Do you consider any group that lacks strong digitals to be truly successful?

IDK, I think kpop fans get caught up a lot on a group's impact when that can only be accurately assessed with time.

I'm not sure.

Brave girls having impressive digitals, some of the biggest gg records and a legacy like you say.

I mean. Now when people wish an Underrated group the success they deserve. They start wishing them an brave girls moment.

But I'm not sure how respected they are. Like maybe there is a resentment because some people may think they don't deserve to be named amongst the greatest.

On the other side. Of course I don't now how other fans that see. But for me. I highly respect other groups who may not have super big hits but are able to gain many fans who like them. For example because of queendom I learned about loona or wjsn who I deeply respect now and hope they will also gain a big domestic hit.

Yes, in the 2nd/early 3rd gen no becuase groups could not make enough money outside korea/asia but things are different now. So while Seventeen, Nct 127, Nct Dream, Astro, Stray Kids etc will probably never have a hit song they can still be succesfull without it if their sales/touring is big enough.

However they wont have a legacy...all those older bgs going back on shows for reunion comebacks? Sg Wannabe, shinee, highlight, 2pm, etc they only got to do so becuase they had korean digitals

If they make a lot of money and many people know them yes

Successful as in making money, yes. Legacy as in being remembered years or even decades from now other than by the die hard fans, no

Not really as imo it shouldn't always be about sales and I feel there's too much emphasis on that.

As Taemin said, if you are happy with your career you are successful

The only definition of success Ill take

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SM groups however, only TVQX are generally respected among non-fans

also not true at all

If their groups were not respected among Koreans, they wouldnt have the longest careers in kpop

Delusional thread in every conceivable way

Quote from pamyu-pon

I meant SM boy groups, my mistake

And I'm not talking about Koreans. Im talking about kpop fans

majority of kpop fans are Korean

even if you talk about the bgs, suju is literally on every single channel every day lol

I mean even though lacks digitals if u have big sold out tours isn't that successful?

yes

see izone

So by this logic Momoland is more successful than Seventeen? Wut?

If your song enters the pop culture landscape that people constantly reference it of all ages and groups, if you can sell out arenas, if you’re trending globally because you changed your hair color or released a song, you are popular.

The idea that digital charting is the only metric or legacy doesn’t seem to understand how quickly Kpop changes. While I would argue that SM has some impressive longevity with its bgs, I also think you’re overestimating the memory of people.

We can see now here on AKP people coming and not having any idea about who people like Sistar are but knowing people from SuJu or Shinee. They don’t know a 2NE1 song but they know a Baekhyun song. In another five years, they may not know any of these and think of TXT as a group for old people and be into the next thing.

(And tbf, both Taemin and Baekhyun are respected despite not having strong digitals so again, there’s more happening here.)

Taemin doesn’t have a hit but he is well known inside and outside Kpop in Korea and other countries for his dynamic performance.

Also, it’s kinda ruining your point that only TVXQ is well respected among Kpop fans when you can’t even get the name of the group right. This goes to my point about people not knowing or caring about K-pop’s past groups in general because they’re on to the next thing.

Most only know Mirotic from covers, just as someday they’ll only know Growl from covers or Boss from covers.

each person's definition of success varies

the issue isn't so much what groups are successful but each of our different metrics on success

a GG that charts well (say top 10 all charts) but fails to hit let's say 20K albums - is that successful?

a BG that fails to chart top1000 but sells 1m albums - is that successful

the real debate isn't which of them are successful or not but that the criteria that each of us use to determine whether or not a group is successful

Quote from pamyu-pon

Brave girls will always be remembered for the amazing fairytale story. A true motivation for all the nugus to never give up. They should be respected for reminding everyone that its not always about talent, but also huge amount of luck

I think so too. If your faves have as much talent as bg and also work as hard as them. they will surely be rewarded.

Fortune favors the brave.