The BTS HYYH era would get cancel if it was release now

Don't know much about the notes in HYYH era, but people already do what you're saying with their Ly era. And they say vile shit about the members talking about their mental health too.

Kpop stans alr claimed that about BTS in the past only difference now is that some armys would also join the bandwagon to cancel it as they will claim that BTS names being used in the books and BU is damaging their image.

Quote from dopiee

Don't know much about the notes in HYYH era, but people already do what you're saying with their Ly era. And they say vile shit about the members talking about their mental health too.

They very vile towards their mama speech too. It was gross if I think about it again now

Quote from dopiee

Don't know much about the notes in HYYH era, but people already do what you're saying with their Ly era. And they say vile shit about the members talking about their mental health too.

Anytime they do 'darker' concepts they are criticised for 'selling depression' or 'trauma porn'

Quote from aitaitae

Anytime they do 'darker' concepts they are criticised for 'selling depression' or 'trauma porn'

Funniest thing is talking about such topics is what dark music encompasses of, but people think dancing in harness outfits and heavy makeup is doing dark concept.

I find HYYH and BU fascinating and it's important to talk about mental health... not talking about it can make as much harm as talking in an inappropriate way, I think. Anyway, those topics need to be discussed at least for better awareness and HYYH and BU books did it quite well. I've found an interesting website with articles and resources about BU, I can recommend: https://www.thebtseffect.com/bangtan-universe

Quote from aitaitae

Anytime they do 'darker' concepts they are criticised for 'selling depression' or 'trauma porn'

This.

Like this is the reason why I think some kpop stans may partially be responsible for their faves not delving much into these kind of issues. Everything is just a concept to them and they think dark concept means having dark themes, wearing dark clothes and having dark aesthetics when that is so far from the truth.

I still remember how they tried to cancel gomd by juice wrld just for being real in his lyrics on an album titled “Fighting Demons”

I don’t agree. I think landscape of kpop has changed considerably since LY criticism. And personally i think there’s a difference between selling self-love/empowerment to a primarily (some would argue young) female base versus talking about mental health/addiction. The former being a softball for criticism, while the latter is usually respected as sincere. Also i’m not agreeing with the LY criticism, just explaining it.

Tons of western artist talk about mental health or addiction, so i’d argue BTS talking about it more would be more in line.

One of my biggest critiques of BTS in the west, is they seemed to have dropped any deeper meaning to their music, and just released pop music that they (either BTS or HYBE) thought would be palatable to the GP (Dynamite, Butter, PTD)

I wish BTS showed America their deeper side, instead of just coming off as a dance pop group in their english songs.

Quote from Kouss

I don’t agree. I think landscape of kpop has changed considerably since LY criticism. And personally i think there’s a difference between selling self-love/empowerment to a primarily (some would argue young) female base versus talking about mental health/addiction. The former being a softball for criticism, while the latter is usually respected as sincere. Also i’m not agreeing with the LY criticism, just explaining it.

Tons of western artist talk about mental health or addiction, so i’d argue BTS talking about it more would be more in line.

One of my biggest critiques of BTS in the west, is they seemed to have dropped any deeper meaning to their music, and just released pop music that they (either BTS or HYBE) thought would be palatable to the GP (Dynamite, Butter, PTD)

I wish BTS showed America their deeper side, instead of just coming off as a dance pop group in their english songs.

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BE was released in november of 2020 and mots7 in feb of 2020, they didnt release and album in 2021 so you can fuck right off with that whole narrative that they lost their identity or whatever

Quote from aitaitae

BE was released in november of 2020 and mots7 in feb of 2020, they didnt release and album in 2021 so you can fuck right off with that whole narrative that they lost their identity or whatever

i would work on your reading comprehension.

Songs from BE or mots7, aren’t the ones being played on commercials in America or at amusement parks, or on the radio for that matter. It was their english songs, which is why i specially talked about their english songs.

A lot of the GP, found BTS more palatable because of their english songs and that’s what they listened too. We all know the narrative of Americans just putting on the radio, so most aren’t checking out those albums.

It’s not a narrative of BTS losing their artistry, it’s a narrative that they made a choice to lose it, to appeal to the masses (atleast for their english songs).

Quote from Kouss

i would work on your reading comprehension.

Songs from BE or mots7, aren’t the ones being played on commercials in America or at amusement parks, or on the radio for that matter. It was their english songs, which is why i specially talked about their english songs.

A lot of the GP, found BTS more palatable because of their english songs and that’s what they listened too. We all know the narrative of Americans just putting on the radio, so most aren’t checking out those albums.

It’s not a narrative of BTS losing their artistry, it’s a narrative that they made a choice to lose it, to appeal to the masses (atleast for their english songs).

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you do realize that radio does not play their korean songs. many stations cut out korean part from my universe too

Quote from Kouss

Songs from BE or mots7, aren’t the ones being played on commercials in America or at amusement parks, or on the radio for that matter. It was their english songs, which is why i specially talked about their english songs.

Their korean songs dont get played bc surprise surprise, it's in korean. Even with bwl the reason why it got decent radio was bc of halsey.

Quote from Kouss

It’s not a narrative of BTS losing their artistry, it’s a narrative that they made a choice to lose it, to

So they lost their artistry bc of three songs out of ~200? What an idiotic take

Your arguments are dumb and I'll informed bc basically you're saying they lost their artistry bc their english songs are successful

Quote from Kouss

i would work on your reading comprehension.

Songs from BE or mots7, aren’t the ones being played on commercials in America or at amusement parks, or on the radio for that matter. It was their english songs, which is why i specially talked about their english songs.

A lot of the GP, found BTS more palatable because of their english songs and that’s what they listened too. We all know the narrative of Americans just putting on the radio, so most aren’t checking out those albums.

It’s not a narrative of BTS losing their artistry, it’s a narrative that they made a choice to lose it, to appeal to the masses (atleast for their english songs).

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blame american market for it if only english songs are being the one played everywhere not BTS. they promoted the shit out of MOTS-7 but what was the result? and results are important for every artist

Quote from aitaitae

Their korean songs dont get played bc surprise surprise, it's in korean. Even with bwl the reason why it got decent radio was bc of halsey.

So they lost their artistry bc of three songs out of ~200? What an idiotic take

Your arguments are dumb and I'll informed bc basically you're saying they lost their artistry bc their english songs are successful

Bro, how many times am i gonna say work on your reading comprehension instead of putting words in my mouth.

ARTISTRY IN THEIR ENGLISH RELEASES.

Say it with me pls.

BTS literally were known and blew up in kpop because they didn’t do the superficial pop, and actually released music as artist instead of idols.

THEN when they get to the West, THEY KNEW english was the only way to get the GP to pay attention. You guys admitting that clearly (by examples of korean parts being edited out or radios not playing korean songs). SO everyone knows english is the only thing GP will listen to. So all they have to judges BTS from is Dynamite, Butter, and PTD. All there korean release aren’t being seen by the GP.

My argument is, WE all know BTS for having deep lyrics and challenging topics, BUT the US GP hasn’t got to see that because EITHER BTS OR HYBE made a deliberate choice, to make their english release dance pop songs with hardly any meaning.

I don’t think that’s a controversial opinion…..

Quote from Kouss

Bro, how many times am i gonna say work on your reading comprehension instead of putting words in my mouth.

ARTISTRY IN THEIR ENGLISH RELEASES.

Say it with me pls.

BTS literally were known and blew up in kpop because they didn’t do the superficial pop, and actually released music as artist instead of idols.

THEN when they get to the West, THEY KNEW english was the only way to get the GP to pay attention. You guys admitting that clearly (by examples of korean parts being edited out or radios not playing korean songs). SO everyone knows english is the only thing GP will listen to. So all they have to judges BTS from is Dynamite, Butter, and PTD. All there korean release aren’t being seen by the GP.

My argument is, WE all know BTS for having deep lyrics and challenging topics, BUT the US GP hasn’t got to see that because EITHER BTS OR HYBE made a deliberate choice, to make their english release dance pop songs with hardly any meaning.

I don’t think that’s a controversial opinion…..

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NO! let's not backtrack! In your first post you made it seem like they were losing their artistry overall bc of their english releases!

Quote from aitaitae

NO! let's not backtrack! In your first post you made it seem like they were losing their artistry overall bc of their english releases!

Bro, THIS IS THE LAST TIME IM GONNA TELL YOU BECAUSE YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL.

WORK. ON. YOUR. READING. COMPREHENSION

Quote from Kouss

One of my biggest critiques of BTS in the west

^^^^^^

Quote from Kouss

I wish BTS showed America their deeper side, instead of just coming off as a dance pop group in their english songs.

I even only listened their english releases and y talked about them for a reason. You decided to put words in my mouth and widen the scope of my criticism to all their work, when i specified i was talking about their music in the west.

some kpop fans already accused them of using depression as a concept and blah blah blah when they released i need u.

Quote from leavessick

It is not a controversial opinion, they dropped those 3 songs with an obvious purpose to expand their global dominance. Once people get to know them because of those songs they should listen to their other music before talking about their whole discography.

3 songs don’t represent their music and that applies for every artist....

It does if that’s all ppl see. I agree, some new fans will explore BTS disco, but most in the GP (those only listening to Top 40 radio) won’t and their opinions won’t develop any farther than those 3 english songs. Which sadly, Butter, Dynamite etc fall into the kpop stereotype that’s the exact opposite of BTS’ appeal (not to mention lack of rap, but that’s a discussion for another day)

I think that’s a big misstep on HYBE/BTS part. Does it realistically matter? no both songs were hits, but in terms of objective legacy, would have preferred of BTS showed their deeper side/rap skills to the west.

Go away Kouss.

Quote from Kouss

I don’t agree. I think landscape of kpop has changed considerably since LY criticism. And personally i think there’s a difference between selling self-love/empowerment to a primarily (some would argue young) female base versus talking about mental health/addiction. The former being a softball for criticism, while the latter is usually respected as sincere. Also i’m not agreeing with the LY criticism, just explaining it.

Tons of western artist talk about mental health or addiction, so i’d argue BTS talking about it more would be more in line.

One of my biggest critiques of BTS in the west, is they seemed to have dropped any deeper meaning to their music, and just released pop music that they (either BTS or HYBE) thought would be palatable to the GP (Dynamite, Butter, PTD)

I wish BTS showed America their deeper side, instead of just coming off as a dance pop group in their english songs.

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I see this criticism a lot and I always thought it's a weird take.

First, BTS still release "deep" song between those 3 English songs, aka BE album, so to say they "dropped" it is incorrect.

Second, BTS often release love song for their title songs in Korean, and the "deeper" songs are their album tracks. It's the norms: I need U, Blood Sweat and Tears, DNA, Boys with Love. Their title tracks that are promoted are always more palatable lyrics create to target the GP. There is no such criticism when the title tracks are in Korean, only when it's English that people cry it should have "deep" lyrics. Such weird take, and erasure of reality.

Third, people forget that BTS isn't fluent in English. So how authentic is it for them to have people write "deep" lyrics for them to sing in English? How does that speak to their artistry? Nothing because it make no sense. You can argue Namjoon can write the lyrics, but how authentic is it for BTS to go around singing deep English lyrics that they don't even understand? I can already imagine people criticizing BTS for being inauthetic the day they sing deep English lyrics for the same reason. This is such a damn if you do, damn if you don't criticism.

It's also a weird take for you to only consider the English songs as BTS proper attempts toward the Western market. Frankly they did so much more promotion for songs like Blackswan and ON. But only the English songs with easy lyrics are given chances. It's more accurate to say Western market only care for simple lyrics than to say BTS attempt Western ONLY with simple lyrics.

BTS exploring of topics you describe is through an album, and the whole promotion of it. It was not through just the title tracks. BTS has not release an English album so it's immature (meaning early, not saying you are immature) to already judge them when an album in English has not been realized. It's more apt to make such judgement after they release an English album.

I dont think mental health issues is what would get BTS cancelled nowadays.

I think if they ever came out with lyrics supporting conservative values, or came out with a song like War of Hormones, that's what would get them cancelled by their own fanbase. K Armys probably wouldnt care but I Armys would be pissed off.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

I dont think mental health issues is what would get BTS cancelled nowadays.

I think if they ever came out with lyrics supporting conservative values, or came out with a song like War of Hormones, that's what would get them cancelled by their own fanbase. K Armys probably wouldnt care but I Armys would be pissed off.

i highly doubt they would release a song supporting conservative values in 2022, they are even buddies with the left wing current South Korean president and never showed support to the conservative party.

Quote from nochutae

some kpop fans already accused them of using depression as a concept and blah blah blah when they released i need u.

I remember that and it was so fucked up, BTS are constantly expressing their inner self struggles and I saw some kpop fans have the audacity to say that BTS never explictly talked about their own issues and that was why songs from other kpop artists (which I won't mention here because it doesn't matter) are more authentic than their "fake use of mental illness". They really just cherry pick whatever fits their narrative

that's their only era that felt meaningful to me

hyyh is THE reason they got so popular in teh first place

no cancel culture bs would stop that

Hm.

Well, frankly speaking, they kinda talked about something like this in Dis-ease and nobody called them names for this song, but that song also wasn't promoted so that's not really a good example too.

I kinda think that coming up with thing like HYYH will depend on marketing. I think if they won't say some bs like 'we released this song cause we know that our precious fans can struggle and bla bla bla' but instead will sincerely (as much as it's possible, of course) share about their own situations and how they wanted to talk about it then it should be fine. I think the topic of mental health and struggles is very well accepted and welcomed nowadays actually.

I do agree with other poster that due to their most pushed, promoted and known (by casual listeners especially) songs in latest years being some light poppish ones with no storytelling or deep meaning the image of their artisty went to shjthole in comparison to how they were perceived prior HYYH release, so indeed there might be a problem with people calling them out for it to be just a trendy concept for a group (cause no, ppl who know BTS only by their simple poppish songs, even maybe like them, are not obliged to know about their deep songs). But that's where we are going back to marketing thing, like I said, if it'll be smth more personal, like some sort of opening up, they'll be fine imo.

Also there still will be haters saying whatever they feel bad to say regardless.

Quote from aitaitae

Their korean songs dont get played bc surprise surprise, it's in korean. Even with bwl the reason why it got decent radio was bc of halsey.

So they lost their artistry bc of three songs out of ~200? What an idiotic take

Your arguments are dumb and I'll informed bc basically you're saying they lost their artistry bc their english songs are successful

they're a troll. i blocked them a long time ago. don't bother with their wack ass.

Quote from MIRACOLE

Go away Kouss.

literally the fucking worst iswis

Your title scared me a bit. I was ready to disagree, but I got the point of the OP.

Quote from fortuna

Uhm guys y'all can discuss without being rude to each other

No need to tell others to ,"fuck off" or "go away"

A simple "I don't agree" is good enough

With that said, I don't agree with the opinion either

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to be fair that user is known for entering rando BTS threads and shitting on them.

honestly though. it shows how stupid cancel culture is.

Quote from Kouss

THEN when they get to the West, THEY KNEW english was the only way to get the GP to pay attention. You guys admitting that clearly (by examples of korean parts being edited out or radios not playing korean songs). SO everyone knows english is the only thing GP will listen to. So all they have to judges BTS from is Dynamite, Butter, and PTD. All there korean release aren’t being seen by the GP.

My argument is, WE all know BTS for having deep lyrics and challenging topics, BUT the US GP hasn’t got to see that because EITHER BTS OR HYBE made a deliberate choice, to make their english release dance pop songs with hardly any meaning.

I don’t think that’s a controversial opinion…..

Timing had a lot to do with it, IMO. It's harder to make a deep, happy song and they wanted to make happy songs because of the pandemic. That they also happen to get more attention dovetails nicely with the desire for a Grammy and just wanting to get their music out there to more people somehow. Perhaps with this new chapter, we'll see something different, especially since Joon participates much more in English lyric writing now. I felt similar frustration with older US interviews when the group would pass on the opportunity to answer a question in a meaningful way and instead would give a shallow canned answer. That I think had to do with not always having a translator and not feeling comfortable enough with English to answer in depth. It didn't help the image problem though.

Quote from FeLiNa

they're a troll. i blocked them a long time ago. don't bother with their wack ass.

I wouldn't normally engage with them but I refuse to let people spread this false narrative about bts and their artistry

Quote from aitaitae

I wouldn't normally engage with them but I refuse to let people spread this false narrative about bts and their artistry

bro you got clocked for being unable to read and forcing me to explain the same concept to you 3 times.

The only one who pushed that narrative was YOU, literally. We all basically agreed in this thread their artistry isn’t in their english releases. So MY narrative was correct (the one you failed to understand even tho it was written plainly).

Quote from zuzuhhaa

they even shit on nct ffs

haechan is not proud

i’m not brainless like the rest of you. No person or group is immune to criticism or jokes about them, whether i like their music/personality or not.

just straight opinions here.