Was exo SM's last truly impressive act?

Exo were/are amazing. Not just because of their success but also because of their talent. So yes.

No.

Red Velvet wasn't mid tier. They were top tier.

3rd generation was ruled by Mamamoo, Red Velvet, BlackPink, Twice and GFriend.

Don't be disrespectful.

Red Flavor and Psycho happened

I will answer after I see the new NCT produced by BoA. If they can't do better with BoA, then my answer is yes.

Quote from versatile

What's this? I haven't heard of it I love boa

Here: K-pop icon BoA takes on producer role for NCT WISH's debut album | allkpop

Quote from versatile

Gfriend twice battled for top tier. Then blackpink came along vs twice.

RV are hit or miss they had their psycho their really bad boy half of their titles under performed. They were among the top but not there.

2015 is the year they were arguably on top but besides that nothing else.

Wrong. They had arguably the biggest hit song in Korea in 2017, and they also had the biggest hit in late 2019/2020 with Psycho.

There were years where they were top 3 digitally (2017) and years where they weren't (2016/2018), but overall they've always been top tier.

You don't know your 3rd gen girl groups if you call any of the Big 5 groups mid tier

Quote from versatile

I meant they weren't top tier as in competing with twice blackpink gfriend. They were just below that.

What are you even basing that on? Did you look at the actual numbers behind their success or just go off how it felt to you?

Red Velvet literally competed with them, as did Mamamoo. They were not below them. They were at par with them.

Stop your capping

Quote from versatile

Popularity they weren't. I'm not sure why you lying for. I was there in 3rd gen all those years rv been active.

Mamamoo arguably above them too in their peak so there's no real argument they had hits but they had flops have to include those too.

Every top girl group had "flops" by the lofty standards they set. Even BlackPink had a song that didn't even hit #1 in Kill This Love.

And in popularity, they were. Red Velvet is the most followed 3rd generation girl group on MelOn, and they have two of the biggest hit songs of 3rd generation. What do you mean?

This chart is from 2019

They were extremely popular. This doesn't even count Psycho (or Hip for MMM).

nct are a top group leave them alone

Quote from versatile

We can look at numbers all day but anyone will tell you they weren't on par with twice and blackpink it's just not really a competition. They just had hits but nobody cared about the group.

I don't care what anyone will tell me, if they're ignorant about what the objective data says. The facts don't support your narrative. Calling Red Velvet mid tier is dumb. Were they the absolute most popular group at any point? No. But that doesn't make the mid tier.

How can you say nobody cares about the most followed third gen girl group on MelOn with a straight face? Sit down!

Quote from versatile

Gfriend twice battled for top tier. Then blackpink came along vs twice.

RV are hit or miss they had their psycho their really bad boy half of their titles under performed. They were among the top but not there.

2015 is the year they were arguably on top but besides that nothing else.

What TOP TIER means, in this case? Always #1 on charts? I don't think that was the case with Gfriend and TWICE, or BP.

Mamamoo was an unstoppable train from 2017 till 2020. Basically every title-track from them was in the TOP5. Not to mention HIP, that was a worldwide success. Hwasa alone ruled the charts in 2019-2020. Also, Mamamoo not only competed with other groups, they fought with the whole Kpop industry too while ruling the charts. Red Velvet was top, for sure, but not always. Blackpink became huge after 2019 or so. I don't really remember what happened with Gfriend.

Quote from versatile

We can look at numbers all day but anyone will tell you they weren't on par with twice and blackpink it's just not really a competition. They just had hits but nobody cared about the group.

How is that possible to be on top while "nobody" cares about them? That's not possible. 🤣

Quote from David33

I don't really remember what happened with Gfriend.

Fingertip happened

Quote from versatile

The only song that got them to the top was a remake of a former actual successful SM group HOT.

so??

i don't agree with mid-tier rv but i also don't remember them being the flagship group for sm despite their success

Quote from KYL

i don't agree with mid-tier rv but i also don't remember them being the flagship group for sm despite their success

I love Red Velvet, BUT for me the most impressive thing that they do is SM "created" the best female vocalist, probably. Yes, I'm talking about Wendy. I don't think I could choose between Wendy, Solar and Wheein, especially now, after how much Solar evolved since her Mata Hari musical, but I still think Wendy is better. But not much.

Quote from David33

I love Red Velvet, BUT for me the most impressive thing that they do is SM "created" the best female vocalist, probably. Yes, I'm talking about Wendy. I don't think I could choose between Wendy, Solar and Wheein, especially now, after how much Solar evolved since her Mata Hari musical, but I still think Wendy is better. But not much.

i think wheein is the best among those three

Quote from KYL

i think wheein is the best among those three

I chose her as well like 3 years ago or so, but now that Solar has a much better resonance, stamina, control over her voice, and better lower range, I'm not sure. I don't really want to choose, I love all 3, so...😅

Did you see this? This is why I can't pick, btw.

Also, her new Gamsung single MV:

Quote from David33

I chose her as well like 3 years ago or so, but now that Solar has a much better resonance, stamina, control over her voice, and better lower range, I'm not sure. I don't really want to choose, I love all 3, so...😅

Did you see this? This is why I can't pick, btw.

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Also, her new Gamsung single MV:

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this is my fav performance by them

Quote from YamaChwan

No.

Red Velvet wasn't mid tier. They were top tier.

3rd generation was ruled by Mamamoo, Red Velvet, BlackPink, Twice and GFriend.

Don't be disrespectful.

Red Flavor and Psycho happened

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Without sales/fandom they were never in any contention for the top group spot ever Yama let’s not kid ourselves. They were significantly below twice and blackpink no two ways about it.

Red velvet had some Korean hits, after being from SM if a GG can’t even do that it would be very pitiable.

No group without touring and sales can ever be a top group

RV was definitely not a top tier group from SM. This is a known and established fact.

And I don’t say this because I dislike them or anything. I really love RV’s music. Aespa is far more of a top act than RV ever will be considered. This is a fact. A top group needs everything and RV did not have it.

The top group of 3rd gen was only Twice and BP.

4th gen has far more well rounded successful groups than 3rd gen ever did.

Were they digitally a successful group in Korea? Sure. Were they actually a flagship successful group bringing in money view sales and touring and fandom while also having digital hit? Never. And that will remain.

My answer is I think aespa is a top group. The thing is in 4th Gen we now have an added “international” hit criteria (more so than in 2nd and 3rd Gen) which aespa don’t yet have. So some might be hesitant to put them in the top spot. Not personally for me even if some might bring it up.

But they fulfill requirements of being a top act more or less with both GP interest and fandom support so I believe SM still have it. Riize also seem very promising but will withhold judgement for another year.

Quote from YamaChwan

3rd generation was ruled by Mamamoo

Quote from KYL

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this is my fav performance by them

Yep, I can't argue with this. I love this.

Quote from ISaidISaid

4th gen has far more well rounded successful groups than 3rd gen ever did.

Were they digitally a successful group in Korea? Sure. Were they actually a flagship successful group bringing in money view sales and touring and fandom while also having digital hit? Never. And that will remain.

Please, tell me you're joking. I couldn't name more than 2 or 3 successful 4th gen GIRL groups!

1st: Mamamoo literally build RBW from the ground with their talent, without any PR, they did that alone, too. They're basically the female version of BTS or Bigbang, without the massive worldwide success. As I already said, they changed the whole Kpop industry while topping the charts. Also, after 9 years, they broke the record, and became the best selling US debut tour with My Con.

2nd: Red Velvet, TWICE and Blackpink, pretty much the most successful girl groups in the 3rd gen, hell, I would say, All-time. No 4th gen can come close to them. Maybe NewJeans after a couple of years.

Sure, NewJeans, G-Idle and Aespa are successful, but every other group is in the mid-tier at best. Those aren't as impactful. I could mention IVE too, and even tho I like them, I don't think they're more successful than NJ, G-Idle or Aespa. Nowadays is much easier for groups.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Without sales/fandom they were never in any contention for the top group spot ever Yama let’s not kid ourselves. They were significantly below twice and blackpink no two ways about it.

Red velvet had some Korean hits, after being from SM if a GG can’t even do that it would be very pitiable.

No group without touring and sales can ever be a top group

RV was definitely not a top tier group from SM. This is a known and established fact.

And I don’t say this because I dislike them or anything. I really love RV’s music. Aespa is far more of a top act than RV ever will be considered. This is a fact. A top group needs everything and RV did not have it.

The top group of 3rd gen was only Twice and BP.

4th gen has far more well rounded successful groups than 3rd gen ever did.

Were they digitally a successful group in Korea? Sure. Were they actually a flagship successful group bringing in money view sales and touring and fandom while also having digital hit? Never. And that will remain.

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Stop judging third generation girl groups using fourth generation standards.

For where the industry was back in 2014, the year Red Velvet debuted, and literally a decade ago, Red Velvet was an extremely successful group.

Did they sell as many albums as Twice? No, but I never said they were the most popular group, just one of the most popular.

During that time period, touring numbers weren't what we see today, and as was made very clear to me by Onces ironically enough, we didn't value them as much back then. Relative to their peers, overall, Red Velvet sold way more albums and had way more hit songs. Just look at the image I posted.

You all need to stop comparing Red Velvet to the peak numbers of the most popular group of the era. By that logic, I could easily say no 4th generation girl group is top tier other than NewJeans, looking at the enormous gap overall in their metrics relative to their peers.

Red Velvet was never the most popular group in Korea, but they were close, and I promise ANYONE here, if you hopped into a time machine, went to 2017 and said "Red Velvet is mid tier", you would get utterly roasted and laughed out of the room.

Now stop strawmanning me. I never said they were THE top group; I said they were A top group. They were absolutely competitive with BlackPink and Twice, as was Mamamoo and GFriend at their respective peaks.

tl;dr: It's ridiculous to claim Red Velvet was a mid tier group.

No shade, but that would be groups like Lovelyz or OMG.

Quote from David33

Yep, I can't argue with this. I love this.

Please, tell me you're joking. I couldn't name more than 2 or 3 successful 4th gen GIRL groups!

1st: Mamamoo literally build RBW from the ground with their talent, without any PR, they did that alone, too. They're basically the female version of BTS or Bigbang, without the massive worldwide success. As I already said, they changed the whole Kpop industry while topping the charts. Also, after 9 years, they broke the record, and became the best selling US debut tour with My Con.

2nd: Red Velvet, TWICE and Blackpink, pretty much the most successful girl groups in the 3rd gen, hell, I would say, All-time. No 4th gen can come close to them. Maybe NewJeans after a couple of years.

Sure, NewJeans, G-Idle and Aespa are successful, but every other group is in the mid-tier at best. Those aren't as impactful. I could mention IVE too, and even tho I like them, I don't think they're more successful than NJ, G-Idle or Aespa. Nowadays is much easier for groups.

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Sure Jan.

Quote from YamaChwan

Stop judging third generation girl groups using fourth generation standards.

For where the industry was back in 2014, the year Red Velvet debuted, and literally a decade ago, Red Velvet was an extremely successful group.

Did they sell as many albums as Twice? No, but I never said they were the most popular group, just one of the most popular.

During that time period, touring numbers weren't what we see today, and as was made very clear to me by Onces ironically enough, we didn't value them as much back then. Relative to their peers, overall, Red Velvet sold way more albums and had way more hit songs. Just look at the image I posted.

You all need to stop comparing Red Velvet to the peak numbers of the most popular group of the era. By that logic, I could easily say no 4th generation girl group is top tier other than NewJeans, looking at the enormous gap overall in their metrics relative to their peers.

Red Velvet was never the most popular group in Korea, but they were close, and I promise ANYONE here, if you hopped into a time machine, went to 2017 and said "Red Velvet is mid tier", you would get utterly roasted and laughed out of the room.

Now stop strawmanning me. I never said they were THE top group; I said they were A top group. They were absolutely competitive with BlackPink and Twice, as was Mamamoo and GFriend at their respective peaks.

tl;dr: It's ridiculous to claim Red Velvet was a mid tier group.

No shade, but that would be groups like Lovelyz or OMG.

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Aespa can sell as much as new jeans and even more. So for me they would be a top group indeed. I also gave a disclaimer about international success if you consider it you can indeed discount everyone other than new jeans. I personally won’t but you may do so.

I’m not judging 3rd gen with 4th gen criteria. RV did not have a fandom this is a fact. Even by 3rd gen standards they did not have a fandom. SNSD is a group that had both fandom and GP. They didn’t have 4th gen success but I still consider them a top group.

Quote from TheBotter

How many times did Twice release an unpromoted B-Side that immediately scored a real-time all-kill on the charts? Did Twice ever have two members from their group score a Perfect All-Kill on the charts multiple times? Was it Twice that broke and set a new record for 24 hour unique listeners and currently has the most cumulative ULs of any girl group in MelOn history? Or did Twice have a four year streak of either a group release or solo release hitting #1 on the charts? When Twice was busy getting exposed by the More and More encore stage, Koreans were saying Believe and Listen to Mamamoo (BeLisMaMoo). Mamamoo was also the first group to start holding concerts, the first members to start holding solo concerts and the second group, after GFriend, to get a Perfect All-Kill in the third generation. For most of the third generation, they were the most followed girl group on MelOn (it took years for, interestingly enough, Red Velvet to surpass them). And when little piss ants like you questioned their power in Korea, and predicted they would get crushed by BlackPink in 2017, a weak year by Mamamoo's standards, they outcharted BP for a month, despite both songs dropping on the same hour, and won most of the music shows, only losing on Inkigayo, since it counted YT views.

Don't come for me unless I send for you.

You think I bring heat when I'm talking NewJeans? You don't want to press my Mamamoo button.

Quote from YamaChwan

Stop judging third generation girl groups using fourth generation standards.

You all need to stop comparing Red Velvet to the peak numbers of the most popular group of the era. By that logic, I could easily say no 4th generation girl group is top tier other than NewJeans, looking at the enormous gap overall in their metrics relative to their peers.

EXACTLY!

Quote from ISaidISaid

Sure Jan.

You're starting a conversation, or more like trolling, people posting comments with real arguments, and here you are, acting like a 5 years old Tiktok user. Congrats! 👏 You don't have to agree with others, but at least make a good point.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I’m not judging 3rd gen with 4th gen criteria. RV did not have a fandom this is a fact. Even by 3rd gen standards they did not have a fandom. SNSD is a group that had both fandom and GP. They didn’t have 4th gen success but I still consider them a top group.

Sure, Jan!🫠

Before I forgot, this record by Hwasa is still unbeaten!

MAMAMOO's Hwasa Becomes The Only Idol Of Her Generation To Achieve Realtime All-Kills For Solo, Collab, Project & Group Songs

Quote from ISaidISaid

Aespa can sell as much as new jeans and even more. So for me they would be a top group indeed.

They don't have a single number 1 song on Circle in their careers. Closest was Next Level and that was years ago.

As for album sales, we saw what happened with their most recent album, whereas NewJeans just set a Circle record for most cumulative album sales in a year. We all know their next album is going to break every single record. Just last week, Get Up tied the Billboard 200 record held by BlackPink (The Album) for most weeks on the BB 200 (26 weeks).

They also sold more albums in the U.S. than any other female group from the 4th generation by a significant margin.

We can't use the top of the top tier to downgrade all the other groups, or nobody but the top group is top tier.

Even I wouldn't say that lol.

Even if I want to

Quote from ISaidISaid

RV did not have a fandom this is a fact. Even by 3rd gen standards they did not have a fandom.

Sis. They sold 100k albums back when that actually meant something. They absolutely had a fandom.

What is with the revisionist history going on in this thread? Their fandom wasn't as big as Twice, but you all are acting like they had a Sistar or Miss A level fandom.

Like...what???

They were a TOP TIER GROUP relative to their peers in the third generation. You can't just only compare them to peak Twice or BlackPink. Hell, they held on to their digital power for much longer than Twice even.

Some might say no as SM current acts are beating EXO in sales and are at their most acrive time while EXO is everywhere but not as a group.

Personally it is as it is the act that truly made me love kpop for some time and is the one keeping me here.