Would it have been better if Illit did not debut and NewJeans continued to operate under Ador?

    Would it have been better if Illit didn't debut and New Jeans continued to operate in Ador? 26

    1. Yes (11) 42%
    2. No (15) 58%

    Michael Brown of Caltech discovered something in the solar system, which was given the number 136199.


    136199 was larger than Pluto, the 9th planet and the only planet discovered by an American, Clyde Tombaugh. (the first 5 planets were known for a long time, Saturn discovered by Gallilei of Italy, Uranus was discovered by William Herschel, a German-born British citizen, and Neptune was discovered by Urbain Le Verrier of France)

    There is something called utilitarianism, which brings more utility. It may be unpalatable to some, but is more beneficial overall.


    Since 136199 was larger than Pluto Brown expected to become the discoverer of a new planet, but because of a bunch of things I won't bore AllKpoppers around, it was disqualified as a planet, and since Pluto was smaller than 136199, named Eris , the goddess of strife best known for invoking the Trojan War after all the ruckus it brought to the astronomy, Pluto was also removed from the list of planets and Michael Brown became the person who removed the only American discovered planet from the list.


    For an American perspective, it would have been better if Brown did not discover Eris.

    ===


    New Jeans had the potential to become a worldwide phenomenon, while Illit, I have to say, does not. It will have some presence in Japan and that would be it.


    If Illit did not debut, MHJ would not have been ticked off that badly, and she might have changed the plans to rebel.


    So no Illit, and NewJeans would have expanded much larger in 2024 with more presence everywhere.


    It would have been unfortunate for Noh Yunah, Park Minju and Sakai Moka (much less so for Lee Wonhee, who would never have become an idol to begin with, or Hokazono Iroha, who was young enough to find another opportunity) but much better as far as the entire Kpop industry was concerned.


    With the putative New Jeans 2024 World Tour, which would have dwarfed the farcial 'world tour' of a certain 1,351 years old singer, and the debut of MHJ's 2025 boy group (about whom nothing more is heard of), KPop might have had another renaissance.


    Instead of that, NewJeans's future is not that encouraging, Illit will probably not expand out of Japan, and an irreparable crack occured in Hybe which will probably make BTS' next comeback as the final comeback as whole for a long time as the members have now learned that MHJ was supposed to be paid much, much more than them, who built Hybe from nothing, a trend which was seen by Seokjin having to have a personal concert just after the other members are returning, making other members angry and demanding to have their own concerts.


    Illit's debut, in retrospect, seems to be a big mistake, since Illit is unlikely to expand too much more from where it is now, while creating all these issues.


    Bang made Katseye, seen as a failure by many, attend the Le Sserafim concert along with Illit, showing Illit that it is now in the same league as Katseye, which i seems to be unfair since unlike Katseye, Illit did chart in Hot 100 before. But that seems to be what is going on Bang's mind now

    yes, in this way ı think hybe would have become a well-established label like jyp,sm and yg. hybe only has bts as a legendary act under its belt. and of course, both sides ADOR and NewJeans would have benefited more from it. illit’s debut could have been postponed until NewJeans had fully cemented their legendary position in the industry.

    If Belift didn't use MHJ's production presentation for NewJeans, I see no issue with them, nor if they went for the rumoured RubyMoon name and concept. However, BSH saw NewJeans outshining Hybe's brand, and saw it as a threat.

  • AllKill VIP

    No. The MHJ vs HYBE situation was inevitable due to MHJ trying to literally trying to commit corporate espionage. MHJ and NJZ would've been in this situation to begin with due to MHJ alone. MHJ just used ILLIT to distract from her wrongdoings and use kpop stan's gullible nature to her favor. She's done it before with her decades long history of predatory behavior and concepts involving minors.

    Quote from xPaulettex

    I say no it wasn't a mistake. Its not their fault they wanted to live out their dreams too. I totally blame MHJ as she wanted all the fame for herself and couldn't stand to see another group (that she didn't make) have success. Now that the hate train for them has subsided I do see them doing well.

    :cheer-bunny:

    The girl aren't in control of their concept, those who manage them and their creative director. MHJ criticised the production process, not the styling. Go watch the press conference and read what she said. That press conferences has been extrapolated and distorted by those who want to see what they want to see. It's not her fault tokkis and dimwits extrapolate and distort her words, and it's not for her to apologise for others actions.

    Quote from timedisplace

    No. The MHJ vs. HYBE situation was inevitable due to MHJ trying to commit corporate espionage. MHJ and NJZ would've been in this situation to begin with due to MHJ alone. MHJ just used ILLIT to distract from her wrongdoings and use kpop stan's gullible nature to her favor. She's done it before with her decades long history of predatory behavior and concepts involving minors.

    Oh come on. We know why she wanted to split them off, and that is because her issues weren't being addressed by Hybe.

  • AllKill VIP

    I don't think illit debut is the problem

    It's the fact that the debut song was a global hit

    If magnetic wasn't a global hit i don't think Mhj would have even cared about the concept similarities enough to raise it

    It was the fact that magnetic turned out to be a hit that got her panicking and firing off that internal email to Hybe (via the parents)

    I personally think it was a wrong assessment on her part as illit would have never caught upto njz popularity as njz's brand was strong

    Quote from CaraFIMIE

    Please elaborate on these "issues."

    This being one.

    Read Min Hee Jin's complaint email to HYBE, calling out the underhanded 'advanced purchase' tactic
    A portion of Min Hee Jin's complain email sent to HYBE executives, recently revealed during a court hearing held on May 17 KST, can be foun…
    www.allkpop.com

    HYBE began to oust Min Hee Jin after she demanded an internal investigation into HYBE artists increasing first-week album sales through 'advanced purchases'
    On the morning of May 17 at KST, the 50th civil court division of the Seoul Central District Court convened for a hearing in the ongoing le…
    www.allkpop.com

    Quote from echo-sage

    yes, in this way ı think hybe would have become a well-established label like jyp,sm and yg. hybe only has bts as a legendary act under its belt. and of course, both sides ADOR and NewJeans would have benefited more from it. illit’s debut could have been postponed until NewJeans had fully cemented their legendary position in the industry.

    The rationale was that the three older members of Illit, born in 2005, would have been too old to debut if Illit's debut was delayed.


    But, too bad for them. Hybe had enough time to release these three, get some fire from Knets (and less so from international fans who did not know who they were to begin with), and wait for 2-3 years. Iroha would have reached about 18 or 19 years old, Wonhee never becoming an idol, and there would have been no shortage of newer trainees to fill their gaps.

    Quote from BIGnorBANG

    If Belift didn't use MHJ's production presentation for NewJeans, I see no issue with them, nor if they went for the rumoured RubyMoon name and concept. However, BSH saw NewJeans outshining Hybe's brand, and saw it as a threat.

    It is likely that Kim Taeho, the head of Belift, wanted to curry favor to Bang, who was by then too busy to be concerned about a girl group. He saw Illit for the first time at the LS concert, along with Katseye, for which he was more involved with. Illit members talked more about seeing LS than meeting Bang or Katseye, whom they don't really have a bond with.

    Quote from xPaulettex

    I say no it wasn't a mistake. Its not their fault they wanted to live out their dreams too. I totally blame MHJ as she wanted all the fame for herself and couldn't stand to see another group (that she didn't make) have success. Now that the hate train for them has subsided I do see them doing well.

    :cheer-bunny:

    It would have been cruel for the older three, but business is business.


    Since it is now clear that Illit will not even bring half of NewJeans' potential revenue, only relevant in Japan to some degree and nowhere else, Belift created another LeSserafim which at least has an American and so has more potentials.


    MHJ was ticked off, which was not good since especially after Youngseo left for reasons no one knows, Illit no longer had any chance of competing with NewJeans. But if Illit didn't debut at all none of this would have occurred.

    Quote from timedisplace

    No. The MHJ vs HYBE situation was inevitable due to MHJ trying to literally trying to commit corporate espionage. MHJ and NJZ would've been in this situation to begin with due to MHJ alone. MHJ just used ILLIT to distract from her wrongdoings and use kpop stan's gullible nature to her favor. She's done it before with her decades long history of predatory behavior and concepts involving minors.

    It would have ruptured after NewJeans got bigger and the revenue was too much for Hybe to give up and the risk would have been too much for the girls to not wait out until 2029.


    Illit was the trigger.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    It is likely that Kim Taeho, the head of Belift, wanted to curry favor to Bang, who was by then too busy to be concerned about a girl group. He saw Illit for the first time at the LS concert, along with Katseye, for which he was more involved with. Illit members talked more about seeing LS than meeting Bang or Katseye, whom they don't really have a bond with.

    That's interesting... However, BSH did retain his chairman role of the board of directors at Hybe, so he'll have some influence, if not direct. TBH, the men at the company seem to try to curry favour with BSH. Park Ji-won probably thinks he'll be the next BSH or something, but he could never be like him, as he went through many years of struggle with his pride and joy, BTS.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    The rationale was that the three older members of Illit, born in 2005, would have been too old to debut if Illit's debut was delayed.


    But, too bad for them. Hybe had enough time to release these three, get some fire from Knets (and less so from international fans who did not know who they were to begin with), and wait for 2-3 years. Iroha would have reached about 18 or 19 years old, Wonhee never becoming an idol, and there would have been no shortage of newer trainees to fill their gaps.

    debuting at 18, 19, or even 20 years old should be normalized in the kpop. And I think Magnetic is a song that would have been a hit no matter who sang it , it doesn’t really require serious vocal skills or anything.

    Quote from tetetete

    I don't think illit debut is the problem

    It's the fact that the debut song was a global hit

    If magnetic wasn't a global hit i don't think Mhj would have even cared about the concept similarities enough to raise it

    It was the fact that magnetic turned out to be a hit that got her panicking and firing off that internal email to Hybe (via the parents)

    I personally think it was a wrong assessment on her part as illit would have never caught upto njz popularity as njz's brand was strong

    It was wrong for Belift, headed by Kim Taeho, to give such song to Illit, a new act.


    The debut songs of Baemon, Meovv, Kiiikiii and Hearts2Hearts , while making some grounds, did not become huge hits. Magnetic is the first rookie debut KPop song to enter Hot 100, and MHJ probably got ticked off that if the entire Hybe power was used Illit would supplant New Jeans. Whether she was right or not is less of an issue; she had reasons to be concerned about.


    Like GFriend, whose best song was the 3rd song, if Kim Taeho did not try the Go for Broke strategy initially and decided to 'build up' Illit from the bottom, even if Magnetic, which would have become the comeback song of this time, became a hit MHJ would not have been ticked off since NJ would have been much bigger than what it was in early 2024.


    Kim Taeho had to show his value to Bang faster so he used magnetic as the debut song, and from there everything began to fall apart.

    Quote from echo-sage

    debuting at 18, 19, or even 20 years old should be normalized in the K-pop. And I think Magnetic is a song that would have been a hit no matter who sang it , it doesn’t really require serious vocal skills or anything.

    Should be legal that no idol below 18 debuts, and that they have to pass their GCSE UK-equivalent in SKorea. In addition, trainee training has to fit around schooling, not the other way around.

    MHJ's plan to take NJs out of HYBE, was in the works before Illit even existed. Some would say it was in the works before NJs even existed (before she brought them for SoMU to ADOR). MHJ was ALWAYS going to use HYBE's clout and money to speedrun "her" group to high status, for the sole purpose of leveraging their popularity and returns to start her own company. I don't even think NJs was her final goal. She wanted what BSH had and felt she deserved it. So she wrote up this stupid azz plot with crayons and illit was just collateral damage. Just a tool to use to get to what she really wanted.

  • AllKill VIP

    Come on people :skull:

    ILLIT was never the problem

    you forget that MHJ also implicated LSFM and if Katseye was old enough she'd have used KATSEYE too lmao

    The AUDIT of ADOR was BECAUSE a whistleblower told HYBE

    that MHJ was MAKING PLANS to betray them

    Her claiming that the plans in her texts are absurd does not ERASE the text messages that were real.

    ILLIT was just used to divert people's attention off of her own betrayal and to push the betrayal onto HYBE instead. It was a way to justify her actions.

    "It's not betrayal if you betrayed me FIRST!"

  • AllKill VIP

    The major issue with Illit is their rollout to introduce the group. It's very uncommon for a group within the same company to debut a group with a lot of similarities that are 2-3 years apart. People can rewrite history but many were pointing out the similarities to NewJeans.


    That's why Hybe needs to slow down because there's bound to be overlap. Plus, it doesn't help that we later learned Belift took MHJ's plans for NewJeans and applied it to the group.


    Personally, i think what's done is done and they have potential. I just think they might have debuted them too soon and created an overlap with NewJeans. I guess they beat other groups to the punch because 5th gen groups seem to be following Newjeans formula.

    Quote from ISaidISaid

    Common. Entire kwangya concept is based on EXO PLANET as the prototype. That’s how companies work.

    Lol SM is one entity. Ador and Bethief aren't. As simple as that.


    They are RIVAL companies with completely different management and creative team who just happen to coexist within the same parent company.


    Truth is, this 'sublabel' bs was just an illusion bango sold to his rivals so he could buy them out, then infiltrate their structure and literally steal the whole company in order to neutrelize and accaparate competition.


    Basically he was always going to take full control of all the sublabels and at the sole benefice of Big Hit.


    And he mostly uses the sublabels to generate more loans and put money into his gaming crap.

    actually it was ILLIT debut + Magnetic being successful that threatened MHJ


    I doubt MHJ will point out ILLIT's similarity if ILLIT is flopping. More points to her for able to make NJ successful using same concept and others cant.


    But again, the major point is the beef between MHJ and BSH

    Quote from WhyKnock

    That's why companies have analysts, who analyze the pros and cons of debuting an act and whether they would get into other acts' successes.


    Kim Taeho was in a hurry to prove himself before Bang and it is he who messed up everything

    and they failed to analyze MHJ prior to her hiring and the creation of NJ and later Illit and LSFM

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