Snsd has the best selling album of the year when they released The Boys. Kara and Snsd sell better in Japan than most boy groups. However, now top boy groups sell more than 2 million copies per album and many more easily pull more than a million/album even without hit songs like girl groups, but only a few girl groups can sell more than 500k/album. Bulk buying also exists back then, so how could girl groups compete with boy groups in physicals back then but not now? How can they catch up with boy groups in physicals?
How were girl groups able to compete with boy groups’ physicals in 2nd gen but not now?
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Ggs did not compete with bgs in 2g at all. Not even close. If anything they got slaughtered harder than nowadays. 99% of ggs could count themselves very successful if they got 50k and only a handful ever got 100k at their absolute best once or twice if they lucky in their whole career. Meanwhile most bgs regularly got 100k as their floor and the ceiling was much higher, bigger ones could get 200k+ while biggest could get 300k and up. SNSD being the outright best seller was a huge anomaly and a freak of nature so you can't say just because they did great all ggs did great. Take them out of the equation and it's very apparent bgs utterly trashed ggs in sales.
It's like saying just because BP passed a million it means all ggs these days are competitive with the biggest hitting bgs. That's obviously not the case at all as no other 3g gg onward has touched 1m whereas a bunch of bgs take 1m as standard and a few can go for 2m+.
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While BP are doing great, no doubt about it, I don't think they are in SNSD's place now: not only didn't BP surpass BTS' sales, they only equaled the other top bg group sales like Seventeen and NCT, where as SNSD far surpassed the boy groups at their peak.
SNSD and KARA both were also having insane sales in Japan around that time, SNSD were even having a 1 million selling Japanese album, which was completely unheard of for K-pop groups at that time.
But among the girl groups right now, there's no doubt that Blackpink are doing best by far.
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While BP are doing great, no doubt about it, I don't think they are in SNSD's place now: not only didn't BP surpass BTS' sales, they only equaled the other top bg group sales like Seventeen and NCT, where as SNSD far surpassed the boy groups at their peak.
SNSD and KARA both were also having insane sales in Japan around that time, SNSD were even having a 1 million selling Japanese album, which was completely unheard of for K-pop groups at that time.
But among the girl groups right now, there's no doubt that Blackpink are doing best by far.
For BP we don't know whether they are at their peak or not so their next CB will tell... BTS is at the level of taylor swift or maybe even above when it comes to sales.
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While BP are doing great, no doubt about it, I don't think they are in SNSD's place now: not only didn't BP surpass BTS' sales, they only equaled the other top bg group sales like Seventeen and NCT, where as SNSD far surpassed the boy groups at their peak.
SNSD and KARA both were also having insane sales in Japan around that time, SNSD were even having a 1 million selling Japanese album, which was completely unheard of for K-pop groups at that time.
But among the girl groups right now, there's no doubt that Blackpink are doing best by far.
i don't think anyone can beat bts not even peak snsd or bigbang. bts beating top global artists like taylor swift and adele even though we may think bp have 2nd biggest fandom among kpop groups it's still inconsiderable to bts fandom
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Tbh, I don't think BP are at their peak: K-pop globally is still growing and BP will profit most from it as they are the prime figurehead for K-pop when it comes to girl groups.
The current situation just shows how different it is compared with the situation back then: BTS are at such a height, no girl group nor boy group can come close. Back then, Big Bang were the biggest boy group but even at their top they were never the best album seller, multiple other boy groups were and even SNSD had consistently better album sales than Big Bang for many years. While at those same times no other girl groups came even close to SNSD's album sales and at SNSD's top they surpassed even all boy groups' album sales.
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Twice sold more than every bg other than BTS in Japan for a while.
In 2017 Twice had the 3rd best selling Japanese single, after two BTS ones (so outsold the rest). They had the 2nd best seller in 2018 after BTS. In 2019 they also had the 2nd best seller after BTS.
In 2016 they had the 5th best selling album of the year on Gaon, only behind two BTS and EXO releases.
The 2nd gen results is not a comparative because they really only had one anomalous big album seller for BG's and that was TVXQ, whilst the 3rd gen had EXO and BTS (different story nowadays). If they don't have their split no-one is selling more than them until EXO come through. Their last release was Mirotic which was the first Korean album to sell 500k+ in 4 years.
The 2nd gen through circumstances lost their biggest album seller, leaving that title open to others. Whilst their biggest digital act in Big Bang never released or promoted like a normal boy group. In the 3rd gen you basically had EXO as TVXQ and BTS as Big Bang but actually promoting like a kpop group to amass the type of fanbase to sell albums.
I've seen people constantly make this comparison whilst ignoring how different the context is.
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The 2nd gen results is not a comparative because they really only had one anomalous big album seller for BG's and that was TVXQ, whilst the 3rd gen had EXO and BTS (different story nowadays). If they don't have their split no-one is selling more than them until EXO come through. Their last release was Mirotic which was the first Korean album to sell 500k+ in 4 years.
The 2nd gen through circumstances lost their biggest album seller, leaving that title open to others. Whilst their biggest digital act in Big Bang never released or promoted like a normal boy group. In the 3rd gen you basically had EXO as TVXQ and BTS as Big Bang but actually promoting like a kpop group to amass the type of fanbase to sell albums.
I've seen people constantly make this comparison whilst ignoring how different the context is.
I agree that situations are different from generation to generation.
Seeing how even midtier girl groups and even new female solo artists can get 100k album sales nowadays, something that was a hard ceiling for most female K-pop artists and groups only a couple of years ago, is already telling.
TVXQ weren't the only 2nd gen big album seller though. Super Junior were too, they won several album daesangs and had their own 500k+ sales per album. Even SHINee as a sub-top group had the same sales per album as Big Bang.
And while TVXQ had great album sales in Japan, I don't think they had better sales per album than SNSD and KARA at their peak. If I'm not wrong, SNSD and KARA surpassed all other K-pop groups in Japanese sales per album when they were at their peak, incl TVXQ.
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I agree that situations are different from generation to generation.
Seeing how even midtier girl groups and even new female solo artists can get 100k album sales nowadays, something that was a hard ceiling for most female K-pop artists and groups only a couple of years ago, is already telling.
TVXQ weren't the only 2nd gen big album seller though. Super Junior were too, they won several album daesangs and had their own 500k+ sales per album. Even SHINee as a sub-top group had the same sales per album as Big Bang.
And while TVXQ had great album sales in Japan, I don't think they had better sales per album than SNSD and KARA at their peak. If I'm not wrong, SNSD and KARA surpassed all other K-pop groups in Japanese sales per album when they were at their peak, incl TVXQ.
Well yeah, someone needs to win the album dasesang, that in itself is not an anomalous achievement. They hit 500k+ 3 years after TVXQ did it in an era more favourable to sales compared to 2008, hence why they were the first to beat 500k+ in so long. Shinee were your archetypal boy group. Them selling more than Big Bang who were the biggest domestic digital act and worldwide kpop act of the 2nd gen is more indicative of how Big Bang worked and promoted - not releasing in some years, concentrating on solos/subs very early on, not having the flower boy visuals that attracts album buying fans etc. The first time a Shinee release sold 200k was was with Sherlock released in 2012, which by the end of 2013 had sold 196k. EXO made their debut in 2012 and by the end of 2013 Mama their debut release for 2012 also had already sold 218k (this is ignoring the Chinese version which sold another 140k in that period). There are levels to how groups are promoted/built and therefore the fandom and sales they attract. If Shinee are a anomalous/impressive group for the 2nd gen sales wise what does that make EXO to the 3rd gen from debut?
The only reason SNSD might have an "average at their peaks" in their favour is because they have one huge outlier aided by a special edition release and TVXQ have a lot of albums. I don't know what years you'd want to include in such a calculation but SNSD didn't consistently outsell TVXQ in Japan, it was basically only one release in that period. Kara's Super Girl is another full album that had a special release months after the original though they did have more than one big seller.
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Well yeah, someone needs to win the album dasesang, that in itself is not an anomalous achievement. They hit 500k+ 3 years after TVXQ did it in an era more favourable to sales compared to 2008, hence why they were the first to beat 500k+ in so long. Shinee were your archetypal boy group. Them selling more than Big Bang who were the biggest domestic digital act and worldwide kpop act of the 2nd gen is more indicative of how Big Bang worked and promoted - not releasing in some years, concentrating on solos/subs very early on, not having the flower boy visuals that attracts album buying fans etc. The first time a Shinee release sold 200k was was with Sherlock released in 2012, which by the end of 2013 had sold 196k. EXO made their debut in 2012 and by the end of 2013 Mama their debut release for 2012 also had already sold 218k (this is ignoring the Chinese version which sold another 140k in that period). There are levels to how groups are promoted/built and therefore the fandom and sales they attract. If Shinee are a anomalous/impressive group for the 2nd gen sales wise what does that make EXO to the 3rd gen from debut?
The only reason SNSD might have an "average at their peaks" in their favour is because they have one huge outlier aided by a special edition release and TVXQ have a lot of albums. I don't know what years you'd want to include in such a calculation but SNSD didn't consistently outsell TVXQ in Japan, it was basically only one release in that period. Kara's Super Girl is another full album that had a special release months after the original though they did have more than one big seller.
Yes, I agree, that's what I was saying. at their peak SNSD and KARA outperformed TVXQ in sales per album in Japan, and SNSD outsold the other boy groups in sales per album in South Korea. Not across their entire career, but in the year(s) that they peaked in album sales.
It wasn't TVXQ but Big Bang that SNSD consistently outsold over many years in sales per album.
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Yes, I agree, that's what I was saying. at their peak SNSD and KARA outperformed TVXQ in sales per album in Japan, and SNSD outsold the other boy groups in sales per album in South Korea. Not across their entire career, but in the year(s) that they peaked in album sales.
It wasn't TVXQ but Big Bang that SNSD consistently outsold over many years in sales per album.
The point I was making is this point is disingenuous as a mean average is distorted by smaller volume and outliers (all which work in SNSD's favour). In SNSD's case when only one of their album outperformed TVXQ at their "peak", I don't think anyone can impartially look at that and conclude SNSD were better sellers than TVXQ in Japan at their peak. SNSD's 2nd best seller in Japan has 206k sales, that doesn't make TVXQ's top 10 in Japan.
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The point I was making is this point is disingenuous as a mean average is distorted by smaller volume and outliers (all which work in SNSD's favour). In SNSD's case when only one of their album outperformed TVXQ at their "peak", I don't think anyone can impartially look at that and conclude SNSD were better sellers than TVXQ in Japan at their peak. SNSD's 2nd best seller in Japan has 206k sales, that doesn't make TVXQ's top 10 in Japan.
Interesting. Thanks for the information. Do you know what’s the reason TVXQ sells so well both in Korea and Japan? Seems like a lot of groups have hits in 2nd gen but not many are good album sellers.
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The point I was making is this point is disingenuous as a mean average is distorted by smaller volume and outliers (all which work in SNSD's favour). In SNSD's case when only one of their album outperformed TVXQ at their "peak", I don't think anyone can impartially look at that and conclude SNSD were better sellers than TVXQ in Japan at their peak. SNSD's 2nd best seller in Japan has 206k sales, that doesn't make TVXQ's top 10 in Japan.
I guess we have to agree to disagree then, we look at it differently.
SNSD's popularity peak in Japan was short but the highest, which is why they had the highest sales per album with a million selling album (according to RIAJ). KARA's popularity peak was longer which is why they had two massive selling Japanese albums, but both still not as high as SNSD's.
I don't dismiss SNSD's 1 and KARA's 2 top selling albums, they were a perfect example and representation of the duration and the heights of their popularity peaks in Japan.
Same for SNSD's sales per album in South Korea.
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Because they put a lot of emphasis on Japan, like you see Hybe do with their groups in the current era hence why they're becoming very dominant there. The issues they had in SK forced their hand on this as well.
I guess we have to agree to disagree then, we look at it differently.
SNSD's popularity peak in Japan was short but the highest, which is why they had the highest sales per album with a million selling album (according to RIAJ). KARA's popularity peak was longer which is why they had two massive selling Japanese albums, but both still not as high as SNSD's.
I don't dismiss SNSD's 1 and KARA's 2 top selling albums, they were a perfect example and representation of the duration and the heights of their popularity peaks in Japan.
Same for SNSD's sales per album in South Korea.
We can agree to disagree but I don't think logically what you're saying holds much weight, especially when you consider both SNSD's and Kara's best sellers had special editions released months after the original skewing the numbers even more in their favour.
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