Meanwhile I'm questioning how we are already in 5th gen yet somehow newjeans is considered 4th gen?
At a certain point people are just agreeing that a new gen has started so they don't have to admit that their fave hasn't actually got any big achievement that they don't have a million arguable caveats for.
Cheer up is a terrible comparison. If you were around for when SK went crazy over Brave Girls and Rollin, its like saying Magnetic was like Rollin.
The numbers don't tell the whole story, lots of streams are added these days because of songs being used in shorts and tiktok, but those songs don't end up making the acts famous or even making the songs big, songs get pushed on shorts and tiktok as promotion so streams get added without any actual impact. Same way you can't claim everglow was ever a top GG for 3/4th gen because they had huge youtube views meanwhile they still haven't gotten their first paycheck, or that Loona was major competition for redvelvet huge because the 'stan loona' meme was all over the internet. If we are going for 5th gen, surely newjeans hits with attention and hype boy are further up there?
Interesting insight into how Hybe (and likely the industry) trains idols.
But the fact that MHJ was shocked gives me pause. She was in SM of all places for decades, what was Hybe doing that would shock a long time SM exec? Or did Hybe tell her they were very different with their trainees and she was shocked at how bad the lie was?
Decent start and doubled Lisa's billboard sales with much less out-there promo. I have yet to buy my copy. Maybe today to get it to 85,001.
Jennie's rollout overall has been impressive, less promo overall but better placed for the path she is taking.
But also, what is going on with Lisa's billboard? How can it be half of Jennies? I thought their fandom sizes were pretty equal
Blop. Song isn't bad, just generic.
Her voice doesn't sound like I'm used to, less character so it sounds even more generic. Maybe I haven't listened to enough Itzy songs but I'm used to her voice having an sharp almost scratchy quality but here, her voice is so smoothed out I can't tell if they added filters or if she was putting on that acerbic voice.
As for the video and dance, I can see what they were going for. Its very voguesque, problem is she doesn't have the attitude to pull it off which is why some of her poses look awkward. I can see someone like Chungha pulling this off though.
Well isn't this interesting. Ador was crying in court over spending 21b to make ador and debut newjeans saying the amount of money was unprecedented..... only for them to be the cheapest GG they've debuted. Can't make this stuff up. Hybe always going to find new ways to embarrass themselves 
Display MoreFrankly I'm so fucking confused right now, what the fuck does any of this have to do with a preliminary injunction? Like I simply don't understand Hybe/Ador's gameplan at this point.
Look, a preliminary injunction hearing is when the court at Hybe/Ador's request listens to an argument from Hybe/Ador and K&C why they should not let Newjeans advertise or engage in any musical activities until the court has had the hearing on the validity of the contract termination by Newjeans on the 29th of November.
So why are they bringing up all this shit? A far more effective arguement is.
"Dear Judge Lee/Park/Kim (I mean really the odds of one of those names being the judge is.. well... stupid high) we're asking for this preliminary injunction to be granted so that brands, advertisers, their representatives and the public at large can have certainty on who the management is right now. It is only fair to revert the situation to the status quo ante before the 29th as we strongly argue the legitimacy of Newjeans claims that they were correct in their termination of the contract. Reverting to the time before the 29th will bring no direct harm to the members or their careers as the court date is only X days away so any pause will be temporary at best until the trial where we believe the court will arrive at the correct decision."
I mean that's ALL THEY HAD TO DO... the other shit is for the actual court date where they determine whether the termination is legitimate or not. NONE of what Ador/Hybe/K&C are doing makes ANY FUCKING SENSE TO ME! ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!
Its a classic Hybe move. They've always done the same thing, whip fans into a frenzy push them into fighting their battles for them. They know its highly likely they will lose so their plan is to try and keep every other Hybe fandom on their side with this kind of nonsense. Its why they kept pumping out articles saying MHJ dragged BTS, blaming her for the disbandment of gfriend and saying how sad x member of x group is because of the whole issue. Its the fans money keeping the lights on, so they want to convince said fans NJZ are the evil ones not us so keep buying our merch from other groups.
Display More1. Quoting from https://www.legal500.com/guide…nd-labour-law/?export-pdf
As you can see this discusses the issue wrt employees but as we know as Idols are not considered employees but contractors. From this I do not think the protections may strictly apply to Idols but the courts may decided that the principles still stand.
The most I personally would wish to say is "It depends... primarily on what's in the contract? Then on the day, the court, the judges mood... who the hell knows."
2. Is NJZ too close to the Newjeans IP?
I'd argue strongly it really really is too close. The connection and so on is staggeringly obvious and imo this is the best stick Ador and Hybe have to beat the girls with. I mean for gods sake it's just a contraction of Newjeans and replacing the S with a Z which happens in everyday language usage so so much both in Korean and English. I always felt this was a mistake. The IP for Newjeans has always belonged to Hybe and they will have to pay a very pretty penny to be able to use it.
Considering how acrimonious the relationship is... I just don't see Ador being willing to give it up at all. If I was the negotiator for Ador I'd make them bleed for it and then stick the knife in deeper. They're not getting it. Also tbh with how hardline the girls and their parents have been I'm not sure they would be willing to hand any kind of profit sharing over to Ador/Hybe either.
If cooler heads prevailed, Ador/Hybe really should just license it at a fair market rate to the girls, the brand value alone is worth so much in terms of future profits and being reasonable here would really add a nice profit bump to everyone involved. Sadly cooler heads don't seem to be prevailing and I can't really imagine either side giving an inch on the issue.
Ador/Hybe seem to be determined in their grudge match to me and frankly with so much acrimony I can only imagine the same being on the girls and their parents side too...
Honestly with the IP they may yet win. Isn't there a law surrounding groups and their name/trademarks? I think according to the revised trademark laws all groups who debuted after 2014 where all members have left the company may retain their name. Its a pretty well supported thing since when Source got rejected for trying to trademark Gfriend after disbandment the court said the name was associated with the 6 member group, none of which were signed to Source anymore. If the contract is considered cancelled or the courts decide they don't need to go back but have to pay damages for breaking the contract, from that moment on Hybe can no longer make any new IP using the name Newjeans. I think there was also some amendment regarding IP, which meant if the group left the company, they can ask to buy all their IP at fair market value. If the company refuses, they can go to court and have the courts decide a fair price.
Can't find it right now but I remember everyone was talking about it for a while and it got even more buzz after Got7 got their IP from JYP.
Display MoreAn interesting question would be:
regardless of which side "wins" if there can be a winner would you accept the decision either way?
Like if you were pro Hybe/ADOR/BSH and the court ultimately decide against them would you accept that decision?
Vice versa - if you were pro MHJ/NJZ and the court decided against them would you accept that decision?
I mean, they can always appeal.
I honestly don't care who wins or looses what case, as long as in the end the NJZ members are happy and free of Hybe. If they lose and have to pay their way out, so be it. As long as they are free.
LV and Hyein - Unclear but likely
Hybe makes it so negotiating and signing that kind of deal is handled by their internal brand department and each subsidiary has to pay a fee for this service. What we know is MHJ established a relationship with LV for Hyein. Hybe took advantage of that to get LV to sign LSF and lied to both Ador (by hiding it) and LV (making them think Ador agreed). MHJ found this out by contacting LV and comparing the contracts. This lead to Hybe giving thee months commission as apology and they later used her comparing the contracts as proof of her leaking internal documents when trying to oust her.
The confusing bit is the wording. From the translations I can't tell if Hyein had already signed the contract with LV and Hybe took advantage of the connection to get it done for LSF too without asking Ador's permission or if LV and Ador had decided on Hyein and were just waiting on the Hybe brand dept to negotiate and sign the contract but instead Hybe pushed LV to sign LSF and when MHJ realised after calling LV, they gave three months commission and negotiated/signed the contract for Hyein.
In the meantime, Hybe says they had connections with LV because J-Hope was already an LV ambassador and Sakura attended an LV fashion show which is why they wanted her. I would point out that Sakura was signed for LV Japan only, and I remember early on fearnots being furious because LV kinda made it clear with the photoshoots etc they only really wanted Sakura. Her solo stans took it as Hybe taking advantage of her and general fans were mad about the unfair treatment by LV and why Hybe didn't get them all solo deals.
Newjeans and Apple - YES
MHJ mentioned this in her press conference. Apple wanted to collab with Newjeans after seeing the OMG MV. MHJ/Ador sent the contract to be negotiated by the Hybe team as usual for them to do an Apple event. But instead, they changed the deal so it went to some other Hybe group telling MHJ theres no way Apple would want them thanks to the OMG MV. Apple refused, wanting only Newjeans which is why they got to do the event in 2023. Thats how the ETA MV happened, Apple proposed a collab for an MV and choreo so MHJ proposed ETA using the same director as OMG. BUT her proposing the ETA MV was used as an example of her trying to get outside investors involved when they kicked her out.
Either way the full story will be out by the end of these legal cases so strap in.
Yeah of course, I absolutely understand.
I'm just confused by the timeline more, the whole situation seems very convoluted and twisty.
Predebut these big companies will shop around their idols to brands and generally the industry so that when they debut and start promoting, they have work lined up like small acting roles, performance bookings, small TV or variety show appearances. These days its expanded into getting them brand deals or sponsorship like Nmixx with coke zero in their debut O.O, Itzy with their debut featuring Kia cars, Aespa becoming Givenchy ambassadors 3 months after debut or Karina joining Kai to endorse a Hyundai truck before she even debuted.
For the brands its a calculated risk. They want to sign them early to get the lowest endorsement fee in the hopes they blow up on debut and they get more than their money's worth.
Hyein was the most publicly known member from the get go. She had modelled since she was 8 and was a regular on a pretty famous YT channel pockettv. Out of everyone it makes the most sense that her deal was settled the earliest because of her experience yet her deal was one if the latest to be announced if memory serves.
Edit - there's a pretty famous airport photo of them soon after debut with each of them wearing the brand they ended up endorsing so contracts were deffo signed long before.
Someone said this on the mainsite I want to know y'alls opinion on this.
This seems like a reasonable take, no?
Not really. They signed the contract to allow their kids to debut with Hybe under the specific condition they would be the first group. When you decide to change business decisions there is normally a discussion between the parties, none of that happened, Hybe decided then ignored newjeans parents when they asked questions. If you sign a contract based on specific information and a specific belief only to later find out you were mislead or lied to, you can get out of that contract because its fraudulent misrepresentation.
I think some important context is being ignored. 99% of the industry don't debut groups of the same gender in the same year or even within two years. Even Hybe didn't want to do that. Companies will wait 3-5 years to debut the next group, which often means letting go of key trainees who will get 'too old' during that time, look too similar to other debuted idols or won't match the concept chosen specifically to avoid overlap with the last group you've debuted from your company.
They didn't want Hybe not to ever debut another group, but fact is, once Hybe decided to debut LSF instead they didn't plan on debuting newjeans and MHJ strong arming Hybe is the only reason they debuted. Newjeans went from debuting in a couple months to potentially never debuting. The later success of the group wouldn't matter if MHJ didn't force the debut there wouldn't be any success.
NJZ's legal team is likely trying to paint a picture. Don't forget, Hybe at this time was also pushing the members to drop out of school, they were refusing. So they were convincing 14-17 yr olds to drop out of school because they'd deffo debut within a couple months, even signing debut contracts with them, knowing they may not even debut. That is a wild thing for Hybe to do/have to admit to.
you should take into account that they performed on the 27th evening at Joseon University, evening we are talking about here.
so if it follows your understanding of the situation then they finished the Joseon University performance that evening 27th and did the makeup and styling straight after their performance for Pusan University, without much of any time gap in between
while waiting for 19+ hours to go on stage again?
music show is different due to special stage video filming and editing, that take several different performances to make up the final video we see on broadcast, that takes time, which is why they wake up early, but University performance is go up on stage when the time is up, one take kinda thing
Just to add time also makes the entire thing extra questionable. One university is in Busan the other is in Gwangju. From Joseon university (Gwanju) to Seoul is 3-4 hours (if traffic is nice). From Seoul to Pusan University (Busan) its at least 4 hours.
So they finished at Joseon the night of 27th, take the 4 hour trip back to Seoul to arrive before midnight on 27th to be on camera which means they'd need to set off before 8pm. From the performance videos they were on stage when it was already dark and in May in Korea the sun around 7:30 to 8pm, so if we are being generous, they go on stage exactly as the sun is setting, have their 36 minute set, then immediately leave for Seoul arriving before midnight to have their makeup done for their night performance at Pusan university.
Even if they needed to arrive for noon, they'd set off around 8am, so from midnight to 8am their makeup team is so busy they needed to get theirs done just before midnight so they'd be able to make their next performance where, again if we are generous, they go on stage around 7:30 to 8pm.
With regards to using their likenesses without their permission, well that is the crux of the issue isn't it. Where Ador says that they are still under contract with them, so you do raise a good point in that Newjeans having not taken any form of legal action in an attempt to stop Ador from using their likenesses could, and imo would likely be problematic to the judge. "In all this time you didn't try to stop them from using your faces on their materials/youtube channel/socials etc?" and so on...
I feel like they may have some leeway with this one. Them being able to even record this kind of behind the scenes content for a schedule with brands must have been agreed around the same time as the contract was signed, otherwise I can't see so many brands allowing it. If it was pre-agreed it could be taken as them finishing the signed deals as they did before. I do remember some scheduled content with a brand that was meant to be released through Ador getting cancelled but the members still working with the brand afterwards. I
Dude Kim and Chang are huge but it looks like they shoved the B team onto Ador OR imo way more likely Ador and K&C were so supremely arrogant in their position they keep on getting caught out.
You can imagine it can't you? "oh you don't have to worry about them! they're just little girtls."
Not taking them seriously is going to bite them in the ass.
Honestly doesn't matter if they shoved team A onto this. No matter how good the people you hire are, or how much you pay them, it all comes down to how willing the management team is to listen to their advice and I doubt Hybe is willing to listen.
I bet Hybe and Bang thought it wasn't necessary or that filing it closer to their comeback date would be some kind of power play. They likely thought NJZ would be forced back by Hanni's visa or through no work after Hybe tried to stop them working with their connections and didn't want to waste legal fee money having their legal team actually do their job. Deffo going to bite them on the ass.
many stars are extremely famous, beyonce for example, but the critics never use the pretext of being to famous to be unable to shine creativly
.
like DUH.
I mean, no. Not even a little bit. Did you not see the volume of people who keep claiming her dropping Cowboy Carter is because Morgan Wallen made country popular and mainstream in the US despite her having all three albums done during the pandemic? Or the amount of times she's been snubbed at the grammys despite literally having dropped genre shifting and hugely impactful albums like Renaissance, Lemonade and Beyonce and there literally being grammy judges who have gone on record saying they didn't vote for her because she is 'too famous and popular'. Lets be real, there is a limit when it comes to popularity and they always want people to stay in their lane.
But I also think another point about the 'too big to fail commercially, but also too big to succeed creatively.' thing is really fair and accurate in her situation. I read it as them saying many artists were able to develop creatively due to commercial failure or the lack of continuous success which allowed them to experiment and find themselves without the pressure to follow up the last success with a carbon copy.
Because she had success with her solo under YG her team just copied that knowing it would sell well and since her solo fanbase in BP also followed her for that sound, will they be receptive to her challenging herself beyond what they have come to expect from her? Thats unlikely. Success is intoxicating. When you are able to bring in a x amount of money in one genre with a specific sound and aesthetic, nobody wants you to change or allow you to develop beyond that (remember how hard IU had to fight to write her own stuff?) and there are plenty of examples, especially with western companies of management stifling further creative development because they've been successful with one sound.
Few can take the media and fan backlash and come out a strong success on the otherside. Fall out boy had an entire song MV about this (the takeover the breaks over). Remember how controversial it was when Taylor Swift went full pop and dropped the country? Many never leave their initial sound for this very reason and some only leave it when their success begins to decline but even that is a risk because they could end up abandoned by the fanbase they have left. When Beyonce first separated from her fathers control and decided to make her own company to make her own music, it was taken as a huge risk to her and many thought she'd fail. Not to mention the huge backlash when she dropped formation. Theres a reason SNL had a sketch called 'the day beyonce turned black'. When renaissance first dropped, huge swaths of her fanbase didn't like it and neither did the public but it was a critical smash as she fully reinvented herself, challenged herself creatively and changed genres. She was able to do it because she owns her own stuff and isn't signed to a label that can control what she can and can't release. Whilst Lisa is under her own company, we don't know the details of the RCA deal and how much input they have in what she releases.
Agreed, it's confusing. What I find weird they have Tate McRae on her label RCA and they aren't using her as a source of reference. Not saying for her to copy Tate but it's the path she needed to go. She's not a vocalist like Olivia Rodrigo and doesn't have the personality in her music like Sabrina, and that's okay. It's just confusing that they're not focusing on performance aspect of Lisa because that is how she won people over. Right now a big part of Tate's success is her performance and having good songs that allow her to do her thing.
I can't think of a song she released so far that would allow her to perform. There were chances in Rockstar to show choreography that she's known for her but they shied away from it. If I was in charge I would look at Tate, Ciara, Tinashe,, Janet,Britney, etc. A lot of the past and current popstars didn't shy away from incorporating dance into their artistry and received praised for it. Lisa needs to do that for her comeback because this is all salvageable but needs to go back to the drawing board and cool it on gigs like the Oscar performance
I kind of wonder about that. I feel like if they were under different agencies, they would have gone for the direct confrontation and tried to use means to lower Tates coverage to show off Lisa, but since she is with them, they had to go a different route. Tate is a rising name so she needs to build her image and support whilst Lisa already has her own fandom, following and industry support (which means they won't make as much money from her with the contract split) so they don't really need to build her up.
Its an interesting choice when its not like multiple artists with the same kind of selling points haven't promoted at the same time. I wonder how worried they were about the optics of favouritism and industry push if they were both in the same lane.
But lets also not forget, the moment they all left YG they were drowning in offers and opportunities, but never learnt how to be selective about them under YG. I wonder if she is doing this purposely because she wanted to show she had more going for her than dance? Maybe it has something to do with something YG said. Its not like he is known for being nice to his female idols.
I'd also point out, many have said for years that the kpop dance push and how thin they want their idols to be is incompatible with long careers. They simply don't have the physical strength to pull off some dance moves without injury or causing long term health issues (side note RIP to all idol joints especially knees). They really have three choices, keep doing the idol dances and she'll have to retire early, gain weight so she can keep dancing for a long time, or stay the same but severely limit dancing and go a different direction for her solo. Since they've gone for choice three, maybe they think some of her fans would not react well if she gained weight (and considering how kpop fans can be, maybe they have a point).
Honestly, it could be for a million reasons, either way it will be interesting to see if anything changes going forward.
The major issue Lisa will have with connecting with US audience is her concept. Her current style of being mainly a rapper rapping about money and how rich and bad she is. Is just not going to go over that well in the US market. She needs to make more relatable music and speak more about her experiences because there wasn't much connections to be had with her album. Lisa is a kind and interesting person and there's plenty of things she can sing about. I am not saying for her to make ballads but she can sing about her life experiences, love life, adapting to new environment, and a lot of other stuff that isn't about how rich and bad she is. Based on her songs so far all we know is she's rich and care about material things and I feel she's much deeper than that as a person. I think this is why there seems to be a lost connection with Lisa and people outside her fanbase
You really hit the nail on the head. I think her album lacking personality, especially her personality really made the issue worse. Western artists survive more on their personality and selling that their music is personal to them far more than idols do. The music just emphasised the issue which is why you've got articles with headlines like this from the guardian 'Lisa: Alter Ego review – a focus group-tested attempt at megastar success'.
Its wild to see them fumble her so badly despite all the resources and people with industry knowhow to hand. Her team don't know how to select resources to build her foundations or her image so are grabbing everything and not thinking of how it will impact or suit her. It's not even like they don't have references to draw from, theres Paula Abdul, JLo and to some extent even Britney, Janet and Boa. If they did it well enough, even the lyrics wouldn't be too big of an issue. I think they focused so much on making sure she could sing live as is expected of western acts, but forgot that we make exceptions when it comes to dance focused acts.
I'd say Aespa under LSM would count. But since they've basically ignored all the black mamba stuff now Orange Caramel got them beat.
Sidenote but is anyone else happy that Lizzy ended her hiatus and joined a new company? We are now one step closer to an Orange Caramel reunion/comeback 
Especially with shanghai romance going viral 
I used to pray for times like these
