That's insane?! Haven't even got a teaser yet!
I am so confused
This is making me so hungry
Soop season 2? (Seems early...)
Festa? (so far out tho')
McDonald's related? (doesn't sound like it, no McD's logo anywhere, butter isn't very McDonalds)
WHAT IS HAPPENING
Can't decide, my fave TxT songs are all over the discography, but the quality of Blue Hour is amazing? Way Home is the only one not on repeat for but that's bc I'm not into 90% of slow songs. But can't stop listening to their old releases, either
Basically so far the best album is always the last one they put out bc they keep glowing up
(also like I tried so hard to get into kpop through the 2nd gen and beginning of 3rd and no one can convince me it was somehow better on average than 4th gen. Nope not buying it not true doesn't fly)
They did amazing wow!!
I'm not saying that it has nothing to do with BTS. I'm saying that if OP didn't explicitly mention them, there isn't a need to bring them in just so that it can invite potential "whatever discussion" that OP wants.
By bringing them into this topic, you are just giving OP what he/she wants so yeah if that is what you want them do go on
Am not here to argue, already stated my opinion on the first page (without bringing in any particular group) objectively on what the issue is about
I mean you're not dumb, you're very much not dumb. I'm not going to talk to you like you're dumb.
Well, you've forced me to for a bit: When things are extremely evident and obvious, especially within a community such as kpop, it's no longer shade. Shade is subtle. When it's just out and out directly referring to something we all know about and has dominated a lot of conversations for the last 48 hours there's no need to mention specifics. We all know the specifics. The name is implied.
So, say, BTS signs two absolutely massive brand deals and announces them within a couple of days of each other, and it's all over the news and all kpop media and is constantly discussed on AKP and Twitter. So who else are they referring to? ARMY have been constantly insulted like this - note the 'miserable lives' part of the title - specifically for days? Like this is legit a straight out drag, and oc we're gonna step up to that.
Basically, I'm asking you to not gaslight us, Icy. which is exactly what the whole dumb 'omg this isn't about ARMY why are you here!!!' argument kpoppers have decided to tattoo on their foreheads whenever they drag us w/out using names does. It's stupid. It just makes ya'll look like nothing you say is genuine or real.
Drag shamelessly, fight openly, it's more fun & honest that way (of course, more chance of getting ripped to shreds, too, but that's the risk you take! )
This. The endorsements are not the end goal.
This is also why McDonalds was more hyped, because it will have a wider reach.
Yes! Exactly. The McDonald's deal and advertisements are going to be so widespread, even if we don't get a new song and it'll be older BTS music there will be so many new ppl who've only heard their name seeing Bangtan & experiencing them for the first time. It's really exciting!
It's super simple why we hype endorsements: deals like this get BTS more attention, a lot more, from people who might have dismissed them thus far. More attention means more fans. More fans means more success and recognition for BTS. This is what makes us ARMY.
This is all a big PR campaign and ARMY are their primary campaign managers. And it works, because all we and these endorsement deals have to do is pull GP into BTS' orbit and their music/artistry, stage genius and incredible personalities do the rest. it's the Bangtan Law of gravity. The being loud about it is part of the process.
The hot takes on capitalist greed from massive kpop fans is pretty entertaining, tho'
How did this even become a BTS thread who even mentioned BTS in the first place time to ctrl f
So... you're claiming that a thread about the grossness of hyping brand deals has nothing to do with BTS... after BTS signs two of the biggest (if not the biggest) kpop brand deals of all time in the same week? realllllly? Do go on.
*pokes head in* It's amazing! You're so good!
I don't think that's correct.
I think that image, more so than talent, is still very much a key factor in American pop music, only the narratives behind the image differ from K-pop.
In K-pop, visuals is part of the K-pop narrative and image ('goddesses!' 'handsomest man alive' etc), while in American pop music that's less part of the equation, and you have other things that form up the narratives behind the image:
- 'the homegrown artist who built himself up from scratch and rose to stardom' (even when his company engineered most of that image and is responsible for most of the things that fans credit the artist for)
- 'so genuine!' (even if most is a carefully constructed image to promote the artist as a brand)
- attitude/guts/grit/individualism => attitude in American pop artists is what visuals are in K-pop, both are a major drive and engine why fans flock towards the artists, but both also have little to do with talent.
To say image isn't a major or even main part of American pop scene (and often misinterpreted as 'talent') is a huge underestimation of it.
If anything, Americans as a whole are more image/brand focused than anywhere else on the world (even if they tell themselves they're the complete opposite).
Korean pop music is pretty varied and diverse on its own: if you check the annual Gaon top 200 chart, you'll see as much variety in music styles and genres as you see when you check the US Billboard top 200.
It's just that what's considered 'K-pop' to non-Koreans and K-pop fans is only a small segment of all the music that Korean pop music has to offer and that fills up the charts.
So what people are comparing is basically everything that's charting on American Top 100/200 charts versus a (very) small portion of what's charting on Korean Top 100/200 charts. Yeah, of course one will show more variety and diversity if that's how you compare.
Music taste is a very subjective thing. Personally, I find most of what's playing on US charts these days kinda 'meh' and unimpressive - and that's how I feel about it for quite some time now. While K-pop has kept surprising and impressing me time after time. 100 people, 100 different musical tastes.
The American pop music industry has forsaken groups in favor of solo artists. With that they've also discarded the benefits and advantages that groups can bring - in performances, in content, in music styles - above solo artists.
Groups of course have their own disadvantages that solo artists don't have (or have less).
And that's the whole thing: both music industries, American and K-pop, have their own styles and way of doing things, and along with it their own strengths and weaknesses.
Depending on what everyone's personal preferences are, they'll favor one or the other's strengths and trivialize or get pushed away by the weak points of K-pop or American pop music
It is about taste agreed, but there's that, and then there's where kpop is as an industry in the entertainment business world.
I don't like most kpop that much; my core genre is indie pop, side of dance and indie dance, melodic hip hop and rap, soft spot for great rock and a foundation in New Wave from my family. Kpop sounds pretty stale to me much of the time. The structures can be messy in my ears. The styles are often old. I don't think being stuffed with different sounds is the same as being diverse or complex, it's often just a pile of disjointed pieces. I'm using 'me' language because I understand many disagree, but I think music is the reason kpop isn't mainstreaming, and it's ultimately a scene that is based on cult of personalities. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't lead to musical validation.
Korea agrees, as you mention their top 100 is quite diverse, but they're not particularly into most kpop lately. Idol songs aren't doing well outside a couple of notable exceptions.
I agree on the soloist issue in the west, which covers all groups - I find it fascinating how rock for example still makes crazy money but the labels aren't investing in new bands. In the streaming age I think soloists are simply easier, and like you say performance is taking a hit. There's no Beyonce or even Gaga level performer in the current crop of stars. The biggest non-Drake rapper in the world is fire but he'd rather stay at home, hates travel and is considering retirement. Drake puts me to sleep. Stage chops isn't something the big labels cultivating any longer, and I think it's a huge reason BTS is thriving - a great performer is a great performer.
And I love classic girl groups through the decades - Destiny's Child, En Vogue, Motown, Little Mix, Salt n' pepa, TLC, but I don't find Kpop ggs a suitable replacement because they're too restrained in their presentation, the cheerleader dances and matching mega short skirts don't do it for me; they're not primarily for female fans and it shows. I genuinely don't see surprising things there, they're all still working very tightly within the same paradigm, feel old fashioned, and there's not a lot to pull in the global gp. Part of that's sex - korean ggs having so many 'girly' aspects over 'sexy woman' in 99% of the groups hinders them a lot there for a lot of ambivalent reasons.
I agree that kpop and western pop have different strengths and weaknesses, but kpop as a musical genre isn't even thriving in its home country, which is worrisome for the industry as a whole. The global music industry is doing better than ever.
Idk I'm just stream-of-thoughting at you and rambling, but my point is that taste and quality opinions aside kpop is still a niche interest and not taken seriously musically, so it's hard to do a real comparison bc as a whole it's not on the playing field yet.
This is all so fascinating - and it explains so much about a few things that have happened over the last year or so. HYBE really does have a roadmap.
But if they have to use connections to win a Grammy what's the point?
That mindset can be applied 100% to everything Grammys (and the academy awards. and the emmys, and the...) related; it's an industry awards show created by and run by big US label lawyers and specifically crafted to give 'prestige' to acts that make a lot of people lots of money. The big awards were always about connections, and they're insanely corrupt.
The point is that despite this, there's a lot of weight to the Grammys, and it would be really a final validation they could put on their trophy shelf. BTS know how broken and gross they are, Weverse wrote a whole article on it, but they also grew up hearing about the awards and admiring them, and it's something they want. I don't blame them, and it would be a big big deal in Korea.
Is it okay Publicly/in fan spaces? Depends on for whom, and why it's happening.
Unfortunately fan service invites it often, and take cultural differences into account and it's not surprising people talk about it a lot.
Also, art scenes tend to have a higher percentage of self-aware non-straights in them, often by a LOT, and especially in quite repressive countries like Korea. This is pretty universal, so everyone is aware it's super unlikely all our idols are straight. I believe there's a good amount of subtle signaling among idols, and you can't ask people to ignore that.
For LGBTQ+ plus fans, it can be really comforting to be able to discuss the idea their idols aren't straight without judgement and in an open atmosphere. It's fun and interesting and ideally creates an atmosphere where there's nothing wrong or bad about the idea these beautiful people are gay or bi etc.
BUT - for the idols themselves, living in Korea, especially for the majority who will end up in the famously terrible-to-LGBT ARMY? It's not great at all. It's even possibly dangerous.
Still treating it as some terrible sin to discuss it ignores how Idols do fan service, at times seem to invite speculation/show their allyship or pride, and that there is nothing wrong in a universal sense with them being gay and it brings comfort to fans to discuss.
In short: idk it's complicated af.
Do you have exact ways you'd like it to be done? Just curious
Hi - I do! I think kpop songs need to be more cohesive and make more 'sense', tell stories sonically like great pop does. To my ear they often seem like they are cobbled together based on other songs or the idea of 'what comes next' as opposed to what that particular songs needs to be good.
To be cynical about it, they just need to pay for current songs and producers. I actually think production is the bigger problem; there are often some great melodies and ideas in current kpop songs but that disjointed quality happens again and again. Random drops, dead-end choruses, weirdly unneeded shifts, no payoff, floating bridges, etc.
On the more current thing, sometimes the songs will use pieces of new sonic ideas but as a whole sound like EDM or Swedish pop from 8 years ago, for example. That's the money thing again - someone who's being truly, modern creative at a professional polish level is most likely expensive, or at least takes advanced A&R to find.
"Notice how even if you put "some" in the title they will take it personal and think the fact that some other user with 500 likes attacked first makes it okay... It fits with their victim and persecution thing I guess (everything is a response to the haters of our greek gods)."
You... don't see the irony here? 'how can they act like we're generalizing...' followed by a hardcore generalization?
People here are saying to look for the cause of this reaction but what context would make this not xenophobic exactly? What happened to mocking Newton 3rd law based arguments? Op isn't even generalising so would it kill you all to acknowledge that this shitty tweet getting over 20k likes is messed up and move on? All this deflection is not a good look. And if you want alkp's rage over the hate BTS get on twitter than simply bring awareness to it? Go ahead and make threads and expose every racist and xénophobe who's targeting them instead of complaining about others not doing it.
Anyway, if anyone is going to drag inkigayo for something they better make it about the cameramen being constantly on crack, instead of it being simply a Korean show which apparently makes it lowly.
A stretch at best.
It could be a reality show on American MTV2 and the same point would be made: the petty wing of kpop getting involved in and reveling in BTS not winning a grammy is a joke because that's the actual level they're still at. It being Korean isn't the point, that it's tiny potatoes and they need to get their faves at least one major international award (doesn't even need to be the US) is. But because these groups are Korean, the point of reference is as well.
Not a complicated concept.
Notice how even if you put "some" in the title they will take it personal and think the fact that some other user with 500 likes attacked first makes it okay... It fits with their victim and persecution thing I guess (everything is a response to the haters of our greek gods). Just last year a part of this fandom was bringing twitter drama of other fandoms with titles like "nctzens" on this same site btw and they had 0 problem with it. "Kpoppies must admit a part of their fandom is very toxic not like ours, we just defend ourselves" Cult behaviour to put it lightly.
Did 'call ARMY cultists: The new form of BoTS to try to paint them as evil goons' go out in this month's ARMY Obsession newsletter? I'm sensing a theme!
I enjoy the switch from "OMG how can ARMY read the 'some' and think it's all about them" to a bunch of hilariously dramatic generalizations about how a fandom of 30+ million people are all a bunch of self-victimizing weirdos. The logic fail is stunning but sorta impressive!
I love being the main character!
There's something eternally amusing watching a pretty mild kpop insult be turned into some Big Terrible Toxic slight.
It’s quite obvious that their tweet is in response to other Kpop stans who’s fave hasn’t accomplished or done anything of any significance trying to have a opinion or belittle BTS... stop being obtuse and trying to play victim.
No blink tweet like that would get 20k likes. And we get get viral positive tweets everyday with 100k+. Our fandom has bad apples but isn't a dehumanizing arrogant self-obsessed cult.
Cultish behavior is making a demonstrably untrue statement about how your large fandom is all angels (When there's substantial proof of the opposite) and that another (at least 2, 3 times as big) fandom is all evil arrogant self-obsessed crazies when there is ALSO much proof of the opposite.
All fandoms have their jerks and idiots. Ridiculous statements like this is what keeps much of kpop in a weird state of unreality.