...... half a decade ago.
Atp it's going back 10 full (or even 15 years) ago<edit: as in beef going back that long, not hating on debuts in 2010, end edit>! [I came late to SONEdom in 2018 tho I listened/watched Gee in 2009 from FYP/yahoo sg article about 9 weeks record no. 1 music show win in a row, then intermittent thru next 9 years. Full blown SONE since 2018. Bkscrolled some in 2018 and since.]
in a word, NO.
you seem to overlook the facts of 2020 - 2024.
aespa debuted to a receptive GP.
IVE debuted to a receptive GP.
NJ debuted to a receptive GP.
Except for aespa - IVE and NJ had no SM-antis, BP/YSH-antis, TW/JYPE-antis, BSH/Bighit-antis against them to bar them from reaching GP ears. aespa debut Black Mamba may or may not have been similar but from my pov Next Level did hit differently, all the way to now/2024 with Armegeddon/Supernova/Whiplash maybe.
ADOR wasn't really activated as a anti-BSH/Bighit at first as much as LSRFM/illit/whoever is next SoumuNGG/pledisNGG(maybe not this last tho) would be/will be. And as it is MHJ-antis who are against ADOR 1.0 april-end(?) 2024[whenever new CEO began tenure].
Supposing SM gave full control of SMNGG(2025) to MHJ(2025) do the staff have no free will? The various centers of SM have their own messes and MHJ has only shown she can control a certain sized staff(with its own messes as seen w/employee B n the exec/whatever post that guy had). Can she wield her management skills in SME even with full control? I think not, if past history shows-both with current SM mess and 2024 ADOR mess(staff wise only).
Also you seem to believe MHJ has a special sauce that worked for NJ (which certain ppl believe was also true of another grp called the top of the world, which didn't work for subsequent groups to the same extent or there'd be 4 [or more top of the world bgs from the acronym music company no. 1 in the world]). I withhold my final say on whether I believe MHJ has special sauce that works for her next gg(if any). As a MY im a barrel of subjectivity(non objective on MHJ/NJ).
Also you think there'd be no SM-antis X MHJ-antis working together against a MHJ X SMNGG? You sweet summer child, you. That is all for now. More if I think im up for it(or if I think it's worth saying ofc).
.....
Also nice to see everyone in SNSD is in their natural hair colour.
LOL that's not hyo's hair color, she's Korean.
I'm just here to ask important questions in 2025.
I am a late-to-SONE-dom in 2018 tho I knew/watched Gee MV in 2009, and ITNW and others in between.
From backscrolling in 2018 on, SNSD was already against 2NE1 & Kara (and Wonder Girls/Miss a/apink) earlier and by late 2014 seemed to be below their peak (of 2009 and however long any one considers after Oh, Hoot, Genie and the rest)
Sica is my ult, but still I think it's objectively The Boys, Run Devil Run and Catch Me if You Can that SM producers tried to expand em from cutesy/girly concepts to closer to 2NE1/Kara (hip hop/crush concept) but 930 reverted to before. Who knows if they had continued expanding/widening but I think gp/fans weren't interested as much even earlier. Only slightly maybe with RDR.
I don't do what ifs irl. SNSD hvnt faded away after so long whereas WG, miss A, secret, rainbow, fin.kl, ses and cjsh the grace are barely mentioned by anyone to be reunion now unlike their closest rival 2NE1/Kara(maybe others but I can't think of em rn)
What is the context for the clips you posted? Is this a performance special something? A certain show? What is Moving Voices?
it's a show in the vein of begin again(which starred taeyeon in 1/2 of season 3 with a bunch of others busking in europe[Berlin n Amsterdam for a few/1 day(s) each. Covid kinda put paid to overseas begin again so it pivoted to in Korea only busking, but the same producers made Moving Voices.not sure if it's also on jtbc as I only watched the subbed begin again episodes.
I can't/I won't blame the actors, they did their job acting what the script gave 'em; the story I felt was undercooked/side characters were either leftovers from waste basket from season 1 or new characters without as much depth as Saebyeok/sangwoo/il nam or many others from s1. Even byunghun, his brother's(in the show) n gihun seemed to be less developed than expected after 3 years waiting. I think the writer didn't have in mind a continuation/ending and just spun it out using whatever he didn't use up from season 1 and it was weaker cos of the time taken to write/develop s2.
SG S1 took 15 years to gestate and was so much stronger as a story and a series and a (almost) complete in itself show. If only Netflix had given squid game the faith/time it gave to stranger things, who knows what SG S2/S3 mighta been.(I hvnt watched Stranger Things after S1 or many others like Better call Saul or orange is the new black to the finish but 1 reason I was anticipating Squid Game S2 was it would end after S3 and the filming/writing was finished or completed before S2 release. Sadly I have to wait to see if SG S3 fumbles it's ending like Lost/BG reboot or sticks the landing. Maybe breaking bad finale(?) but I stopped after S1 and only picked up when the final season pt 2 or pt 1 was due/complete.)
Hope S3 is worth the 4 year(since S1) wait!
I watched kbs stage. Geez what a mess. To think they're the blackpink successor, just... embarrassing. The outfits looked like they were from a thrift shop. Them girls have no aura whatsoever. At least BP made up for their lack of vocal ability with their aura/ presence, but with bm it's not working. I believe YG just didn't have the funding to give them the blackpink make. They come off as a blander Gidle. Better looking but blander.
I luv yah, SeulgisAbs but calling out YG's BaeMon outfits by making a backhanded dig at BP's vocals is so 2010s akp rite?
I don't stan BaeMon but disrespecting BP's vocals like this, is this ur yearly akp visit to fulfil ur 2024 NY's resolution? I kid I kid, but iv liked u n ur persona since I first joined akp 1.5 in 2018/2019 n I don't rmbr u hating spewing outfit comments on literal teens/young woman in their early 20s before this(yes I may be a sweet summer child middle aged man who likes SNSD (since 2018/or 2009 depending how u count) but leave the YG discontent behind or at least choose ur target to aim at better than the bots in the megathread here. Just blame YGE without scattershot shooting at Baemon/BP pls. I expected this from others here but this thread/OP/mass nuking 15-19/22 yr old+BP+additional collateral damage at gidle's visuals/looks is a disappointment to me. Happy NY n 2025 to come anyways, SeulgisAbs.
No, even as a Rosie bias blink- I think GS was a viral song which hit like Macarena or Barbie Girl did in the gp's consciousness for their time. Or Spice Girls Wannable(as I remember when it). Altho those songs might be barely known to young uns now(except those who were just born when GS released n their elders played the song when they were kids) I think APT hasn't reached the non kpop gp(or the wide audience tat GS, Macarena, Barbie Girl or Spice Girls' Wannabe did in their day).
Pop culture is just too fractured now(or been so since [ur choice-mozart or Elvis debut]), Swifties/1Directioners wouldn't give the time of day to APT (I believe), nor would Beyoncers(idk wat to call her fandom) nor Beliebers, Ricky Martin fandom either. Just as a matter of loyalty to their own fandom/taste wise I think APT doesn't crossover to those I mentioned in this paragraph; whereas at least GS n previous viral songs which crossover success to English language(n SA/Euro lang) countries probably only had rock/rap/heavy metal fans n not neutrals who dint listen/did not admit liking GS, Macarena, SG's Wannabe. There's a lot of polarity in music listening audience I think in English language(n SA/Euro lang) countries which is less I think outside of there.
GS broke through as kpop wasn't then seen as invasive/divisive as it was after GS/baby shark heyday(I believe). Either becos of backlash against Korean songs success or GS in particular, APT hasn't made inroads into those I mentioned in previous paragraph(unless u think there's swifties/1Ders/others who liked/listened/gave a fair hearing to APT/kpop in general?)
Alternatively, BSH n MHJ are the IVF co parents of NJ with HYBE paying for everything including a surrogate(call this a fantasy/science fiction imagining OK?). BTS were cloned from unknown donors.
In the west custody of NJ would be either equal or shared or devolve to 1 party.
Do the western AKPers here think tat BSH/HYBE actions are grounds for Judgement to appoint MHJ custody? Or if an ironclad contract before NJ's birth was signed, HYBE shd be appointed custody? Even with the leaks of pre trainee videos? Or 3rd option, CSP(Child Protective Services) steps in and declares neither party is fit for custody and NJ file for adult emancipation, which is exactly wat seems to have happened most recently.
Does my (imaginary) scenario make any sense to anyone?(I have not watched OP's video)
ETA PS I may have watched too much western TV series/movies.
*Queen
Her nickname among SONEs is "King Taeyeon"!
This seems so facile, like you're asking them to adult up and just work for HYBE/ADOR 2.0 without complaining. Well, don't sign/train children to be idols before they are adults/18 years of age then. I don't stan NJ/MHJ/any HYBE idols. But I find Minji, Dani, Hanni (i dont include Haerin or Hyein only because i don't know enough about them, not cause i dont think they have agency too) to have agency ("meaning one realizes and uses their power to further their ends").
Whether you believe they have been gaslighted/brainwashed by [redacted] i still believe the 5 NJ members are acting as independent minds but in tandem with each other.
End of the day, I hope for all idols to have independence and agency for themselves. Further deponent sayeth not, rn.
LSM even got accused told off by his nephew or new management for embezzling excess charging of production fees through his production company but no consequences penalties as far as I can remember(maybe there was n I forgot) except the money spigot stopped flowing after he sold his shares/stepped down.
I guess it's ok when you're the founder/ex-CEO/big kaduna of the whole company but not when you're the subsidiary CEO. The things that are normalized in some companies when it's owned/controlled by men(I an male), as opposed when you're only the lowly subsidiary's CEO, LOL.
.....
But it seems with the help of Roseanne Park, OBE, a citizen of New Zealand, the coup de grace to polish off KPop appears to have occurred.
.....
Technically, Roseanne Park is "only" an MBE, a MEMBER and not an OBE, an OFFICER of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Sorry, i was stunned to read on Wikipedia, APT's release, she even had a grade in the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire - so i had to chime in to say this.
As for the rest, i think APT was a refreshing song that had nothing to do with any ongoing enlistments or drama in kpop circles; i think its just a contrast and a energetic banger(is that still what the kids say?)
Its just what came out when Rosé and Bruno got together to put out a song together, its not rocket science(while i do read random/or posts elsewhere on historical warfare, sometimes at least. On a kpop forum is not where i choose to read such unless its related to former President of South Korea maybe and how the opening up of draconism led to the rise of kpop: which i wish i could find the unfinished history of kpop threads posted before the re-furb of akp).
RBW is literally THE WORST and Laziest Kpop company EVER! They have the most talented artists, yet they don't do anything with them.
Mamamoo built their company, doesn't do much with them, just wasting their money. Purple Kiss never had a 1st day number like this. Hardly promote them. I don't even know if Oneus or Onewe are still active or not. Oh My Girl was one the biggest girl group in the 3rd gen, but since they bought WME they're flopping.
First time I even slightly agree with David33 (I'm stunned) but yeah I had high hopes after RBW bought WME(same as when Gfriend's agency was bought in 2019 but we all know how tat turned out, would OMG still be 7 if WME wasn't bought by RBW or would WME have just gone bankrupt/disbanded OMG-talk about worst case scenarios/double edged sword/between scylla and charybdis(read odyssey/Ulysses for Greek mythology ref).
Well, TIL Giuk is a soloist.
I would never let my little nephew and niece hear it. I know it would be another 'Baby Shark' and 'Super Shy' situation in my household. They can't stop singing those songs all day and night. I've regretted introducing those songs to them every day since. Those songs even break the fourth wall and invade my dreams with how many times I hear the kids singing them. Those little gremlins take over the TV just to blast the mv continuously and religiously several times a day.
I can already imagine hearing 'apeteu apeteu apeteu' 24/7 with them. So, I'm sorry Rosé, love you but no thanks
there's already (saw on my timeline) 2 toddlers dancing to APT in front of a huge ass TV screen in a family's living room(assumedly) but I dint save it.
I suggest u just wait it out till they become teenagers (my nephews watched dvds of Monsters Inc n I think Dinosaur or some other animation incessantly every time they came to my dad's, as youtube/netflix/disney+ wasn't a thing then. Abruptly they grew up, or just found other things to spend time on. Let the young enjoy their youth. It's our thing to bear to let them hv fun(luckily for me Monsters inc nor Dinosaur had earworm-y songs so take my comment with a barrelfull of salt LOL.
TT: Stay(if according some sites is TT)/Lovesick Girls distant 2nd after Stay(or 1st if Stay is b-side)
b-side: Stay(I'm a flopblink so i was gonna pick this as favorite TT, but I read the comments n I realised my failings/flopping), followed by DKWTD(is this also b-side during KTL?)
solo song: APT, followed by Gone/On the Ground
Display MoreBeing a musician isn't just about vocals, yes, that's what I said, multiple times, BUT we're talking about technique, not performance.
It's not like Taeyeon is all about technique, and she can't move the hearts of her audience like IU for example. So many people think Taeyeon is just a power-vocalist, not a performer, and that's 100% BS!
In my opinion, Seohyun was always better than Jessica. She's one of the most underrated SNSD member, yet she's probably the most talented musician as well. I follow her and Taeyeon more than any other member, so even tho she doesn't release songs, I still know how much she trains as a vocalist and as a pianist! Not to mention, she sings at her fan meets, as I showed you all above. Even the members said she's the most hardworking member, probably.
If we want to rank them without any bias, this would be my ranking:
Taeyeon, Seohyun, Jess, Tiffany, Sunny, Sooyoung. At least, in 2024!
Anyway, I think we talked about this long enough.
You keep contradicting yourself. You follow Taeyeon and Seohyun more than any other, whereas I follow as much as time/interest allows not just Jessica, but Sooyoung, Yuri, YoonA, and the others too. For example I think Taeyeon on Amazing Saturday has made her a better whatever you want to call her: singer/idol/celebrity/variety star(or starting with her on Begin Again Season 4; I kinda followed on SNS in real time whatever snippets were posted in July 2018, before the show aired in October or late 2018, not gonna chk air dates rn). Whereas Seohyun is still progressing as an actress/performer, I admit I hvnt taken the time to watch her fanmeets/other clips, I only watched her in Time and Private Lives and Hello Dracula. I liked her in Private Lives. I think if she were to fully focus on music I might still not be of the opinion she's a better singer than Jessica.As it is, she focuses on acting and and I think that's all I'll say about that.
Display MoreI have to disagree! I mean, technically you're right, BUT ONLY because she didn't get the chance to actually shine. It's hard to shine when you're part of a group with 9 members, and Kpop is basically all about Visuals, Centers, High Notes and Belting.
As a soloist, she 100% have that tho, that's why I miss her as a singer. Her 1st and only album proves what she can do, and that album was released in 2017. She's a fantastic actress, so she could do everything, but I'm not sure if she wants to. She's focusing on her piano lessons now.
She's kinda like Wheein in Mamamoo, the backbone of the group.
But I want this Seohyun back!
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Almost forgot when she covered Mamamoo's You're the best.🫠 Not everyone can cover Mamamoo.
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I think this post signifies whatever you posted earlier isn't unbiased, and your opinion on Jessica =/= Seohyun is just opinion. I think Jessica even while being a entrepeneur, author, restaurantier, singer, variety star in China is still a "better singer" currently than Seohyun who hasn't recorded or held much public performances since exiting SM. It's fair to say her acting career takes precedence but it does affect her abilities/skill level. If you want the last word after this, I'll try and stay out of this after saying: Jessica is still my queen.
At her Seoul stop, Tiffany only sung songs she released under SM and in the US. She didn't sing anything she has done in Korea without SM which I think is acceptable.
About music promotions, lately, like I told another user here, music shows are not the only way to promote music. Look at how D.O does it and how Taeyeon has done it for her last comebacks after INVU. Sooyoung is also busy promoting her album at every show she goes to before it even drops.
Ah I didn't know which songs she sang way back in 2019 in Seoul(I didn't think of finding the set list online then or now). I just checked(she sang a Korean remix of runaway in Seoul, I was very interested in Tiffany's US solo songs in 2019 -tho I didn't buy em, just listened on free Spotify. I couldn't find any Korean releases out of SM she did except the remixes-Runaway and Magnetic Moon.
In 2019/2020 I remain skeptical TSS and SM had any agreement or understanding that the members out of SM couldn't have music career in Korea then or later on. I lean more to the understanding that it takes 5 months to record/rehearse/release a song/single/EP in Korea. Sooyoung released Winter Breath in 2018 under Echo Global Group without any/much promotion.
I could believe that around 2022/2023 discussions leading to SNSD cb Forever1 SM might have insinuated that TSS shouldn't have any solo music projects to leapfrog on SNSD comeback, but I still think it unlikely SM cared enough to discourage TSS from having solo music projects in korea(ok not impossible or improbable, just not likely in my limited understanding) plus the 5 months of work that would be lost if any acting projects came their way is more likely the reason TSS or Yoona , maybe Yuri too arent currently pursuing solo music career in korea. I think IU separates her time spent acting and her solo music career, but she's IU-her fans are loyal enough that her comebacks and acting career dont suffer from when she focuses on 1 or the other. I loved her in Broker. Same for Sooyoung in her film roles iv watched.
Ig we'll maybe find out if TSS/Sunny cant have solo music careers in korea out of SM between now and 2027(since Yuri spoiled that SNSD next cb will be for 20th Anniv!)
Display MoreSo, opera singers don't have a real music career either? Not every singer releases albums. Like I said, be serious!
I NEVER said, Jess is not a singer, I said, she's not as good as she was, that's all! Like it or not, that's a fact!
Nothing else matters, because it doesn't matter who releases more music. We're talking about vocals.
I said, Tiffany is a better vocalist now than she was, thanks to her Musical roles, because it requires more technique than being a simple pop singer. I only said, Tiffany, and especially Seohyun is not far away from Jess now. Back in the days, she was better, but not now. And even she's better than them now, she's not much better. That was my point!
Who said I moved on? Maybe you're not a real SONE, but I am. Just because I think Tiffany and Seohyun is on the same level or closer to her, doesn't mean I'm biased, and I don't care about Jess. Stop putting word into my mouth!
I don't think you know more than anyone else, because you're not a vocal coach, and you don't live with Jess, so you only know her songs, that's all.
Vocals, as I wrote above ain't the be-all and end-all of musicians/singers, or else Sohyang or Taeyeon would be >>> IU. Connecting to your audience/fans matter too.
Also, Tiffany AND Seohyun BOTH overtook Jessica since 2014? I can't take you at face value when Seohyun hasn't been as active as Jessica since 2017/2018 with a burst of music activity in 2023, a whole year ago. You contradict yourself by arguing it both ways, either Tif >> Sica >> Seo according to your standard of vocal ability and maintaining/improving by practice/experience or as Malcolm Gladwell puts it 10,000 hours of work(even after you turn professional, I think you have to work at it constantly/consistently or it probably atrophies/deteriorates, which I fully admit Jessica was busy building up her business/her writing(I can admit she might have ghost-written portions of Shine oand/or Bright). Jessica still maintains her musical ability/practice/recording/performing for fans at concerts/large scale performances much more than Tiffany or Seohyun consistently from 2014-2024 or even you must admit from 2023-2024 or since Tiffany went on solo hiatus after 2019. I can fully admit my bias for Sica, but I was genuinely rooting for Tiffany's lips on lips and sad that even before 2020 she was faltering/not gaining ground in US. You also ignore jessica in China before her solo cb in 2024. For me it signifies Sica's constant expanding her boundaries(look Mandarin is not even her third main/tertiary language! It might be fourth after Japanese or equal-3rd since she hardly promotes/performs in japan while she was in coridel. I dont know everything/cant remember if she over extended herself to korea/taiwan/SEA/China PLUS Japan in last 10 years. Its understandable if she knew her limits and only covered the first 4 territories. And if i missed/forgot about her doing stuff in Japan. Phew, rant over for now.
Yeongwonhee Sonyeo Shidae(or however its spelt)
Display MoreMembers who leave SM can't have music careers in Korea.
Tiffany only did music while in the US, when she went back to Korea, she stopped and started acting in dramas and musicals.
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Which means, one of the terms in the contracts with SM is that they can't have solo music careers in Korea if they are to remain Snsd which is sad.
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Tiffany's first album did well, another Korean comeback would have done better with good promotions. They probably aren't even allowed to promote in Korea.
Tiffany had a stop in Seoul both for her Lips on Lips tour in March 2019 and her Open Hearts Eve tour in August 2019. So unless SM is only banning Korean song promos, it wasn't the case in 2019. SM theoretically could have told her to cut it out or no SNSD reunion in 2023 for the 1th anniversary but idk if they were thinking so far ahead, LOL.
For Seohyun, Sooyoung n Sunny- recently its been revealed a comeback in kpop typically takes 5 months to prepare(n costs $$$/₩₩₩ in large amounts to promote on music shows, so I think Seohyun n Sooyoung either their company didn't want to spend on promos or they couldn't take time off from acting offers to carve out time to record/write/sing a mini album nor a full album). Yuri in 2018 debuted solo but I think that was around the time Oh!GG debuted(or just after), so she wasn't acting in any projects while she recorded/sang/promoted(?)
1 exception(but not for many years)
Also Magnetic Moon was during Tiffany in Korea era(arguably gave up on US due to lack of traction?)
I'm curious abt how this relates to SHINee, Baek n the others (non gg) who left SM but remain in the group(?) Is SHINee, EXO on inactive status after Taemin, Baek out of SM for solo activities?
I basically believe in the "performer vs technician" trope as pertains to Performer Jessica vs Technician Taeyeon, at least at the beginning of their career/training. Taeyeon never seemed to catch the gp's attention from start - mostly...
Display MoreNo offense, but how can you say Tiffany gave up on her Music career when she's a Musical Actress? That's music as well! Or do you think releasing Pop albums is the only thing we can call a music career?
I love Jess, but without any bias, her latest album was average at best.
Also, I wouldn't call "fan meets" a real tour! I mean, maybe it's my fault, but I couldn't find any info about her tour. The only thing I find is like 2 or 3 Asian cities, and that's all.
Let's be real, okay? Tiffany's main focus is her acting, and musicals. While Jessica's focus is being a company CEO and sometimes releasing music. That's hardly a full-time music career. And we're not even talking about that. We're talking about the fact that she's not as good as she was years ago, but Tiffany is better now, because Musicals requires more technique than being a pop singer.
Delurking: I started stanning SNSD in 2018, and Jessica is my bias(while I did know of Gee in 2009, I mostly slept on kpop in between and earlier - with some pop ins during but never stuck around and missed out).
To me, after re-dipping into kpop/SNSD in 2018 - I slowly learnt the names of members, and all that other typical kpop stans boring journey.
I just want to add that I found something on tvtropes that I believe describes the debate here: Technician vs Performer. Jessica (my ultimate bias) seems quintessential performer, while Taeyeon fits the Technician trope. Tiffany might be a merged Technician/Performer(I'm not a musical creative/student, I'm a visual/dtp artist).
Taeyeon started as Technician but evolved to add Performer type-attributes(in my layman's opinion). Jessica stayed primarily a Performer(watch her on Sisters Who make Waves S3, not just on stage but behind the performances) but I believe 7+ years of training and additional 7+ years performing/recording/rehearsing in SNSD and 10 years of her solo career is something that gives Jessica Technician-status/props(?).
Go read the tvtropes description, I believe Jessica evolves/(-d) to stretch her horizon and not be satisfied with herself/her achievements. Taeyeon also stretched herself to evolve to first guest, then join as permanent cast on Amazing Saturday. I won't go into debatable stuff.
Lastly if technical musicality was the be all and end all, Sohyang or Mariah Carey would be acclaimed as best singer(s) but I personally believe evoking emotional response from listeners/audience is why there's kpop and musical theatre which attract different segments of the population.
I just wanted to add my $0.02.(I have not proofread or edited before posting but every time this thread updates I get in too late so any typos/mistaken points/detours are cause its 3am).
