Will KPop ever reach world domination again? Probably not

  • In retrospect, Mr. "Hitman" Bang Sihyuk will probably go down with the executive who had the world under his thumb but let it slip away.


    I have said quite a few times that Bang should have moved BTS to USA as soon as concerts resumed there and run them thru.


    Its successes in USA and elsewhere in 2021-22 would probably have silenced the Korean politicians. Incels would have balked, but they are, in terms of power and influence, not really relevant.


    When IU posts the 2nd part of her concert behind the scenes clip I will write an essay about how much she was influential about bringing KPop down (the impact was HUGE), but for now I will write about a topic nobody wants to discuss.


    Will KPop ever reach close to a world domination status again?


    I seriously doubt it.


    Sure , sales of KPop acts have exploded in this year. How long will it last? I give 3 years. The whole edifice was built because of BTS, and none of the newer acts have been able to establish themselves firmly. Which is why I had said a few times that BTS last for at least 2 more years and IU, who always undermined KPop whenever she could, sent away to some filming expedition for 2 years as well.


    Arguments for a lasting BTS popularity are meaningless. They could remain quite powerful after 2025. But will they be so domineering in the world like 2020-22? I doubt it. It is like a star player who had the best years, and after that something calls aging takes over and the player's position is taken by someone younger and fresher. I agree with bbgc that 2025 might see a flash of interest on BTS but after that it will probably not be able to exercise such dominance to the world.


    Ditto to all these 4th Gen acts, vying for world attention. Virtually all of them have foreign members(including Stray Kids with 2 Australians - no one even knows how their military services will be forced. I doubt Christopher and Felix will ever see a day in a K-O-R-E-A-N training camp), so none of their successes will be exclusively K-O-R-E-A-N. With K-O-R-E-A's declining birth rate, this trend will only exacerbate.


    Itzy will probably be the final group from a major company to include no foreign members.


    So no 4th Gen success will be entirely K-O-R-E-A-N and will reflect some influence from their foreign members, who often tend to be the members getting the most attention.


    The game has changed, and I don't see KPop ever getting world domination. It will settle for some share of the pipe, but not with an exclusive stranglehold over the world's pop culture.

  • Well to clarify,

    bbgc - is open minded about BTS after 2025.


    And to add a question, was BTS dominating the world in 2020-2022?

    I don't follow Western music much and kind of assumed they were.


    But then recently checked this and BTS were missing.


    Not in this list either

    List of best-selling music artists - Wikipedia

    Even considering years active, for example Post Malone also started 2013 and is on the list.


    So BTS definitely was the most successful act to come out of S.Korea.

    But I don't think they or by extension Kpop achieved world domination.


    But you do you, exaggerate and spin to push your narrative.

  • World domination is a bit much

    i see your point

    but

    Music is all personal taste

    you cant get 100% of the world to love Kpop cause then there would be no variety

    thats why i loved Kpop cause i loved the variety under 1 genre that it had compared to western artists (Specifically America) sounding like the same thing and just get tiring after a few listens


    Music should be loved by many

    and should always be diverse :lover3:

    thats what makes it unique :lover4:

  • Given the success of the two US concerts of BTS, this year's las vegas concert the highest earning concert of 2022 over the world, it would have easily topped #1 if Mr. Bang didn't leave BTS in K-O-R-E-A.


    Returning home after the Dec tour in Los Angeles was Bang's greatest blunder. A world historical blunder.

  • raise your hand if you give no fucks about kpop's overall success

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  • It did cover the entire globe and BTS did overpower everyone else



    BTS 164 awards

    the runner up, The Weeknd, 82 awards

    IU , 46 awards, all from Korea


    The original site which had these figures are gone, but assuming BTS won as many awards as IU from K-O-R-E-A, it won 118 non-Korean awards, 44% more than the Weeknd.


    If it is not domination I don't know what it is.


    It made stirs all around the world, and .. Bang and K-O-R-E-A blew it.

  • About 1% of the world speaks Korean, Kpop will never dominate like that. For Kpop to be as big as it is, is already insane.

    Yes, the truth is harsh, but it is time for KPop fans to realize the sad fact. It will have some portion in the world's psyche, but not dominant.

  • Awards are a poor metric to assess these things.


    Sales comes first and I am surprised that BTS did not top the global sales in any of the years - albums/concerts etc.,


    So your whole premise is flawed, when they did not dominate the world in the first place, why wonder about if they will dominate when they return.


    They are simply the most successful act coming out of Korea, but not world dominant on hard data. Billboard and other soft data are transient. What matters is the money.


    That as others have pointed out, is simply impossible for a non-English act.


    So whatever BTS achieved is impressive given that they are non-English act, but World domination etc., is hyperbole.

    Edited once, last by bbgc ().

  • That list of best selling artists on Wiki isn’t accurate if you take into context. A lot of them were active before streaming and physical sales in the millions were common. Then you have artists that are currently active whose sales are mostly streaming equivalent sales and radio play/streaming playlisting inflate the numbers by a huge margin. The GP don’t control radio play or streaming playlists. BTS still outsells these current artists in physicals. Regardless of bulk buying, physical sales are far more organic than SEA sales because it is still fans buying not a record label doing back door deals.

  • That list of best selling artists on Wiki isn’t accurate if you take into context. A lot of them were active before streaming and physical sales in the millions were common. Then you have artists that are currently active whose sales are mostly streaming equivalent sales and radio play/streaming playlisting inflate the numbers by a huge margin. The GP don’t control radio play or streaming playlists. BTS still outsells these current artists in physicals. Regardless of bulk buying, physical sales are far more organic than SEA sales because it is still fans buying not a record label doing back door deals.

    That's why I explicitly mentioned Post Malone, who also started his career in 2013 and he has made the list of best sellers.


    I am not disparaging BTS, but the fact is it is impossible at present times for any Non-English act to dominate the world, which is the assertion OP is making.


    You can give many reasons, most will be valid too, but end of the day, the outcome alone matters - money.

  • That's why I explicitly mentioned Post Malone, who also started his career in 2013 and he has made the list of best sellers.


    I am not disparaging BTS, but the fact is it is impossible at present times for any Non-English act to dominate the world, which is the assertion OP is making.


    You can give many reasons, most will be valid too, but end of the day, the outcome alone matters - money.

    Post Malone is one of the people I’m talking about. His sales are mostly SEA, not physicals. His physical sales are weak but he gets great radio play and playlisting. Billions of streams translate to millions of SEA that no fan spent real money on. Physicals still trump streams when it comes to artists getting paid. BTS convinced more western fans to spend their money on physical albums than any western artist, even the ones on that wiki list. Let’s not even talk about merch and touring because BTS beats current artists on those criteria also. Non fans will never understand just how big BTS really are and they would be bigger if they had better management. I will say BTS don’t dominate WW but that is because HYBE wastes their momentum and don’t know how to take advantage of opportunities. I hoped Scooter would help with that but Scooter only cares about his artists and HYBE is wasting Scooter’s connections and expertise.

  • Post Malone is one of the people I’m talking about. His sales are mostly SEA, not physicals. His physical sales are weak but he gets great radio play and playlisting. Billions of streams translate to millions of SEA that no fan spent real money on. Physicals still trump streams when it comes to artists getting paid. BTS convinced more western fans to spend their money on physical albums than any western artist, even the ones on that wiki list. Let’s not even talk about merch and touring because BTS beats current artists on those criteria also. Non fans will never understand just how big BTS really are and they would be bigger if they had better management. I will say BTS don’t dominate WW but that is because HYBE wastes their momentum and don’t know how to take advantage of opportunities. I hoped Scooter would help with that but Scooter only cares about his artists and HYBE is wasting Scooter’s connections and expertise.

    You are giving "reasons"


    I am not saying those are wrong or right, but that they do not matter. Neither is accusing Hybe.


    The final outcome is that BTS is not among the topmost selling artists among their peers in the world.


    Nor does data care whether you are fan or nonfan.

    As simple as that.


    I too was surprised, because I assumed BTS would be in the toppers list..

  • BTS' will most likely enter the TOP 15 or even the top 10 highest grossing tour of all time if they have a proper tour before they enlist. Sadly, they didn't tour. But, I bet that they will enter that list once they do a proper World Tour after accomplishing their military lol.


    IDK about wiki, but it was most likely not updated. BTS has crossed the 100M threshold and is actually at 110M sales across all units.


    forum.allkpop.com/suite/attachment/249510/


    CSPC: The best selling artists of all-time as of 2021
    The CSPC list is quite simply the most accurate, up to date list of best selling artists of all-time available online. Click and enjoy!
    chartmasters.org


    BTS is also leading this 2020`s decade being the Best Selling Artists. Them topping the IFPI for two years is a hard fact.


    IMG_20221027_091145.jpg


    IMG_20221027_091220.jpg



    And soon, BTS will surpass Eminem & Post Malone on Spotify most streamed artists.


    IMG_20221027_091112.jpg

  • Well hope it happens.


    And if Army think the Wiki is wrong, they should get it updated.


    Even if they were top 15, top 10, unless they were #1, at least for 3-4 years, the assertion that they dominated the world, is rather an exaggeration,


    They are one of the top acts in this world and definitely the most successful to come out of Korea.


    The OP's theories of World domination is exaggerated.

  • *Kpoppies when their faves attend a fashion show* : wow. The relevance. Global it girl/boy. 100 other random superlatives



    *Same kpoppies when BTS literally wins ifpi global artist for 2 years in a row* : domination? What domination?

  • Well, everyone can edit on Wiki as long as they have an account there.


    It's like you don't know WhyKnock superlatives 😅 Also, I find it quite impossible to be number 1 in every metrics when a bunch of these artists are decades older, when they started their career in the 60's or something. It's also hard to gauge the analytics as there are different rules, changes in market in every generation. But, it's still amazing how BTS is among these top acts that once a big impact in the global stage (and still have). Despite, BTS only starting their 'domination' 9 yrs ago (as to quote WhyKnock) lol.


    It's still a bittersweet that BTS were not given a chance like these artists to tour around the world during their peak. Well, I'm sure BTS will do great in touring after the enlistment.

  • *Kpoppies when their faves attend a fashion show* : wow. The relevance. Global it girl/boy. 100 other random superlatives



    *Same kpoppies when BTS literally wins ifpi global artist for 2 years in a row* : domination? What domination?

    And we can only shake our heads in amusement at the stupidity

  • Well, everyone can edit on Wiki as long as they have an account there.


    It's like you don't know WhyKnock superlatives 😅 Also, I find it quite impossible to be number 1 in every metrics when a bunch of these artists are decades older, when they started their career in the 60's or something. It's also hard to gauge the analytics as there are different rules, changes in market in every generation. But, it's still amazing how BTS is among these top acts that once a big impact in the global stage (and still have). Despite, BTS only starting their 'domination' 9 yrs ago (as to quote WhyKnock) lol.


    It's still a bittersweet that BTS were not given a chance like these artists to tour around the world during their peak. Well, I'm sure BTS will do great in touring after the enlistment.

    If Army is invested, then they should also become Wiki editors.


    Again even comparing with artists who debuted at the same time as BTS, they don't show up in the top ranks per concert and sales info.


    "Not given an chance" every artist will have that in their life history, some chance or other will always be denied to them.


    Anyway, we are rehashing the same points. Future will tell.

  • Again even comparing with artists who debuted at the same time as BTS, they don't show up in the top ranks per concert and sales info.


    "Not given an chance" every artist will have that in their life history, some chance or other will always be denied to them.


    Anyway, we are rehashing the same points. Future will tell.

    Debuted at the same time as BTS? Lol, it's like you're not checking the stats that were presented in here.


    Well yeah. FYI, the artists on the list didn't have to enlist in the military during their peak. So, that's a wrong assumption.

  • Debuted at the same time as BTS? Lol, it's like you're not checking the stats that were presented in here.


    Well yeah. FYI, the artists on the list didn't have to enlist in the military during their peak. So, that's a wrong assumption.

    BTS hasn't yet either. Their records so far is enough of a comparison.


    Of course you can join OP in his "If",

    If BTS didn't need to enlist, they will conquer the world.


    Like "denied a chance", the "If" can also be claimed by many an artist, if not enlistment, then something else.


    Fans can indulge in such ifs and buts, but data and results don't care.


    Every artist across the world has a different journey and different challenge, yet the results are all that matters.

  • BTS results are impressive and right there for anyone to see. The only people who don’t see it are people who are deliberately ignoring it with if, and, buts. Same thing you are arguing. BTS has the potential to dominate and now we will never know what could have been. SK will never have this opportunity again because BTS had to enlist at the peak of their career. Kpop will never dominate WW and neither will any Korean artist. The next big artist will come from the west, just like usual. If you think that HYBE did a great job managing BTS after they became big enough to compete with other worldwide acts, then you don’t know anything about the industry.

  • The only domination that matters is Mariah Carey world domination in the coming weeks


    Anticipate


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  • The only domination that matters is Mariah Carey world domination in the coming weeks


    Anticipate


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    sunyoul has offered to help

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  • sunyoul has offered to help

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    She's defrosting right now. Mariah Carey sunbaenim is coming for all our faves


    cover9.jpg

  • True :yesr:

  • The only domination that matters is Mariah Carey world domination in the coming weeks


    Anticipate


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    Yes. Incoming the 30M streams in a single day only for the undisputable X-MAS song of all time in the world.


    IU, BTS and every single artists in the planet should be scared at the person under my comment.

  • Yes. Incoming the 30M streams in a single day only for the undisputable X-MAS song of all time in the world.


    IU, BTS and every single artists in the planet should be scared at the person under my comment.

    She can literally just smile and the entire world bows down to her greatness


    Mariah Carey sunbaenim makes kpop look nugu

  • USA only occupies about 1.87% of the world's landmass and 4.5% of total pop and it dominates the world

    No different from BTS

    It did not have to occupy every single town of the world . If it did better than the runner up by a significant degree it was world domination.

  • BTS results are impressive and right there for anyone to see. The only people who don’t see it are people who are deliberately ignoring it with if, and, buts. Same thing you are arguing. BTS has the potential to dominate and now we will never know what could have been. SK will never have this opportunity again because BTS had to enlist at the peak of their career. Kpop will never dominate WW and neither will any Korean artist. The next big artist will come from the west, just like usual. If you think that HYBE did a great job managing BTS after they became big enough to compete with other worldwide acts, then you don’t know anything about the industry.

    "has the potential to dominant" NOT SAME as "dominated"..


    Rest is all fan feelings with the usual excuses/reasons, blaming the agency is a cliche in Kpop, yet without Hybe, the group wouldn't exist.


    This is about history, not counter-history or future predictions.


    But hey if they eventually do dominate, hit me up and I will join the celebrations.


    IMO, they have achieved the most a non-English act can in the present market and have set a new bar.

    That's a fantastic achievement, which need not be obscured by other false claims.

  • Best selling albums of the world

    Global Chart Weeks Countdown Albums


    Best selling albums of the world according to IFPI


    IFPI Global Charts - IFPI


    BTS’ MAP OF THE SOUL : 7 tops IFPI’s 2020 Global Album Sales Chart - IFPI
    Photo: Image of BTS receiving the IFPI Global Album Sales Award, and Global Album All Format Award (courtesy of Big Hit Entertainment) 11th March 2021 – IFPI,…
    www.ifpi.org


    Mots:7 did become the world's best selling album


    and if Mr. Bang released another album for BTS in 2019 (he didn't because of txt) and 2021 it would have taken the top positions in these years too


    2022 is different - Bang released an expensive package with 3 new songs


    But if Bang didn't play his card like a drunken gambler , BTS would have dominated in 2019,2020, 2021 and 2022 without anyone complaining

  • Post Malone is one of the people I’m talking about. His sales are mostly SEA, not physicals. His physical sales are weak but he gets great radio play and playlisting. Billions of streams translate to millions of SEA that no fan spent real money on. Physicals still trump streams when it comes to artists getting paid. BTS convinced more western fans to spend their money on physical albums than any western artist, even the ones on that wiki list. Let’s not even talk about merch and touring because BTS beats current artists on those criteria also. Non fans will never understand just how big BTS really are and they would be bigger if they had better management. I will say BTS don’t dominate WW but that is because HYBE wastes their momentum and don’t know how to take advantage of opportunities. I hoped Scooter would help with that but Scooter only cares about his artists and HYBE is wasting Scooter’s connections and expertise.

    Bang did play his cards in a very irrational way


    He only used Scooter to reach into USA


    If RM had run BTS I am sure the story would have been very diffferent.

  • Well, everyone can edit on Wiki as long as they have an account there.


    It's like you don't know WhyKnock superlatives 😅 Also, I find it quite impossible to be number 1 in every metrics when a bunch of these artists are decades older, when they started their career in the 60's or something. It's also hard to gauge the analytics as there are different rules, changes in market in every generation. But, it's still amazing how BTS is among these top acts that once a big impact in the global stage (and still have). Despite, BTS only starting their 'domination' 9 yrs ago (as to quote WhyKnock) lol.


    It's still a bittersweet that BTS were not given a chance like these artists to tour around the world during their peak. Well, I'm sure BTS will do great in touring after the enlistment.

    The ranking systems in many sports reflect past histories which often make it dated


    There is no way to compete singers who are there forever. BTS did not break the aggregate digital records of Lee Jieun , who debuted 5 years before it, which is the ony blemish of its career about which nothing could be done because Lee Jieun released songs whenever she felt like while Bang only allowed BTS to release songs when his other groups were not promoting.


    But it cannot be denied that its domination lasted from around late 2019 to mid 2022, and would have lasted for quite a longer time if if Bang didn't get greedy and got K-O-R-E-A-N investment money so he could play billionaire for a year.

  • That's where the difference between an artist who is the boss of him/herself and an artist who is tied to another company comes out.

    2021 is a perfect example.


    BTS released 2 songs

    IU released 16 songs


    in 2021.


    BTS was owned by Mr. Bang, who used it to expand his other interests.


    IU, at that time, owned Edam Entertainment and could do whatever she felt like whenever she pleased.


    That probably decided BTS' fate in K-O-R-E-A, which led to a blow which I consider fatal.


    Having your destiny and not being subject to someone else's whim does count a lot. Which led to Taylor Swift's renaissance this year as well since she is her own boss.

  • BTS results are impressive and right there for anyone to see. The only people who don’t see it are people who are deliberately ignoring it with if, and, buts. Same thing you are arguing. BTS has the potential to dominate and now we will never know what could have been. SK will never have this opportunity again because BTS had to enlist at the peak of their career. Kpop will never dominate WW and neither will any Korean artist. The next big artist will come from the west, just like usual. If you think that HYBE did a great job managing BTS after they became big enough to compete with other worldwide acts, then you don’t know anything about the industry.


    Yes, BTS did dominate and the South Korean incels basically shot their own feet.


    SK will never have the chance to dominate world pop again, which is a sure thing.


    Hybe (read: Hitman Bang Sihyuk) badly mismanaged BTS. Badly. Instead of launching all these projects which will eventually lead to nothing, he should have solidify BTS's position in the world, running it to everywhere in the globe so there would be no challenges.


    Bang himself promoted Kid Laroi from Australia, who will probably be in the top 2 of the most streamed artist of the year. Frankly speaking if the members did not re-sign with Big Hit in 2018 and instead of formed their own destiny, their story would have been very different.

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