The three letter issue with the entire exemption discussion

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    Quote from Ves

    And like them, most of the knetz protesting this are males of military age whose argument is: "Well if I have/had to go, you should too!" It ain't because they WANT to go. Taking away conscription shows us how many men would actually voluntarily go. It is very much about BTS IS NOT SPECIAL ENOUGH AND HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING GREAT ENOUGH TO PLACATE ME!!! LET ME YELL SOME MORE ABOUT HOW UNFAIR IT IS TO ME AND TRASH BTS CAUSE THEY ARE THE CONVENIENT FACE AND I NEED SOMEONE TO BE MAD AT!!!!!!!!!

    And they the same men who gave Mr. Son his exemption and remained silent for thousands of others each year. Why because 'they' believe the soccer player is more deserving.


    And when you ask them how and why? The answers they give show as if he doesn't earn any money for personal use and gives it all to charity and is the shining example of Korean pride... oh sorry Korean men's pride. We all know why they crying over BTS, out of all the cases, don't we. :joy: :)

    "Overspending on my pens, that are more in number... than your fans" - Suga.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Ves

    Honestly, trying to blame ARMY for this is low omnimorphism .

    She wasn’t solely blaming Armys for this, she said that every side is making it only about BTS. Which includes Armys too yes… this is not being low, this is a fact. Then she went on giving examples of how some Armys contributed to this dilemma, not that JUST because of this BTS gets hate. Of course media and cherry picked clickbait articles contributed to it the most.


    But you can’t be seriously saying that all the disrespect, the nasty comments and downplaying some Armys did to other Groups was just a “response” to their companies bringing up BTS. It almost sounds like a justification for being rude. The lack of acknowledgment of this at this point gives me the impression that the reason many of you don’t see it, or deny it is, sorry to say, because you think you’re entitled to do that because BTS is so big so downplaying other Groups achievements isn’t disrespectful but a fact since they don’t come close to BTS.


    I have stopped defending those with a superiority complex in my fandoms a long time ago. And I know that certain things that have been said by them caused some sort of resentment within other fandoms and this is why we got so many fanwars. No side is innocent here, we constantly on each other’s neck!


    To say that all the negative stuff that was said was just a response is not true, cause then this applies to every fandom because they also just respond.


    But hey, I was like that too, I everyone hated my faves cause they are jealous and can’t keep them out their mouth and we never did anything wrong, its always the others. And if we got nasty then it’s because it was necessary cause the others made us do it so they deserved it. ….

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from AmmaAffa

    And they the same men who gave Mr. Son his exemption and remained silent for thousands of others each year. Why because 'they' believe the soccer player is more deserving.


    And when you ask them how and why? The answers they give show as if he doesn't earn any money for personal use and gives it all to charity and is the shining example of Korean pride... oh sorry Korean men's pride. We all know why they crying over BTS, out of all the cases, don't we. :joy: :)

    :wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds:

    YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO ME, THIS IS ABOUT BTS NOT DESERVING IT!! STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!

    Quote from Ves

    :wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds::wilds:

    YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO ME, THIS IS ABOUT BTS NOT DESERVING IT!! STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!

    No matter how much their fragile male ego cries out... at the end of the day BTS still has seven sensitive, successful, lovable and charismatic individulas and artists who have each others' backs. So who won?


    Military exemption or no... they can't take this away from them. And they still the most successul Korean brand outside of certain companies like samsung etc.


    :pepe-flirt:

    "Overspending on my pens, that are more in number... than your fans" - Suga.

    Love 1
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from SandyBee3

    But you can’t be seriously saying that all the disrespect, the nasty comments and downplaying some Armys did to other Groups was just a “response” to their companies bringing up BTS. It almost sounds like a justification for being rude. The lack of acknowledgment of this at this point gives me the impression that the reason many of you don’t see it, or deny it is, sorry to say, because you think you’re entitled to do that because BTS is so big so downplaying other Groups achievements isn’t disrespectful but a fact since they don’t come close to BTS.

    ...

    But hey, I was like that too, I everyone hated my faves cause they are jealous and can’t keep them out their mouth and we never did anything wrong, its always the others. And if we got nasty then it’s because it was necessary cause the others made us do it so they deserved it. ….

    You realize that saying, "Well you brought this on yourselves, ARMY" is exactly the same thing you are trying to say you graduated from... Whose achievements are we downplaying by not wanting this exemption discussion brought here? How are we at fault for bringing it here? Are you saying that it's our fault that people dislike BTS and want to bring negative articles over?


    Also, pretty sure omnimorphism is a guy.

    I would be honest, you said a whole lot of... nothing. YOU are reducing everything to fanwars when ARMYs are not even the ones bring up the issue or starting the discussions.


    And when they see kpop fans painting their faves as manly heroes for going to military and BTS less so and how BTS doesn't deserve it. Isn't it common sense to show them how the compaines of other acts used BTS and their achievements to get their own artists out of military?


    When ARMY simply spell out what their companies clearly showed, we are the bad guys? Because we showed how male kpop idols would not even want to go and how kpop companies think BTS deserve exemption?

    "Overspending on my pens, that are more in number... than your fans" - Suga.

    Like 2
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from AmmaAffa

    I would be honest, you said a whole lot of... nothing. YOU are reducing everything to fanwars when ARMYs are not even the ones bring up the issue or starting the discussions.


    And when they see kpop fans painting their faves as manly heroes for going to military and BTS less so and how BTS doesn't deserve it. Isn't it common sense to show them how the compaines of other acts used BTS and their achievements to get their own artists out of military?


    When ARMY simply spell out what their companies clearly showed, we are the bad guys? Because we showed how male kpop idols would not even want to go and how kpop companies think BTS deserve exemption?

    I feel like I'm missing something... though blaming ARMY for people hating on BTS ain't new. We have toxic ARMY for sure, but the most of toxic ones reside on Twitter. Anyway, I was talking about AKP and AKP ARMY. I don't condone a lot of the shit that people get up to on Twitter, but I can hardly blame anyone here for it.

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  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Ves

    You realize that saying, "Well you brought this on yourselves, ARMY" is exactly the same thing you are trying to say you graduated from... Whose achievements are we downplaying by not wanting this exemption discussion brought here? How are we at fault for bringing it here? Are you saying that it's our fault that people dislike BTS and want to bring negative articles over?


    Also, pretty sure omnimorphism is a guy.

    It’s not your fault that people are bringing up these topics and mostly the negative ones in here. But you and everyone else are responsible on how you react to it. If some decide to be all nasty you can’t expect others to just let it slide. You can call out how annoying this whole exemption discussion is without bringing down others… which is happening, not everyone is doing it, not you, but many do and others saw it.


    And the second issue I see here is that you are treating your fandom as one monolith entity, so you see people complaining about some Armys crossing the line and see it as them calling out every single Army so you feel the need to defend.


    I know a lot of fans struggle to accept that some of the hate their faves are getting also comes from how people are engaging with the people within the fandom. No Group deserves to get hate because of petty fanwars and people holding grudges because of them. Because this makes people less sympathetic.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from AmmaAffa

    YOU are reducing everything to fanwars when ARMYs are not even the ones bring up the issue or starting the discussions.

    I stopped reading after the highlighted part. Nope I did not, I said that some of the hate Groups get also comes from fanwars, which is just ONE OF MANY OTHER REASONS… I even mentioned some of these other reasons and stated that they contributed the most to the hate.

    I clearly literally did not reduced everything to fanwars, which wouldn’t be true either.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from SandyBee3

    It’s not your fault that people are bringing up these topics and mostly the negative ones in here. But you and everyone else are responsible on how you react to it. If some decide to be all nasty you can’t expect others to just let it slide. You can call out how annoying this whole exemption discussion is without bringing down others… which is happening, not everyone is doing it, not you, but many do and others saw it.

    Yes everyone is responsible for their own reaction and I say that a lot, but drag the people with bad reactions, not the entire fandom and certainly not BTS!

    Quote from SandyBee3

    And the second issue I see here is that you are treating your fandom as one monolith entity, so you see people complaining about some Armys crossing the line and see it as them calling out every single Army so you feel the need to defend.


    I know a lot of fans struggle to accept that some of the hate their faves are getting also comes from how people are engaging with the people within the fandom. No Group deserves to get hate because of petty fanwars and people holding grudges because of them. Because this makes people less sympathetic.

    I am defending the fact that as a whole, most of AKP ARMY do not want to see this brought up or brought here to AKP. The toxic ARMYs you are referring to certainly exist. Twitter is a fucking playground for them.


    However, holding all ARMY responsible for the toxic reactions from other individuals who happen to be ARMY too is misguided. And the toxic reactions that I mention in my OP are towards a group of boys who have done NOTHING, but be high achieving people who were used as a shield by other companies to bring this issue to light. Yes, we are not happy that our faves are being used as punching bags. Pretty sure in this instance I can speak for all ARMY. Not exactly using them as a monolith, but perhaps I should have clarified that I meant AKP ARMY in the first place.


    Furthermore, in my rant, I was never targeting any fandoms, just toxic individuals (I call them assh*les). I am not treating the toxicity of some as a reflection of their fandom affiliation. That's what you and omnimorphism are doing.

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  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Ves

    Yes everyone is responsible for their own reaction and I say that a lot, but drag the people with bad reactions, not the entire fandom and certainly not BTS!

    BTS definitely does not deserve it ! But neither I nor omnimorphism dragged the entire fandom. We pointed out that there are some fans who behave like that!

    Quote from Ves

    Furthermore, in my rant, I was never targeting any fandoms, just toxic individuals (I call them assh*les). I am not treating the toxicity of some as a reflection of their fandom affiliation. That's what you and omnimorphism are doing

    That is not true, like I said we did not, we didn’t use generalized terms.


    Quote from omnimorphism

    I'm talking about fans complaining that the proposed criteria isn't selective enough and that it has to be something so exclusive that only BTS could ever have it. These people are also making this bill to be about BTS only. I would understand if their worry was that the bill would not pass in its current format, but they're opposing it solely for the fact that someone else could benefit from it. I actually think BTS deserves an exemption, but the entitled behaviour makes me unsympathetic.



    We did not generalized nor dragged the fandom, we didn’t even used the word Army to distinguish between the fandom as a whole and individuals (fans), we were talking about individuals we have caught being toxic under the disguise of “ just defending their faves”. We made it clear by saying “these people” or “a lot or some”…

    In my second reply to I emphasized on it even more for you to know I wasn’t talking about the entire fandom.


    Quote from SandyBee3

    But you can’t be seriously saying that all the disrespect, the nasty comments and downplaying some Armys did to other Groups was just a “response” to their companies bringing up BTS.


    I wasn’t generalizing, I believe he wasn’t either, so your response felt like you are trying to defend the toxic people from the fandom. Which you say you wouldn’t do , but it’s confusing to read that your response to us was because we were dragging the entire fandom when we were obviously not.


    So either because of the heat of the moment you accidentally overlooked it, or you are doing it on purpose, but I wouldn’t know why you would do that, so I give you the benefit of doubt that this was just a honest mistake because this whole thing is stressing your nerves, which is understandable. I would be annoyed too.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from SandyBee3

    BTS definitely does not deserve it ! But neither I nor omnimorphism dragged the entire fandom. We pointed out that there are some fans who behave like that!

    Alright apologies for that since I must have misread "the fans", but I think you've misunderstood. Let me try to explain how I see it.


    He said "some" BTS fans are not in favor because it may benefit others, but I haven't seen that anywhere. Maybe it crossed his TL but it never crossed mine. I thought he was saying we are to blame for dragging conversation on this bill out since we are not happy that it benefits others and have somehow been protesting this? But that just sounds false to me since I haven't heard of that at all.


    His quote:

    Quote

    I'm talking about fans complaining that the proposed criteria isn't selective enough and that it has to be something so exclusive that only BTS could ever have it. These people are also making this bill to be about BTS only. I would understand if their worry was that the bill would not pass in its current format, but they're opposing it solely for the fact that someone else could benefit from it. I actually think BTS deserves an exemption, but the entitled behaviour makes me unsympathetic.


    So to be clear, I'm not defending any toxic ARMY, I'm just saying I haven't seen any ARMY protesting this bill or its new criteria except as a response because when the Order of Cultural Merit was used, it was too high. Now that they've lowered it to awards like the grammy's and the BBMA's, it's too low and not a Korean award according to knetz. I mean, there is no winning at this point.


    So blaming ARMY for protesting the lowering of standards? We are only complaining about the Goldilocks syndrome here because knetz are protesting themselves and dragging BTS while the ones actually at fault of lowering the standards are KOMCA and KPOP companies. I don't think we actually care if other idols get exempted too. Thats KNETZ

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