LSFM vs IVE, Korean performance or global performance, which matters more?

LSF is more impressive. Ive is doing nothing special in Korea. In fact, their digitals are worse with each year. Out of the three songs they released this year only Rebel Heart can qualify as a hit.

HOT, otoh, is actually the best performing 4th gen song this year on Spotify and Crazy also had a resurgence so yeah its LSF imo.

Global performance will always matter more because that means your music is reaching vast audiences.

And imo, there's no better demonstration of true popularity than that.

Quote from applepie343434

Ngl, this kinda brings back memories from years ago with Twice and BP since I saw almost the same arguments on twitter from both sides mostly on twitter haha.

Quote from applepie343434

This raises a real question in me, which is more important? Domestic dominance or global reach? Between Lsfm and Ive, which would you rank higher as both excel in different areas?

Twice while dominating South Korea were also the most popular GG in Japan(2nd biggest music market in the world) so it made complete sense to put them ahead of BP who only had their first hit in the US with D4. 2025 Ive isn't comparable to 2018 Twice AT ALL. So yeah in this case, you can def rank LSF ahead of Ive.

Global. But As I said on the other thread, LE SSERAFIM isn't doing anything more impressive than IVE's career globally for me to put them ahead, imo.

I think "global" is too broad a brush, unless we're talking about general popularity.

Being popular in Japan, or in China, or in the US, relate to different material outcomes. IE, being popular in the US is not going to help you with album sales all that much (which affects profitability), while being popular in China can be borderline invisible due to the dominance of domestic platforms. Some audiences tend to be more fickle than others - staying successful in Japan seems easier than it does in other markets.

But honestly I think Korea as a market is borderline irrelevant. Many k-pop acts have monthly listener counts on Spotify that massively eclipse the total userbase of Melon. According to Wiseapp via Statista, Melon has an active userbase of 6 million people as of April 2025. More people than that listened to Ive on Spotify in the last month alone, and Ive is one of the weaker "big" groups on the platform. Some groups double, triple or even quadruple this.

I understand that this is an extremely imperfect comparison for various reasons. But the point remains that the audience for k-pop has a wide geographic distribution that isn't particularly concentrated in South Korea. And if you want to make money touring, well, that's definitely not the best country to be targeting, right?

On the other hand, "success" for a k-pop artist in the United States is on the margins of US charts, often outside the mainstream. This might bring in more money (in terms of streaming and touring revenue) than big success in Korea. BUT that success is unlikely to be as long-term, because you haven't penetrated outside of a small niche usually. People are not going to remember you. Whereas if you dominate South Korea... Koreans will remember. And up until recently, it is Koreans that have been writing the history of k-pop, which is why over time SNSD's legacy grew over their competitors who arguably achieved greater success in other markets.

BUT! What was true then isn't true now, so if I'm getting off the pot: Global performance matters more. If Le Sserafim was out-touring Ive (which apparently they're not) as well as out-streaming them, I would happily call them the "bigger" group than Ive, despite the latter's domestic chart performance. But I'm not going to make that call on streaming numbers alone.

Why do we need a separate thread for this again?

Because the answer is obvious

Which is that Day6 is the biggest GG of 4th gen so it doesn't matter what IVE or LSFM does

if you are really THAT girl group, just do both....

just like what blackpink did.

Quote from applepie343434

After all, only 4th-gen girl groups, Bp and Twice can keep this site alive.

you forget biggest 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gen GG Day6

they ended all those flops

This is a silly conversation. IVE is clearly the bigger girl group.

LSF haven't had a true major hit song since Perfect Night. They're only just starting to recover from the disaster that was 2024. It's premature to pit them against IVE, especially considering peak IVE is in a class of their own, behind only peak NJ, who were also in a class of their own.

Hell, if we're going peak for peak, LSF would actually rank behind Idle by a very wide margin.

In totality, and currently, IVE are still a top 3 girl group. LSF would need to be doing KATSEYE numbers in Billboard to make up for the gap everywhere else.

Quote from applepie343434

Wow, tbh, I’m noticing a shift in how people are responding. Im curious so I was checking old discussion on similar topics, and people voted for domestic success more. I wonder what flipped the narrative these past few years.

I'm just not as narrow-minded as certain people.

I always try to find a balance between the two but for me, performing decently in a pool that is wider and has more variety will always >>>>>>>> being at the top 1 in just one.

Not saying IVE is only relevant in SK but thats just generally.

That being said, LE SSERAFIM truly hasn't had the best chart performance recently but imo, IVE simply having consistent success with their comebacks since debut should place them well above a few groups on that list, including LE SSERAFIM.

Global but like I said outside of Spotify LSRF isn’t doing better than IVE IVE has sold more albums and tickets and LSRF’s biggest market is Japan but again IVE sold our tokyo dome too.

Quote from superyeah

That moment when you see a thread talking about performance, but it ends up being about charts performance… Disappointment.

What about STAGE performance?

Why don’t you make your own thread then I’m confused you always complain about it but then interact in that said threads

Quote from applepie343434

and Gfriend will hit millions in sales and not disbanded.

This should've happened the world wasn't prepared for one of the best K-pop discographies ever I guess

Quote from SooYoung

actually interact in thread talking about idols talent, skills, their activity, their comeback etc...

he does

Quote from superyeah

I just like calling it out to bring awareness whenever I see it because I truly believe it’s an epidemic. If your favorites have ever been targeted in a hate train, charts are the likely culprit. But continue on if it’s your thing.

No you don’t you just complain lol I’m replying to OP because at least this is an interesting topic to me. Meanwhile I try to not interact too much with trolls here.

Shading gg for whatever reasons have been a thing since forever and I always defended my faves so please while you laugh with problematic users so don’t pull the moral card with me.

Quote from superyeah

I'm always in those non-charts threads. AKP is just full of threads that are about charting that it drowns out everything else.

The only reason why people have so much fake concern over "bad" stage performance is... You guessed it. Charts.

When they can't downplay aespa, BP, or TWICE on the charts, they come after their stage presence. The root of this is the fans' attachment to charts. I don't think they care about "bad" performance as much they claim. Deep down, they know every group had a performance that was less than stellar.

Antis will absolutely weaponize charts to spread hate. They claim numbers are objective and remove the humanness from it, but in doing so, they perpetuate this idea that artists are just commodities – only as good or valuable as their numbers.

Not to mention the rhetoric regarding demographics. They'll look down on certain countries or even ethnic groups as inferior due to lower contributions to an act's numbers.

That's my gripe with it. It causes a trickle-down effect where everyone involved gets dehumanized, and somehow we're supposed to accept this as the norm?

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You're overanalyzing it so much. There's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing success, obviously there will be people that use it to attack groups, but they'll also use stage performances or talent or any excuse you can find, the thing is to find an excuse to hate.

To discuss success is completely normal because it's the whole point of almost everything, even idols care about it and don't hide it. It's like if you were complaining about people talking about the winners of a sport competition because you prefer to talk about how hard the teams trained and the merit it has, yeah of course that's important but dude to win the freaking competition is relevant too, people are going to talk about it.

I'd say in Akp in specific there's a decent amount of users that like to talk about charts without wanting to shade anyone, that's rare, so just let us be. Apart from that, some people simply analyze numbers, stats or charts, and there's nothing wrong with it, if you're not among those who enjoy it simply don't engage but stop assuming there're ill intentions when there's no sign of it, and if you see someone using it to hate target that user in specific, you're a mod to warn them for that.

I don’t think the comparison with BP and Twice holds much here.

Blakepink and Twice always had both. Like I don’t think IVE has any market like Japan nor do I think LSFM has global streams like BP.

With that said I think they both are about the same level of over all popularity right now with LSFM taking the edge because from what I observed their concert is more well received (I’ve seen more viral clips and such) imo this is the first sign for a long lasting career that’s not just dependent on chart performance.

What did superyeah do this time

Do yall really need shi to bitch about that bad

For me, what really matters is how idols perform and are received in Korea. If a group isn’t doing well domestically, I don’t think it’s realistic for them to truly thrive internationally either. Some people may care more about global achievements because they mean bigger profits for idols and companies, but that’s not how I see it. I value the situations where idols have real artistic influence and cultural impact.

Abroad, kpop is still more of a niche phenomenon, whereas in Korea it’s part of the mainstream culture. That’s why I always place more importance on a group’s success and influence in Korea. Even though domestic and international performances usually go hand in hand, one will always outweigh the other for me and for every group I stan, it’s always the Korean side that matters more.

That’s also why I personally see IVE as more successful than Le Sserafim. At the end of the day, having influence in Korea feels much closer to my definition of success than just existing as something niche on the global stage.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I don’t think the comparison with BP and Twice holds much here.

Blakepink and Twice always had both. Like I don’t think IVE has any market like Japan nor do I think LSFM has global streams like BP.

With that said I think they both are about the same level of over all popularity right now with LSFM taking the edge because from what I observed their concert is more well received (I’ve seen more viral clips and such) imo this is the first sign for a long lasting career that’s not just dependent on chart performance.

Agree with this. BP and Twice aren't comparable when both dominated way more and are literally the biggest ggs, but it's an interesting situation with Ive that is so big in sk and Japan and lsrfm who have a good fb ww.

In the end it'll just go to what you think matters more.

I still think Ive is little ahead as their physical sales are still top1 in this gen and they still chart good.

Quote from monalisalove

Agree with this. BP and Twice aren't comparable when both dominated way more and are literally the biggest ggs, but it's an interesting situation with Ive that is so big in sk and Japan and lsrfm who have a good fb ww.

In the end it'll just go to what you think matters more.

I still think Ive is little ahead as their physical sales are still top1 in this gen and they still chart good.

Few years ago I would have given the edge if someone had more physical sales but sales just feels fake right now so I don’t give it much importance.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Few years ago I would have given the edge if someone had more physical sales but sales just feels fake right now so I don’t give it much importance.

After sales started going down again I actually feel like it's more "real" than in the beginning of this gen. But I can understand.. we really can't fake tours attendance.

Quote from echo-sage

If a group isn’t doing well domestically, I don’t think it’s realistic for them to truly thrive internationally either.

isn't this kinda flawed tho?

a group can be successful despite not doing well domestically but still be absolute beasts in the international scene. take stray kids for example. they thrive in the international scene despite not having much chart presence in korea.

It's time for K-Pop fans to decide which they enjoy more: being the biggest fish in a small pond or a little minnow in a great lake.