[enter-talk] BOTH MEOVV AND BABYMONSTER FLOPPED

5th gen girlgroups are just in a tight spot overall. They havent had a hit in Korea since Magnetic.

This generation of girlgroups from the big 3/4 just havent really clicked with the General Public yet. They have possibly the worst charting in the history of the big 4 if you really want to compare to the older generation.

In Babymonster's case it has just been highlighted more because they belong to a company who previously had never flopped in Korea for their GGs.

From what I can see the general public only listens to things that are trendy. Neither of these groups make music that is currently trendy.

I mean Meovv is doing better with each comeback... I think. Hands Up is still charting too. Top 30 I believe. Babymonster just had an awful 1st impression

Quote from z1

5th gen girlgroups are just in a tight spot overall. They havent had a hit in Korea since Magnetic.

This generation of girlgroups from the big 3/4 just havent really clicked with the General Public yet. They have possibly the worst charting in the history of the big 4 if you really want to compare to the older generation.

In Babymonster's case it has just been highlighted more because they belong to a company who previously had never flopped in Korea for their GGs.

Sticky is def a hit. It didn't have PAKs but it has amazing longevity for a summer song.

Quote from echo-sage

I agree, but it’s interesting how the new generation is struggling to capture the attention of the general public.

And because sudden, rapid success has become the norm especially at YG Entertainment these groups are often perceived as flop.

I think companies getting greedy and debuting more and more girlgroups as kpop become more profitable has been a big part of this.

Dont think it is a coincidence that there are still 3rd and 4th gen girlgroups still having hit songs in Korea in 2024-25 (Aespa, IVE, Blackpink, I-dle, NJZ) while 5th gen is struggling.

Market is just very saturated

No top girl groups (i.e top 3-5 of each generation) didn't have a least one hit song earlier into their careers.

This is understandable, because for big companies' groups the GP knew them from start. If they couldn't prove to have likeable music after 2-3 comebacks then the GP would lost patient.

All of the "growth" talks are just fandom copium. They can grow fandoms with time but won't become top groups from that.

Meovv still has chance, but time doesn't support BM in this case.

This was a stupid post when I read it the first time on pc, and it's stupid now. The worst thing you can say about MEOVV/BM is that they're under-performing expectations. Again, that's the absolute floor in terms of how you could describe their commercial success to date.

Calling either group a flop means that the word "flop" really has no meaning any more. That or the definition of the word has been stretched so much that it renders the word meaningless.

Because there is no way a song that has been in the top 20 on every chart (Hands Up) is a flop, and I can think of plenty of girl groups that would like to flop like BABYMONSTER.

The use of the word "flop" to describe either group today is just heinously stupid.

Quote from vzal

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Sticky is def a hit. It didn't have PAKs but it has amazing longevity for a summer song.

I dont consider a song which dont even have 400M digital points a hit song.

I hope they do well and I'm sure they should be given more leeway and praise for their achievements since they come from such a small company but we didnt need to lower standards for other generations for a defintion of a hit song- example Mamamoo, Momoland etc.

But you could have a different defintion of a hit song in Korea and im going to respect that

Quote from z1

I dont consider a song which dont even have 400M digital points a hit song.

I hope they do well and I'm sure they should be given more leeway and praise for their achievements since they come from such a small company but we didnt need to lower standards for other generations for a defintion of a hit song- example Mamamoo, Momoland etc.

But you could have a different defintion of a hit song in Korea and im going to respect that

...It is actually close very close to 400M digital points, and should reach it in a few weeks.

I am not asking you to lower your standards for them. I don't need to. The bar for 5th gen is in hell, yes and Sticky happens to be one of the better performing songs from 5th gen groups and as you can see in the tweet I linked, they are holding up very well against older gen groups.

For 5th gen standards, Sticky is most definitely a HIT and a top 3 GG song. I don't understand why you're using digital points to measure a song's performance in 2025 as it is common knowledge they are down for every artist.. it peaked back in 2018.. Anyway, you do you.

Quote from vzal

I don't understand why you're using digital points to measure a song's performance in 2025 as it is common knowledge they are down for every artist.. it peaked back in 2018

Digital points still takes into account most of the streaming services in Korea.

I am well aware that they are down since 2018 but we already lowered the standards for that. 400M in 2018/19 wouldnt even be considered as a hit. Also there are still many many lower hit level songs that can hit 400M since 2020, etc Illusion, Savage, Heya, Teddy Bear.

Its the same argument for the weeks/days in top 100 chart. That chart favours the newer generation due to chart reform, thats why very little girlgroups from 3rd gen appears in it. Im not sure why I cannot use digital points for argument when u want to utilize that statistic to list Sticky as a hit

Quote from echo-sage

Yes, but I guess a “hit” is mostly described as something like Magnetic or Whiplash. And I think having a hit song doesn’t change the fact of being considered a flop either in that case, you just become a one-hit flop or something like that. For example, ILLIT is definitely not a flop group, but compared to the groups from past generations, they’re less impactful like mid size, even though they have a hit song. I guess we could say the same thing for KOF as well.

No, it isn't. Magnetic and Whiplash are both examples of a big hit. Sticky is just a hit. It was not exactly huge but it certainly is a tier above songs like Sheesh, Drip and Hands Up.

It does. Was anyone calling Brave Girls flops when Rollin' was topping the charts and racking up PAKs? Or when they released their summer song and it had one of the strongest starts of the year? A hit song changes your status. It may be only for a short time but it definitely does.

There are several reasons why ILLIT and KIOF are less impactful than older groups and the biggest is that y'all haven't given them or any other 5th gen GG the time to grow.

Baemon sold over a million copies of their debut album and their Spotify stats are very strong.

I'd love my faves to flop like Baemon.

Quote from z1

Digital points still takes into account most of the streaming services in Korea.

I am well aware that they are down since 2018 but we already lowered the standards for that. 400M in 2018/19 wouldnt even be considered as a hit. Also there are still many many lower hit level songs that can hit 400M since 2020, etc Illusion, Savage, Heya, Teddy Bear.

Its the same argument for the weeks/days in top 100 chart. That chart favours the newer generation due to chart reform, thats why very little girlgroups from 3rd gen appears in it. Im not sure why I cannot use digital points for argument when u want to utilize that statistic to list Sticky as a hit

Illusion came out in 2022, digital points were still much better then as compared to now. Savage came out even earlier.

I never said Sticky was bigger than Heya so..? One look at their peak ULs will tell you everything.

And how many 5th gen songs other than Sticky lasted for 400 days on Melon top 100? TWO. And based on how everyone is charting these days, I am not expecting new entries anytime soon.

Sticky is a hit for 5th gen standards. I am not saying its a national hit or anything but you're just being stubborn by denying its hit status.

Why was h2h even mentioned they’re a 5 month rookie who has 2 songs charting and STYLE will probably break into the top 20 next week that comment was so unnecessary and false

Anyways I don’t agree Meovv or BM are flops! Meovv are rising each comeback! They’re still in top 30!

BM don’t chart the best but isn’t Hotsauce an English comeback not a fair song to judge! We need a Korean comeback to decide if they’re making progress with the public

It's a bit silly to call them "flops", they are doing a lot better a lot other groups.

And to think BM would rush to be a top 3 group when BP are still active is not realistic.

And we don't have a "5th generation" either by the pure reason that we still have 3rd generation groups and 4th generation groups in the top, all groups debuting now are 4th generation if we really need still need to use that concept. The concept is really outdated.

Now suddenly BM aren't flops uh

I think NewJeans and IVE ruined people's perception in what to expect from rookie groups. People need to realize that NewJeans was an anomaly, and don't expect groups to have that kind of historic run. NewJeans members weren't known the public like Wonyoung and Yujin were. You have to give credit to both groups for having strong starts and carrying on momentum gained from strong starts.

I think the main problem with 5th gen groups they're battling with with 4th gen groups in their prime. I don't even think IVE or Aespa has reached their ceilings yet and that will impact 5th gen groups. I think many people forgot that 3rd gen already faded by the time most of the 4th gen group debuted. I am unsure when 4th gen will fade and that will always impact 5th gen's success. The groups aren't just competing with other 5th gen groups, they're also competing against IVE, Aespa, NewJeans, Idle, LSF, etc.

Both Meovv and BaeMon are doing fine, and most groups don't start hot right away and keep momentum like NewJeans and IVE did. I feel as long as a group is able to tour and sell units, then they should be fine. I don't know how you can consider a group that has performed in arenas in North America a flop. Also we should wait for year 3 to consider a group a flop unless they completely flopped in key metrics in their first year.

if we were being honest, it's not just 5th gen that were struggling in SK. 3rd Gen GG also didn't do well.

if you took blackpink out of the map, the 4th Gen GG already beat the 3rd Gen for years on charts/album sales/music show/concert tickets and soon 5th Gen.

Quote from SooYoung

But cuz H2h and kiiikiii are doing generic and safe songs it's hard to know what is their image, what is their sound and actually stand out from each other because they are all targetting the same market

While if you look at 4th gen gg, they all seems to have been very successfull quickly cuz looking at their concept and even sound none of them were competiting for the same public so it made them all find their public and stand out

If you compare for example Aespa, Nj, ive or lesserafim you can't say they remind you of each other

But when you look at kiiikiii and H2h it's clear that they are targetting the same public

Same for meovv and BM

So 5th gen gg are walking on each other toes

While 4th gen gg were walking each one on their own path that's why they were able to be successfull all of them

And build big fanbase without competiting directly with each other for the same type of public

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I think the reason they're going safe route with H2H is because of age. I think concept-wise they're limited and have to set themselves apart with music rather than concepts. I think what makes the group seem safe is there are too many groups aiming for similar aesthetics. It's why the groups that are doing something different are seeing success.

I think the media and companies were too early to declare a 5th gen. The public is not ready to move on from IVE, Aespa, NewJeans (if they return), and even groups like Idle and LSF aren't going to fade away that easily. WE can be 5 years into 5th gen and I can see the top 3 groups still dominating the charts in 2028

no i dont stan flops

Quote from echo-sage

6. [+36, -0]
Heart2Heart flopped even harder

Quote from Tru-Multistan

no i dont stan flops

Baby monster is safe now that the forum is meow biased

Quote from littlemissnoname

I mean Meovv is doing better with each comeback... I think. Hands Up is still charting too. Top 30 I believe.

Yeah, it’s better for groups to start off slow and build up over time rather than peaking in their first few years.

These knetz think success is solely determined by how big your debut or early hits are but growth >>>>>

Quote from StanGIDLE

I think the main problem with 5th gen groups they're battling with with 4th gen groups in their prime. I don't even think IVE or Aespa has reached their ceilings yet and that will impact 5th gen groups. I think many people forgot that 3rd gen already faded by the time most of the 4th gen group debuted. I am unsure when 4th gen will fade and that will always impact 5th gen's success. The groups aren't just competing with other 5th gen groups, they're also competing against IVE, Aespa, NewJeans, Idle, LSF, etc.

Both Meovv and BaeMon are doing fine, and most groups don't start hot right away and keep momentum like NewJeans and IVE did. I feel as long as a group is able to tour and sell units, then they should be fine. I don't know how you can consider a group that has performed in arenas in North America a flop. Also we should wait for year 3 to consider a group a flop unless they completely flopped in key metrics in their first year.

Most top group often rise to the top and peak in their early days, at least that is my impression. Few groups suddenly rise to the top after year two, even if their always are exception like BTS for example. Groups like Blackpink, Twice and NewJeans came out with guns blazing from the start, sure we have some slow starters like Girls' Generation, 2NE1 and T-ara, but within 1-2 years they where full steam ahead and maybe already peaking year 3-4.

But yes, all groups should get about two years and a couple of singles before judging their chances to climb even higher. But I doubt a group like Babymonster suddenly would get a huge boost of popularity, it's just too crowded with other groups. But everying can happen if you get a big hit. Aespa have probably peaked, that don't mean they will be a top group for a bit longer, just don't really see them getting any more popular than they are.

Quote from patrik-k

Most top group often rise to the top and peak in their early days, at least that is my impression. Few groups suddenly rise to the top after year two, even if their always are exception like BTS for example. Groups like Blackpink, Twice and NewJeans came out with guns blazing from the start, sure we have some slow starters like Girls' Generation, 2NE1 and T-ara, but within 1-2 years they where full steam ahead and maybe already peaking year 3-4.

None of the groups mentioned were slow starters.

BTS was the biggest group debuted in 2013, got every rockie award.

2NE1 was the definition of "monster rockie".

T-ara and Girls' Generation both had hits 3 months after debuted.

They didn't even need 1 year to prove the potential.

Quote from vinslow4

None of the groups mentioned were slow starters.

BTS was the biggest group debuted in 2013, got every rockie award.

2NE1 was the definition of "monster rockie".

T-ara and Girls' Generation both had hits 3 months after debuted.

They didn't even need 1 year to prove the potential

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Girls' Geneartion, T-ara, 2NE! did not exploded right from their debut song it took maybe their second single or so before shoot to the top, so that why I said like I said, but sure you confirm what I said, must group that will be big top group often get big right away or within their first 1 year.

BTS? I don't know if I'm totally wrong, I don't follow them, but what I know they was pretty nogu group the first years, I still remember them as BangTangBoys. What I can see their first song to reached top five of the Gaon Digital Chart was in 2015, about two years after their debut.