioning Blinks who boldly claim BP is the most impactful girl group.

By that logic, Stray Kids is more impactful than Big Bang. If it's all about bigger numbers at least.

David and Taemin-Identity are right to draw a line between impact and success/popularity.

Quote from gerrard174

Im interested in this.

Cause most of the time i only heard "numbers" whenever someone brought up NJ

I could do this easily, but I'll keep it short to avoid derailing my own thread.

But NJZ was different from the moment they debuted. Literally.

• A zero promo/teaser multiple MV drop out of nowhere
• Not even putting their songs on streaming platforms for weeks so that people could learn the group through said MVs
• The approach of treating almost literally every song as a title track with its own promotional period
• The creative methods of storytelling using multiple cuts of different MVs for most of their songs
• Intentionally eschewing the traditional K-Pop song formulas for something completely different and novel at the time
• The seemless integration of their branding and adroitly interweaving it into strong existing brands like Apple or The Powerpuff Girls
• Creating their own app to stay in constant connection with their fans in a way that feels like you're just chatting and texting with your friends (this has already been emulated by MEOVV)
• Working with creators and producers who have zero interest or background in K-Pop but wanted to be a part of something special with NJZ

And I could expand on each of those, knowing that I also left some bullet points off the table.

I talk about their numbers because they are historically unprecedented in such a short time frame, but their impact and influence is something I could discuss WAY more if I wanted to, and the conversation wouldn't involve numbers.

Can you do something similar for BLACKPINK?

Quote from David33

I know what YG said: We wanted to debut a YG girl group like SNSD, but we failed, so we instead debuted the pretty version of 2NE1.

This isn't a shade about BP, btw! I'm just repeating what Daddy Yang said. 😅

For the first time in about a month, you're cooking something here David.

Thank you for deciding to not unflop my thread that is already on its 4th page.

Anyway.

How funny is it that I can source AKP itself for the obsession YG had with SNSD

I realize people might be too lazy to read, so I'll post the comments directly.

In all honesty, I wanted to create a group like Girls' Generation. It's not an area where I'm an expert in but I wanted to create a group of pretty girls who could sing well. I don't know if it's because of a tendency I have, but I focus more on talent over looks. Even if someone is so beautiful, if they don't have the talent that I want, it won't work."

He continued, "I was also quite jealous of Girls' Generation. I thought...what if a bunch of pretty girls do hip hop? When I look at Wonder Girls I always thought it would be fun if they sang YG style songs. However, as time passed, my plans started to fall apart. I originally chose the girls because they had cute faces, but since they fell short on the talent I had required, it went from dozens of girls to only 6 left. Even at this point, I still don't think I can be 100% satisfied. I'm not sure if the group will consist of 5 members or 3."

Quote from Taemin-Identity

Success have some correlation with Impact but it is never success≠impact. Cuz if success would be all it to take, then Taylor Swift would be most impactful female artist in history of Music.

1. BP songs being bigger globally doesn’t really mean anything. They aren’t mainstream anywhere except China and Korea(maybe Thailand too), just like most Kpop artists and groups, so their songs will not be remembered in those countries either way.

2. Paved the way for the west? It was Wonder Girls who was the first GG to enter BBH100, it was Red Velvet who was the first GG to enter Spotify USA. Their sales in US are also lower than Twice. Girl Crush? 2ne1 paved the way for that. And as YG himself said BP are prettier version of 2ne1. If you want to claim they repopularized Girl Crush so be it. But they never paved the way for that.

3. Timeless means, it can stand the test of the time, and doesn’t age like milk. Timeless means their songs will be remembered by GP. Timeless means- it becomes classic. By changed by lives, I mean impacted lifof people. Just like how SNSD changed how people looked at GGs. Or how Into The New World’s lyrics can resonate with so many people, and is played to encourage people even in most stressful Political Times giving hope for the person.

4. Their songs formula and lyrics are basically the same every comeback, since 2018. They show how they are rich, they sing some onomatopoeia, same drop, same instruments, same chanting, and same outro. How that makes their discography stellar? Their songs are mainstream, but the songs aren’t good and many many people agree with that.

5. Changing the industry can be felt and seen. Did they introduce new genre in Kpop? Did they change some rules? Did they change perception on how people looked at GGs or idols? Were they the first self produced Girl Group, like their labelmate Gdragon? Did they invent kpop lightstick? Did they end slave contracts? Were they the pioneers of Girl Crush? and etc etc etc…

Do they really have performance that will be remembered for generations? Like it is a standard for kpop groups.

So my question is: What is bp will be remembered for? Then you can see their impact. For their performances? I doubt. For their vocals? I doubt. For Changing the industry? I doubt. For timeless classics? I doubt. For being pioneers in some kind of genre or concept? I doubt. etc etc etc

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Right now the only answer I've seen is "big number", which is a very poor argument in my eyes.

I could talk AT LENGTH about the impact of NJZ in their sub 3 years career without saying a word about their ridiculous numbers.

I like this video as an example of multigenerational once in a lifetime type impact

You have one of the biggest political crises that South Korea has faced, and the protestors are playing a bunch of current hit songs...but mainly an iconic SNSD song, Into The New World, which saw a big increase in streaming during that time period.

I know everyone here likes to take the Korean out of K-Pop, but that's an important part of this conversation too

Quote from gerrard174

What you achieve by using boygroup as benchmark to determine impact of girl group?

Is impact contingent on girls outdoing the guys?

You randomly selected a metric that SNSD outdid boygroup at that time but ignored all other metrics that BG > SNSD

Also, in gen 3 we have BTS an anormalie that none of the kpop since existence could possibly surpass. Removing this outlier BP is #1 during their peak years.

You also said it like BP never achieved something other BG or most kpop groups didnt achieve:

- They headlined coachella, the first asian artiat too

- surpassed Justin bieber in YT subscription

- highest charting kpop GG in billboard hot 100

- most viewed video group video, even more than BTS

- first kpop GG song to reach 1bil streams

- honorary MBEs by Britain

The list can go on, but none so blind as those who will not see.

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This was a very...strange argument. I challenged Blinks to present arguments that weren't just achievement spam and here we are. Talking about honorary MBEs.

Is this the best argument you have? That BP did lots of big numbers is not something I'm disputing.

I'm asking what makes them more impactful in the industry than SNSD.

And yes, there is tremendous value in being the blueprint and pioneer in your industry. SNSD changed what we can expect and anticipate from a top girl group forever.

One could argue BP is just 2NE1 except more catered to a Western audience.

Quote from selfmate

I'm not saying success = impact - my argument would be that success is one of the determinates when considering impact whether that's the most important or just one of I'm yet to decide

that's interesting - can a group be impactful without having the success to justify it's impact?

also I'm not arguing about SNSD's impact since they are a very impactful group

I also don't need to argue that BP is 100% more impactful than SNSD

and thus I don't need to argue BP's impact in the industry

since the premise of your title is "there is nothing to indicate" - key word being nothing

all I have to show is that there is at least something to indicate BP's impact being greater than SNSD

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Since you're a fence rider and I have limited time, I'm devoting my efforts to the more passionate Blinks in here, who clearly can't handle this conversation without getting overly emotional and defensive other than Daisy.

But I see and acknowledge your play. Hence the lightbulb reaction.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

SNSD caused inflation

In a sense, yes. No girl group before SNSD had EVER been as big a global superstar. Without social media, their reputation grew big enough for them to at least attempt breaking through in America before we were truly ready to embrace K-Pop like we did at the tail end of the previous decade.

Nobody knew the bar for girl groups could be set so high until SNSD did it.

And that's not even speaking to their cultural impact back home in Korea (not that I could speak on this as well as any of the older Korean users here).

We can't forget that BP was ALMOST YG's SNSD. He tried very hard to pull it off and failed before almost "settling" for another 2NE1 but "pretty" (his words not mine)

Quote from CaraFIMIE

next its going to be:

they need top 0.5 for this comeback to be considered a success

At the end of 2023, I predicted LSF to become the second biggest girl group in K-Pop.

So yes, my expectation and hope for them is to at least get a top 10 hit again. That would be a promising start to their road to recovery from a horrific 2024.

Quote from gerrard174

There are a lot of indicators that signify BP has bigger impact than SNSD

1) BP's IG, Twitter, youtube followers number are much bigger (Twitter & YT have existed in SNSD era)

2) BP appearance on IFPI sales

3) The reach to fashion world via endorsements and fashion show appearances

Kpop has much much much wider reach to the world now against back then. It would be insane if you think that any Gen 2 artists have more impact than the top few of Gen3. They are not comparable.

If you talk about cultural impact, all of us here have no rights to compare between the gen. Gen 2 might feel more legacy to some because some of us went through that generation of kpop while gen 3 is relatively new. Gen 3 legacy will be felt by the younger generations of fans that never gone through gen 2, just like majority of Gen 2 fans that never gone through gen 1.

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I can retreat back to sports again.

The NBA is WAY more global today, thanks to social media and efforts to expand the game into different countries, especially compared to the 90s.

Michael Jordan is still considered, by far, the most influential and impactful player in the history of basketball and American sports. Probably the world.

Don't believe me? Ask debut era Momo and see whose jersey she's wearing.

My point is that you can't measure impact purely using numbers that are heavily influenced by the time period in which they occur. Social media was at its infancy when SNSD was active, just like it didn't even exist when Jordan was active.

Despite its absence, their impact was IMMENSE. If anything, that's a testament to the power of SNSD. They grew that big without the power of social media platforms.

One could even argue that SNSD is the Michael Jordan of K-Pop girl groups.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

There were more groups attempting the Blackpink model during their peak than groups attempting SNSD's during their peak.

Late 3rd gen, early 4th gen was absolutely polluted with girl crush concepts and those groups were generally outperforming their peers

You can look down on BP for being "influencers" but so many 4th gen groups are being pushed in that direction because it worked

I missed this so I'm circling back.

I can somewhat use this argument against you.

There were more groups attempting the BP model, because there were more groups overall, not necessarily because BP was more impactful.

Now ask yourself why there were far more girl groups by the time third generation took off.

During the first generation, there were barely any girl groups and they were overshadowed by the big boy groups. So that leaves one generation primarily responsible for the rapid growth of girl group music and their viability and ability to be competitive with boy groups--second generation.

It truly was the Girls' Generation.

That's impact to me. They altered the very fabric of the industry AND inspired numerous generations of idols groups that followed them.

Quote from selfmate

with all due respect my friend that's your opinion and whilst I don't necessarily think purely having more album sales or charting higher implies more impact I do think that those objective criteria (not just limited to album sales and charting) deserves it's consideration in the overall impact picture - they are but one of many considerations one has to consider when discussing impact so I agree with your para 3

para 4 and thus I would then hesitate to make the argument that there might be something to indicate BP is more impactful than SNSD that the premise of your title is has been "disproven"????

para 5 - do you consider new people either becoming new fans (of either a specific group or kpop generally) to be impactful?

para 6 - absolutely agree my friend

para 7 - sorry was there a typo there? I absolutely agree that every group is built upon the successes and pavements of their predecessors. One can rightly argue that SNSD paved the way for GG that follow however one can just as easily make the claim that BP also paved the way for GG that follow in certain circumstances as well no?

para 9 - that's great my friend I wasn't around kpop back then but I can see both 2ne1 and BB left their mark not just in YG but kpop overall and I would agree that SNSD was a hugely impactful group

yama I'm a fence sitter I've never lash out (unless it's to troll you)

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Me trying to figure out what you're responding to while using my phone

I wish you'd just quote me selfmate

Our resident maknae already took the words right out my mouth...or off my fingers?

I think we should be careful not to conflate success with impact. I DO think they're connected and somewhat correlated, because it's hard to be tremendously impactful without being tremendously successful too, but they are NOT the same.

And when the conversation is about two massively successful groups, like SNSD and BP, we can start to look at other criteria and accomplishments to see what sets them apart in the context of who is more impactful.

For example, if we stay in the world of sales, at their peak, SNSD was outselling the top boy groups of their era, and their generation was the FIRST generation where girl groups proved they could fill arenas, sell hundreds of thousands of albums and be just as lucrative and sustainable as their boy group peers.

That was a HUGE milestone for all girl groups. Imagine what the state of the industry might be if companies didn't see how SNSD turned into one of the biggest K-Pop acts of all time, rivaled only by Big Bang ultimately.

THAT is impact.

What's BLACKPINK 's impact on the industry compared to that?

Some interesting tea

Quote from ISaidISaid

This is just your personal opinion.

Quote from ISaidISaid

SNSD and 2nd gen music is trashy and forgotten. It’s not some universal truth that SNSD’s music was better or more iconic.

The fact that 2nd gen fans really think that the grating terrible music from the 00s is something significantly better than BP or what’s released now is really funny lol.

Quote from ISaidISaid

This is just your personal opinion

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

In a way, isn't this thread a testament to Blackpink's impact?

Having people love you is one thing but being so iconic and impactful that people wish for it to be anyone else but you is also hella legendary.

I've been on akp for 6ish years off and on but this insistence on denying Blackpink's impact is probably the only thing that's never ever changed. Blackpink is 9 and yet people still fight over them like a rookie group

People don't want them to be IT and that's exactly why they are IT.

This is also why I'm just not worried about NJZ. The sheer amount of people celebrating their "downfall", wishing the worst on them, making excuses for any achievement they have speaks more than any chart imo

Only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

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All fair points that I certainly can't disagree with, a a Bunny.

My only counter to that would be that I never denied BP's impact; I just don't see the argument for that impact being greater than SNSD, a group that is considered a national treasure on the same level as kimchi. A group YG spent years chasing before finally giving up and sticking to what he knows (the next 2NE1)....before arguably trying for it again with BM.

Quote from ISaidISaid

No you wouldn’t lol.

Sure I would.

It's a misconception to think I'm fueled by tribalism and not just a desire for entertaining conversations about hobbies I enjoy.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Blackpink just keep beating MMM and NJZ in every single poll and is significantly more impactful and relevant than either of those groups lol. That’s what he’s really triggered about.

If I didn't stan either of those groups, I would still be making the exact same threads.

There was a time where I stanned BESTie, EXID BEFORE Up and Down, and Mamamoo in their rookie year.

I'm not a success stan. So such things would never trigger me actually

Quote from Taemin-Identity

Well what I said is true, and there is no shade to it. Just like how I admit that Aespa’s bsides aren’t stellar half of the time, or how they aren’t the most impactful girl group of their era and etc etc….

Their B-Sides are all Girls level aka mid at best. It's the most disappointing thing about aespa, since f(x) and RV have such amazing discographies with incredible B-Sides

I think you may have gone a bit far with the Instagram influencer comment, but on second thought, I often see Blinks bragging about all the brand deals BP got (surprised that hasn't come up), so maybe it's not completely unfair.