Posts by Disevidence

After years of mostly alignment or convergence, we are now seeing a divergence again of kpop along Korean Listeners (and Asian listeners) compared to International Listeners.

I predict next year we'll have even more separation of groups that go successful in Korea Charts (melon) vs "International Charts" (the joke that is spotify, but it's still the best we have despite it's payola metrics).

There's been Supernova, and APT, but apart from those 2 huge crossovers, more and more of the Korean top has been Korean oriented "fresh" songs like Happy, T.B.H and Fate, while the plethora of groups like Babymonster, Badvillain, Meovv in the international space to me suggests a fragmenting of listening bases.

So yeah, my hot take for next year is Korean Top Groups and International Top groups may be almost entirely "separate".

It's not directed by Soyeon.

Quote from prodigy210

But do big 4 groups have public support or large fandoms? I don't think majority of new groups are well loved by gp of korea based off of chart performance especially boy groups but by company stans. So I guess the point is at what point are large fanfoms actually count as gp.

The issue isn't just public support, it's public recognition.

Their songs may not be charting, but the labels are so universally known that everytime they debut a group it's something that can sit up and make people take notice. So that in turn generates both GP support and fandom because of the high visibility of those labels.

You think Riize is charting high on debut if they debuted from some 5 staff nugu agency? Not on your life.

You've got Big 4 group fans in here saying they don't need the public, but it's precisely the high value of public recognition and perceptiveness to those labels that drives the fandom in the first place.

The concepts of fandom and GP aren't distinct separate entities. They're intertwined and it's beyond nonsense to suggest they don't heavily impact each side.

Also ironic the people in this thread who don't think that public support/public recognition are needed or as useful are stans of big 3 labels where the public recognition of those labels fuels their groups success.

Amazing lack of introspection.

Quote from David33

There are "freaks" like BoA, SNSD, IU, Taeyeon, GDragon and some others but that's all. Pretty much every Idol will lose their popularity after 7 years! That's why agencies only give them a 7 year long contract.

That's really misleading in the chicken and the egg problem about popularity and longevity.

First of all, group contracts are only 7 years now due to laws to stop longer contracts thanks to the SM 10 year contracts (that EXO had for example). You can't use that as some sort of organic dovetail when it literally had to be legislated.

Secondly, full renewals are rare. Are most groups dropping off because they just naturally attenuate at 7 years, or because of contract renewal/disbandment rumours etc in the news, or just outright non reneweal leading to perceptions they're disbanded or in limbo, or moving to a smaller agency and can promote less?

Like BTS didn't stop their popularity after year 7, infact their biggest hits came in 2020-2021 when they were 7-8 years in - because they had a very clean proactive renewal in 2018(?) or so, which skipped all the end of contract drama/news articles that portend doom and gloom to a kpop group. Smart thinking.

Quote from Aeicy

eurovision is supposed to be about europe what the hell

What's that got to do with your comments?

You didn't mention anything about the arbitrary confines of Eurovision, you just basically came out with ethnostate thinking that someone who isn't born in a country can't represent that country.

Quote from doesitneedsaying

This has nothing to do with MAGA but, like i said, pov from homogeneous countries.

You can find countless of videos on YouTube people talking about, for example, being born in Japan, speaking fluently Japanese and/or being half Japanese and despite all that society doesn't consider them japanese. If you don't look like the rest of the population and share religion, society won't consider you as their own. For example, in my country minorities are white and have been living here for decades and decades and nobody considers them my nationality, both us nor them, that's a big no-no.

That's how it is in homogeneous societies.

I understand your point, but this person was talking about Australia. It would have taken 5 seconds to find out how Australia views those comments and the fact we've had someone with identical circumstances (literally) to Rose represent Australia at Eurovision.

Basically the Aeicy person was ignorant and spoke on a country they know nothing about. In my country, the language of how immigrants and people who have chosen our country for their life "aren't Australian" is language that is used by right-wing racists and xenophobes (hence the MAGA talking point comment).

It's despicable and quite frankly I find the culture of what you describe towards their minorities who live, work, pay taxes and contribute to society and country despicable too if they don't accept them as their nationality, but I guess that's not my country or culture and they can do as they wish.

Quote from Aeicy

wikipedia says she was raised in australia but that she is not Australian !

That's a really problematic statement.

Didn't expect people regurgitating MAGA talking points in this forum.

Here, in Australia, if you live here, are raised here, you are Australian. Apart from our indigenous population, everyone's ancestors had to immigrate here in modern times.

Also, FYI, our second ever Eurovision contestant was Dani IM, who was also Born in South Korea and raised in Australia.

Quote from patrik-k

Problem is that you don't accept people to have different view and if the views are not 100 % pro-NJ you start to attack people. Often directly attacking me and others, some times indirectly like you did in this post.

Quote from patrik-k

1. Yes, I don't like their music. But I have also said that can change if they change concepts.

2. Yes, I think their vocals and skills are pretty average

I've said before directly to the OP your exact first 2 points - that I don't think Newjeans are that good musically or talent wise, being quite average, and they just agreed to disagree and moved on. They could handle someone not agreeing with them.

They're not hounding every post I make and I don't usually jump into NewJeans posts. If you don't like the groups output (like myself) why are you commenting in everyone of their threads?

However, not sure I agree with the 3rd and 4th points. Regardless of how one feels about NewJeans, you can want them to thrive, get free of the environment they say is toxic to them, and continue on.

Sounds like you can't compartmentalize your views on Newjeans very well and apparently spend far too much time thinking about a group you say you don't enjoy. Plenty of groups all of us don't enjoy - so don't jump into their threads?

Quote from bbgc

Also, songs are say 3 minutes and say an average of 5 members in a group. Is maybe 30-40s of average singing time

If they aren't dancing, what's the point of having a group.

Dude what.

One of the most critically acclaimed country/western songs of all time was the HighwayMan by the Highwaymen, 4 absolute legends all singing on the same track. They didn't need to dance, and only got about 30 seconds of singing in the same song, and it's an incredible song.

The difference in vocal tones and timbre is what attracts people to the song. There are many vocal groups that do the same thing. All throughout musical history. Tenors and Altos and Bass would be the foundation of half of vocal groups (still are today, look at Forestella). Throw in rapping and you've got yourself 3-4 varied vocal tones and a rapper - that's a solid group with zero dancing.

Your guys brains are so kpop poisoned you can't escape this solipsistic prison you've built for yourself.

Quote from bbgc

Another evidence, GIDLE or others, their most successful songs are largely the ones with MVs with dancing, non MV b-sides chart nowhere near comparison, such would be exceptions.

Literally their most successful song this year was their song with no choreo.

It STILL has no choreo.

Quote from bbgc

You can tell me if you has survey statistics that gives data on how people became fans of any group. If not, then it is all anecdotal assertions either way..

I can empathize, I am not IU - hardly known for her dancing.

But I don't use myself as a benchmark for such things, but instead reasoning,

These are the components - Music, Vocal singing, lyrics, dance/performance aspect.

Of the 4, Lyrics are the most localized to culture & language, very difficult to cross borders.

Music and vocals are the most universal, you hardly need imports.

Dance-performance is where acts can differentiate themselves the most.

Ergo.

Of course it is a matter of extents.

And GIDLE is hardly BP/TWICE/BTS/SKZ when it comes to international/Western draw.

They are better than IU/AKMU/Day6 etc,. and that I still hold is due to the performative aspect.

Display More

No-one denies that Dancing is part of Kpop (just like rap is).

But the OP's subtext isn't just whether you consider dancing part of Kpop, it's about how Dancing is *so* important it can be the primary part of a kpop's aspect. Dancing is secondary. It helps, and they do it for reasons you touch on, but it's not the front and centre, which is the point trying to be pushed.

That's where I strong, strongly disagree. It's bordering on disingenuous the way this discussion has played out.

(Also Idle remain mega popular internationally (ie China, Russia), just not in the west. Far more popular in certain countries then SKZ, Twice for sure)

Quote from bbgc

Sure, but if they had not danced or done intense aerobics, they wouldn't have captured any decent market outside Korea.

I don't really know how to tell you almost no-one in Idle's fandom got into them because they danced.

Like that assertion is so wrong I don't even know WHERE to begin with. The other 4 groups I'm not sure (i doubt it) but for Idle i very much know - ain't no-one got into them due to dancing mate.

Dancing is just not important. They do it, but it's not a focus

Groups -

Bigbang

EXID

(G)I-DLE

Mamamoo

Brown Eyed Girls

BTS to a degree.

All those groups took the singing, the music and the concepts seriously first, and the dancing was designed to support the song and ideas, not the main focal point. That's what gets lost with the recent trends.

Do music, singing and stagecraft first. The dance then supports the ideas of the song and the vocals, not the current slop of intense aerobics on stage with little singing.

More importantly - all of the above groups could pull off an entire concert without having to dance at all, if necessary.

So they'll just do another album with a Soyeon Title Track?

Quote from Tru-Multistan

at what point did I ever even mention spotify in my OP or any of the replies except ones that mentioned it first? Oh shit, I didn't lmao.

Stop acting like you're smarter than everyone in every post you make because I'm sorry but you aren't.

Maybe class will teach you to understand I wasn't talking to you directly, just generally. If I wanted to speak to you directly, I would have quoted you. Like I'm doing now.

If your trying to act as smart as me you're not off to a good start.

This is the post that mentioned Spotify first.

Post

RE: BABYMONSTER are the indisputable leaders of the 5th gen

[…]

on melon but if we talk spotify.. oh well

sachhhhh

Dec 4th 2024

But others did too. So I made a general statement, not directed at you at all, but you somehow took this as mentioned for yourself.

Sounds like you are very insecure about this.

Using spotify metrics with how much it's paid for with spotify discovery and playlisting, in the year of our lord 2024.

Unserious people.

I don't know whether Babymonste are leaders or not, but using Spotify as your single source to prove anything means you've got no idea what you are talking about in the slightest.

Stop posting and pay attention in class.

I mean Lip Syncing on stage for 10 minutes then picking up Daesangs is..... a choice.

I still remember the very first actual live vocal performance of Black Mamba was.... on a survival show.

I do sometimes wonder if they really are the best vocalists of the era as so many claim them to be. I'd probably have to rank the Nmixx vocals above simply because they bring out the goods everytime on stage. To me that's part of singing.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

Me calling their comment "low down" means that their comment was uncalled for and not funny. Apologies if that was unclear.

Ahh sorry.

My mistake then too.

I lowkey think many people were crossing their fingers that Idle would disband.

That''s the only thing that explains the absolute mania them renewing has caused amongst non-fans.