Posts by onwards

Quote from selfmate

my friend I see a lot of people either attacking you or at the very least side-eyeing you but without giving you some sort of answers

I will preface it by saying I'm pretty sure other members of the forum who are African America can give more context to this but I'll add what I know from my personal experience

there is so much nuance and background and history to black culture in America that there is no change in hell I could explain anything in detail on a kpop forum - from the times of slavery to modern system racism African Americans have faced a lot of hardship and adversity in the perseverance of their identity.

And thus SOME African Americans feel like there are certain aspects of themselves that is very unique to them and them only. For example (this is not a definitive list and not all African Americans would agree but generally from what I've seen)

Hairstyling - very unique ways of caring for their hair and the use of certain braids

Speech - a few years ago I learned what AAVE is and the way certain African Americans speak that is not perfectly "standard English" for example I have an African American friend who says aks instead of ask as an example

Clothing - for example the durag which I learned was used for hair protection ( I learned this during the Lisa durag vs bandana issue lol)

Music - Hip hop and RnB are deep rooted in black culture and SOME (lots??) of African Americans feel that these are unique to African Americans and their history

Again this is not an exhaustive list and there may be much much more

the difference between that and say Chinese culture (which I am Chinese) again from my own experience is that foreign entities have not (especially in mass) tried to use Chinese culture for their own gains to the detriment of said Chinese. and thus the Chinese were happy when other foreign entities used aspects of Chinese culture

for African Americans though it is often the adoption or use of their culture TO THEIR DETRIMENT historically and often to the benefit of the foreigner or outsider and thus to African Americans it seems that such use of aspects of their culture strips away something that is unique to them and their identity

Again I am but an outsider to all this and the more knowledgeable members of the forum especially those from the US can provide more insight into this issue.

to all the people having a go at girlgroupstan21 I say - try to enlighten them on the issues surrounding this very complex issue instead of going after them so that in the future they can (start) to understand the issues a bit better

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Your far nicer than me to actually explain tbh. Just to add, the history of things being stolen from African Americans to their detriment is a long, long history. If we just look at music, theres the famous examples of rock and roll, blues, jazz and country. The entire reason Elvis was so popular is he was basically doing what black singers of the time were doing, but with a white face. Meanwhile alot of the black singers who pioneered the genres or lead to it growing in popularity are hidden away in favour of more palatable faces.

Reason why alot of us don't engage in explaining is because we are tired and 99% of the time its the same conversation. We explain, they refuse to accept/wonder why we must feel that way when they wouldn't if they were in our position, we explain more, they say 'well they must want people to say it why else is it in music?/thats so dumb/what makes black culture so different to any others'. I don't think people realise how mentally exhausting it is to have to constantly justify your existence and explain why black people aren't a monolith. Its another level of microaggression that honestly, I try not to engage with for my own mental health.

Quote from JesseAlex

OMG, she came out of hibernation for a brief moment!

I wonder when she'll drop an album......

Honestly I see her pulling a Rihanna and focusing on her business for a couple years.... its been about a year since she launched it and shes only dropped two releases for the brand... so even that is on a YG release schedule

Quote from ThePhantomThief

I was reading an article (here) just before from December 2022 about how its STILL a problem at Australian Concerts and music festivals with people like literally YELLING the word when it comes up in a song.

Being so cool and edgy...

Of course, Australia only finally changed the name of a number of racist places (N-Word Point, N-word Something) in 2018, theres 250+ places in Australia still called Chinaman Something and my state alone still has 40+ places with other racist names. And fuckwits have meltdowns when the places names are changed...

We still have Australians pitch an absolute fit because a cheese brand was renamed from C*** (think last four letters of Racoon) to Cheer, and apparently it was the worst thing that ever happened according to some mouth breathers here.

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Jesus Christ, I was considering moving to Australia for a couple years once I finished university to avoid the student debt (lol UK), glad I didn't seeing this. I dont think I could cope with seeing stuff like that or people getting mad about the removal of slurs from major brand. I mean, I burst into tears seeing the BF episode of running man with no warning and haven't watched the show since.

Quote from monalisalove

I saw a lot talking about Jisoo so I just said the truth

It's delusional this whole IF weak attempt non fans do to dismiss Jisoo and overpraise Miyeon when she had chances and nothing happened

Honestly, ngl, I was gobsmacked seeing Jisoo in those videos', stiffsoo where?? I didn't see her.

I can't tell if it is because she was in a larger group so it hid it more, or because she was just a better dancer but its wild seeing that next her post debut and especially since 2020. I need her to work with whoever was training her back then because we are missing out.

About the Jisoo Miyeon thing, YG made the right choice. Miyeon is a better performer in all aspects but Jisoo is overall a better idol and a better fit for what BP needed. Jisoo is great in interviews and variety, the best at interacting with fans, literally the funniest member and the main reason why I watched any of their behind the scenes stuff. Miyeon isn't as shy and far more open now, but she grew into that and was given the time to do so thanks to the amount of members in idle. She wouldn't have had that in BP.

Quote from David33

You mean, Americans, or people in general? Tbf both true.

Lord save us from racist idiots trying to excuse themselves because they aren't 100% white so ofcourse they get a green card to be as offensive as they like.

African Americans were literally kidnapped from all over continent of Africa, enslaved, renamed, treated as animals and punished anytime they tried to use their actual names, language or express their culture. It is not the same and its beyond insulting that your trying to act like it is. When we say 'they don't know where they are from' we mean of the current 54 recognised countries 90% of the black american population have no idea where their ancestors are from because little to no records were kept and so many died and were forced to hide such history. We use the phrase African American because by and large all we know is majority were taken from the African continent and they were forced to have so little connection with their ancestry they built their own in America.

The phrase African American is literally only used in America because they are American.

The reason people are so against the n word vs other slurs is whilst they were all used against a population, the intention was different. Other slurs were used to marginalise meanwhile the n word was legally recognised a race separate from human. Same way you'd call a horse a horse.

Only reason it was used in music was as reclamation towards the community, just because our music got popular outside of our sphere doesn't mean everyone gets an automatic green card because they like a song.

Quote from Yama-Chan

When I say have suffered enough and still have PTSD from the blackface scandal of 2017 (IYKYK), and went THROUGH it...I can't go through this again.

Please not my favs again. Please not my favs.

And here I was thinking it'd be unreleased research analysing who was a threat, CB's etc.... dammit, I do not need to go back to those times on a Monday morning.

If they somehow dig up Solar as Cleopatra or a beggar as evidence for BF imma need to fly to korea to fight somebody

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

LMAOOOO20250330_173836.jpg

20250330_173838.jpg

I know this ain't the time or the place but I'm low key proud RBW is listed and somehow above Cube and Hybe for TB of data. Like they were really going in to collect info on Mamamoo huh?

Also, 228TB on JYP? HOW? How much of that is Twice? I neeeeeed to know

Meanwhile I'm questioning how we are already in 5th gen yet somehow newjeans is considered 4th gen?

At a certain point people are just agreeing that a new gen has started so they don't have to admit that their fave hasn't actually got any big achievement that they don't have a million arguable caveats for.

Quote from Tru-Multistan

'Cheer Up' feels like an odd comparison but maybe, idk, wasnt around at the time.

In any case, 'Magnetic' is huge overall. Based off the numbers I think its the biggest gg debut song ever? Definitely has quite a gap even on baemons biggest hit.

Cheer up is a terrible comparison. If you were around for when SK went crazy over Brave Girls and Rollin, its like saying Magnetic was like Rollin.

The numbers don't tell the whole story, lots of streams are added these days because of songs being used in shorts and tiktok, but those songs don't end up making the acts famous or even making the songs big, songs get pushed on shorts and tiktok as promotion so streams get added without any actual impact. Same way you can't claim everglow was ever a top GG for 3/4th gen because they had huge youtube views meanwhile they still haven't gotten their first paycheck, or that Loona was major competition for redvelvet huge because the 'stan loona' meme was all over the internet. If we are going for 5th gen, surely newjeans hits with attention and hype boy are further up there?

Interesting insight into how Hybe (and likely the industry) trains idols.

But the fact that MHJ was shocked gives me pause. She was in SM of all places for decades, what was Hybe doing that would shock a long time SM exec? Or did Hybe tell her they were very different with their trainees and she was shocked at how bad the lie was?

Quote from Varenka

Decent start and doubled Lisa's billboard sales with much less out-there promo. I have yet to buy my copy. Maybe today to get it to 85,001.

Jennie's rollout overall has been impressive, less promo overall but better placed for the path she is taking.

But also, what is going on with Lisa's billboard? How can it be half of Jennies? I thought their fandom sizes were pretty equal

Blop. Song isn't bad, just generic.

Her voice doesn't sound like I'm used to, less character so it sounds even more generic. Maybe I haven't listened to enough Itzy songs but I'm used to her voice having an sharp almost scratchy quality but here, her voice is so smoothed out I can't tell if they added filters or if she was putting on that acerbic voice.

As for the video and dance, I can see what they were going for. Its very voguesque, problem is she doesn't have the attitude to pull it off which is why some of her poses look awkward. I can see someone like Chungha pulling this off though.

Well isn't this interesting. Ador was crying in court over spending 21b to make ador and debut newjeans saying the amount of money was unprecedented..... only for them to be the cheapest GG they've debuted. Can't make this stuff up. Hybe always going to find new ways to embarrass themselves

Quote from Hiakuryu

Frankly I'm so fucking confused right now, what the fuck does any of this have to do with a preliminary injunction? Like I simply don't understand Hybe/Ador's gameplan at this point.

Look, a preliminary injunction hearing is when the court at Hybe/Ador's request listens to an argument from Hybe/Ador and K&C why they should not let Newjeans advertise or engage in any musical activities until the court has had the hearing on the validity of the contract termination by Newjeans on the 29th of November.

So why are they bringing up all this shit? A far more effective arguement is.

"Dear Judge Lee/Park/Kim (I mean really the odds of one of those names being the judge is.. well... stupid high) we're asking for this preliminary injunction to be granted so that brands, advertisers, their representatives and the public at large can have certainty on who the management is right now. It is only fair to revert the situation to the status quo ante before the 29th as we strongly argue the legitimacy of Newjeans claims that they were correct in their termination of the contract. Reverting to the time before the 29th will bring no direct harm to the members or their careers as the court date is only X days away so any pause will be temporary at best until the trial where we believe the court will arrive at the correct decision."

I mean that's ALL THEY HAD TO DO... the other shit is for the actual court date where they determine whether the termination is legitimate or not. NONE of what Ador/Hybe/K&C are doing makes ANY FUCKING SENSE TO ME! ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

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Its a classic Hybe move. They've always done the same thing, whip fans into a frenzy push them into fighting their battles for them. They know its highly likely they will lose so their plan is to try and keep every other Hybe fandom on their side with this kind of nonsense. Its why they kept pumping out articles saying MHJ dragged BTS, blaming her for the disbandment of gfriend and saying how sad x member of x group is because of the whole issue. Its the fans money keeping the lights on, so they want to convince said fans NJZ are the evil ones not us so keep buying our merch from other groups.

Quote from Hiakuryu

1. Quoting from https://www.legal500.com/guide…nd-labour-law/?export-pdf

As you can see this discusses the issue wrt employees but as we know as Idols are not considered employees but contractors. From this I do not think the protections may strictly apply to Idols but the courts may decided that the principles still stand.

The most I personally would wish to say is "It depends... primarily on what's in the contract? Then on the day, the court, the judges mood... who the hell knows."

2. Is NJZ too close to the Newjeans IP?

I'd argue strongly it really really is too close. The connection and so on is staggeringly obvious and imo this is the best stick Ador and Hybe have to beat the girls with. I mean for gods sake it's just a contraction of Newjeans and replacing the S with a Z which happens in everyday language usage so so much both in Korean and English. I always felt this was a mistake. The IP for Newjeans has always belonged to Hybe and they will have to pay a very pretty penny to be able to use it.

Considering how acrimonious the relationship is... I just don't see Ador being willing to give it up at all. If I was the negotiator for Ador I'd make them bleed for it and then stick the knife in deeper. They're not getting it. Also tbh with how hardline the girls and their parents have been I'm not sure they would be willing to hand any kind of profit sharing over to Ador/Hybe either.

If cooler heads prevailed, Ador/Hybe really should just license it at a fair market rate to the girls, the brand value alone is worth so much in terms of future profits and being reasonable here would really add a nice profit bump to everyone involved. Sadly cooler heads don't seem to be prevailing and I can't really imagine either side giving an inch on the issue.

Ador/Hybe seem to be determined in their grudge match to me and frankly with so much acrimony I can only imagine the same being on the girls and their parents side too...

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Honestly with the IP they may yet win. Isn't there a law surrounding groups and their name/trademarks? I think according to the revised trademark laws all groups who debuted after 2014 where all members have left the company may retain their name. Its a pretty well supported thing since when Source got rejected for trying to trademark Gfriend after disbandment the court said the name was associated with the 6 member group, none of which were signed to Source anymore. If the contract is considered cancelled or the courts decide they don't need to go back but have to pay damages for breaking the contract, from that moment on Hybe can no longer make any new IP using the name Newjeans. I think there was also some amendment regarding IP, which meant if the group left the company, they can ask to buy all their IP at fair market value. If the company refuses, they can go to court and have the courts decide a fair price.

Can't find it right now but I remember everyone was talking about it for a while and it got even more buzz after Got7 got their IP from JYP.

Quote from selfmate

An interesting question would be:

regardless of which side "wins" if there can be a winner would you accept the decision either way?

Like if you were pro Hybe/ADOR/BSH and the court ultimately decide against them would you accept that decision?

Vice versa - if you were pro MHJ/NJZ and the court decided against them would you accept that decision?

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I mean, they can always appeal.

I honestly don't care who wins or looses what case, as long as in the end the NJZ members are happy and free of Hybe. If they lose and have to pay their way out, so be it. As long as they are free.

Quote from Hiakuryu

Great! You seem to know the timeline on this! So did hybe interfere in her brand ambassadorship or not? If Ador couldn't stop it... then that is quite damaging to their position... about protecting the artist.

LV and Hyein - Unclear but likely

Hybe makes it so negotiating and signing that kind of deal is handled by their internal brand department and each subsidiary has to pay a fee for this service. What we know is MHJ established a relationship with LV for Hyein. Hybe took advantage of that to get LV to sign LSF and lied to both Ador (by hiding it) and LV (making them think Ador agreed). MHJ found this out by contacting LV and comparing the contracts. This lead to Hybe giving thee months commission as apology and they later used her comparing the contracts as proof of her leaking internal documents when trying to oust her.

The confusing bit is the wording. From the translations I can't tell if Hyein had already signed the contract with LV and Hybe took advantage of the connection to get it done for LSF too without asking Ador's permission or if LV and Ador had decided on Hyein and were just waiting on the Hybe brand dept to negotiate and sign the contract but instead Hybe pushed LV to sign LSF and when MHJ realised after calling LV, they gave three months commission and negotiated/signed the contract for Hyein.

In the meantime, Hybe says they had connections with LV because J-Hope was already an LV ambassador and Sakura attended an LV fashion show which is why they wanted her. I would point out that Sakura was signed for LV Japan only, and I remember early on fearnots being furious because LV kinda made it clear with the photoshoots etc they only really wanted Sakura. Her solo stans took it as Hybe taking advantage of her and general fans were mad about the unfair treatment by LV and why Hybe didn't get them all solo deals.

Newjeans and Apple - YES

MHJ mentioned this in her press conference. Apple wanted to collab with Newjeans after seeing the OMG MV. MHJ/Ador sent the contract to be negotiated by the Hybe team as usual for them to do an Apple event. But instead, they changed the deal so it went to some other Hybe group telling MHJ theres no way Apple would want them thanks to the OMG MV. Apple refused, wanting only Newjeans which is why they got to do the event in 2023. Thats how the ETA MV happened, Apple proposed a collab for an MV and choreo so MHJ proposed ETA using the same director as OMG. BUT her proposing the ETA MV was used as an example of her trying to get outside investors involved when they kicked her out.

Either way the full story will be out by the end of these legal cases so strap in.

Quote from Hiakuryu

Yeah of course, I absolutely understand.

I'm just confused by the timeline more, the whole situation seems very convoluted and twisty.

Predebut these big companies will shop around their idols to brands and generally the industry so that when they debut and start promoting, they have work lined up like small acting roles, performance bookings, small TV or variety show appearances. These days its expanded into getting them brand deals or sponsorship like Nmixx with coke zero in their debut O.O, Itzy with their debut featuring Kia cars, Aespa becoming Givenchy ambassadors 3 months after debut or Karina joining Kai to endorse a Hyundai truck before she even debuted.

For the brands its a calculated risk. They want to sign them early to get the lowest endorsement fee in the hopes they blow up on debut and they get more than their money's worth.

Hyein was the most publicly known member from the get go. She had modelled since she was 8 and was a regular on a pretty famous YT channel pockettv. Out of everyone it makes the most sense that her deal was settled the earliest because of her experience yet her deal was one if the latest to be announced if memory serves.

Edit - there's a pretty famous airport photo of them soon after debut with each of them wearing the brand they ended up endorsing so contracts were deffo signed long before.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Someone said this on the mainsite I want to know y'alls opinion on this.

This seems like a reasonable take, no?

Not really. They signed the contract to allow their kids to debut with Hybe under the specific condition they would be the first group. When you decide to change business decisions there is normally a discussion between the parties, none of that happened, Hybe decided then ignored newjeans parents when they asked questions. If you sign a contract based on specific information and a specific belief only to later find out you were mislead or lied to, you can get out of that contract because its fraudulent misrepresentation.

I think some important context is being ignored. 99% of the industry don't debut groups of the same gender in the same year or even within two years. Even Hybe didn't want to do that. Companies will wait 3-5 years to debut the next group, which often means letting go of key trainees who will get 'too old' during that time, look too similar to other debuted idols or won't match the concept chosen specifically to avoid overlap with the last group you've debuted from your company.

They didn't want Hybe not to ever debut another group, but fact is, once Hybe decided to debut LSF instead they didn't plan on debuting newjeans and MHJ strong arming Hybe is the only reason they debuted. Newjeans went from debuting in a couple months to potentially never debuting. The later success of the group wouldn't matter if MHJ didn't force the debut there wouldn't be any success.

NJZ's legal team is likely trying to paint a picture. Don't forget, Hybe at this time was also pushing the members to drop out of school, they were refusing. So they were convincing 14-17 yr olds to drop out of school because they'd deffo debut within a couple months, even signing debut contracts with them, knowing they may not even debut. That is a wild thing for Hybe to do/have to admit to.

Quote from autumnleaf_soshi

you should take into account that they performed on the 27th evening at Joseon University, evening we are talking about here.

so if it follows your understanding of the situation then they finished the Joseon University performance that evening 27th and did the makeup and styling straight after their performance for Pusan University, without much of any time gap in between while waiting for 19+ hours to go on stage again?

music show is different due to special stage video filming and editing, that take several different performances to make up the final video we see on broadcast, that takes time, which is why they wake up early, but University performance is go up on stage when the time is up, one take kinda thing

Just to add time also makes the entire thing extra questionable. One university is in Busan the other is in Gwangju. From Joseon university (Gwanju) to Seoul is 3-4 hours (if traffic is nice). From Seoul to Pusan University (Busan) its at least 4 hours.

So they finished at Joseon the night of 27th, take the 4 hour trip back to Seoul to arrive before midnight on 27th to be on camera which means they'd need to set off before 8pm. From the performance videos they were on stage when it was already dark and in May in Korea the sun around 7:30 to 8pm, so if we are being generous, they go on stage exactly as the sun is setting, have their 36 minute set, then immediately leave for Seoul arriving before midnight to have their makeup done for their night performance at Pusan university.

Even if they needed to arrive for noon, they'd set off around 8am, so from midnight to 8am their makeup team is so busy they needed to get theirs done just before midnight so they'd be able to make their next performance where, again if we are generous, they go on stage around 7:30 to 8pm.