What's with Korea and lack of vaccines?

Quote from bartkun

in my poor Poland gov already gave 18 mln vaccines...

Vaccines for Europeans have been purchased by the European Union for all Europeans. It is a major power, Korea absolutely does not compete in comparison.

Obviously they are trying to observe the effects on others before they fully commit

Quote from bartkun

I think price was negotiated by European Union on behalf of countries/states. But countries still need to pay for it.

The difference is that EU made deals with six vaccine producents so there were "choices" for governments.

Also, the EU is not really a good example. I don't know how it is viewed in the EU but in my country it was often discussed about how bad the vaccine rollouts was in the EU.

The vaccine rollout in the EU was still pretty terrible, although it is true it had a major price advantage. Until the AstraZeneca fallout, European countries were able to vaccinate people both doses) for $1.50 per person, compared to the $14 per person other countries are paying for Moderna and $17 per person for Pfizer. Its expensive to vaccinate people.

Korea also didn't have existing deals for supplies. Other countries were able to take advantage of COVAX + China donations (China has donated 365m vaccines completely free of charge so far, but South Korea is not poor enough to benefit from this).

it might be the fact that they had 'resolved' the pandemic early; they feel less pressure to vaccinate.

The US has been smashing through vaccine records because people are sick and tired of people dying left and right, the tied up economy, and losing jobs. Meanwhile Korea was able to reopen without much adverse effects; people don't feel such an important need for a vaccine.

But! this is just my opinion.. idk what's the real reason tbh.

Just different strategy and there is a bottleneck with vaccine roll out. Maybe some complacency from the government for having a more successful prevention measures in place. Places like SK can afford and see how the vaccine performs as it is a concern after the Astrazeneca concerns arised.

Also, this sorta complaints occurred with some places in USA like California. They lagged behind at first, but now it is going smoother after the ball starting rolling. Same with Canada. Just countries like SK, Taiwan, and Japan are still in that lagging stage. Outside of China, I think only Singapore is at getting good momentum in East Asia/Southeast Asia. The region in general isn't doing great in this regard. SK is kinda at the top 5 for that region funny enough even thou they are below the world average. SK probably will pick up speed around June/July and catch up around Aug/Sept.

SK target for herd immunity is around November. Maybe a bit ambitious with the sluggish pace. However, once the ball starts rolling, I think it should go smoother there. Vaccination rates in SK is similar to New Zealand, for instance. Sure it sux idols and fans can't fully go back to activities like before, but their priority was to wait and see before planning for vaccination.

EDIT: I don't think this should be seen as a race. It doesn't matter what the country's ranking at the vaccination rate is. It only matters if the country reaches the magical number of 60~90% at reasonable rate.

So instead of looking at numbers out of context, just look at when a country plans to reach their herd immunity target and see how they finish the race. Looking at % now is useless without looking at the plans. Then we can criticize the plans and execution.

Quote from Yan20

Other countries were able to take advantage of COVAX + China donations (China has donated 365m vaccines completely free of charge so far, but South Korea is not poor enough to benefit from this).

I don't think COVAX can really help rich countries. It heavily relies on Covishield, the "made in India" version of Astrazeneca-Oxford. And, now, India cannot export vaccine anymore. Can't blame India as its domestic concern is catastrophic. The COVAX delivery has been retard. I don't think there is any richer country that COVAX has supplied more than few hundreds thousand doses.

Neither Korea will take Chinese vaccine. Korea can opt to buy Sinovac but decided not to.

Quote from bartkun

I think each country should focus to achieve at least 60-70% of whole population vaccinated

not only about vaccinating 60% of those who "are in group of danger"...

people say they are opened in Korea but are they really? they can go to shopping mall yes, but whenever I watch some youtubers from SK who are talking about daily life, they still complain a lot that there are so many restriction in comparison to previous life, and they are a country which already were used to wearing masks, or using hand sanitizer...

which means they still can't have bigger "private" gatherings - even remember Jennie's case with park when she filmed video? they said she came to work so 7 people was ok, but for private/personal travels more than 5 is still banned.

I quite don't get what you trying to say by quoting me. It seems like nothing to do to what I said. I mentioned the 60-90% figure for herd immunity. I didn't specify it was just for group of danger, so dunno why refer to this.

Now YT complaining about restrictions? No shit. Every place are complaining about it. Some even were rioting about it. Dunno why give this example as it has nothing to do to what I said. Of course they can't get to do normal things. Nobody can. Maybe Israel is the closest to reach it first and maybe they can fully open while still having traveling restriction as this depends on every other country too. Hopefully USA gets it by the end of summer.

It's not unique to SK. Japan is in the same boat. Way richer country with lot of sectors suffering from restrictions and they are hosting the Olympic games. They need tourists to recoup the costs of such event. Because of these factors, maybe they should've prioritize vaccination as aggressive as Israel. They got some flak for slow approving the vaccines and flawed booking system.

Koreans complained about the slow acquisition and the government responded with their November plan. However, I think it is too optimistic as SK isn't the only country that ordered vaccines, so they may have problems in getting their order in time before having their distribution system tested. I guess we may only see our favorite idols going full activities only around early 2022.

Quote from bartkun

well here in Poland we already don't need to wear masks outside

you can also go to bar or restaurant which has those seatings on fresh air

sports games like football also have fans back, we will even have Europa League final here in next few days.

You can also book a hotel or cabin near the sea or lake now, which was restricted to do for very long time.

ps: sorry I'm not native English speaker I thought that "herd immunity" means people which have weak/damaged immune system.

edit

also I need to add that we had 2.8 mln total positive corona cases

and South Korea had just 135k total positive corona cases

like the difference is so huge...

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Oh ok. No problem.

Yeah. I'd still wear a mask. To me it became a habit and it has a good side effect of not having to deal with people with flu as well.

About 40% of California is vaccinate and lot of things will be allowed, not just restaurants in open areas and limited seating inside. I miss not going to hobby shops for events and at the end of May we will be allowed to.

I'd be more confident around 70% vaccinated. At least we are seeing the end of the tunnel soon and hopefully every place can catch up soon.

I don't really know why or about the whole country but most people I know don't care about it at all, they have been going on with almost normal life just fine without vaccines

Quote from winniethepb

Basically all politics in play. South Korea believes America will help them and disbelieves in Chinese vaccines (Fairly easy to do a study. Politics is stupid at times, politicians value dignity and ideology over lives)...

Their net gain is negative...

Chinese vaccines work and America ain't giving South Korea any vaccines until everyone in the U.S. is vaccinated and probably after Europe is vaccinated.

https://thediplomat.com/2021/0…-buying-chinese-vaccines/

That's why now, South Korea is looking for Russia's assistance.

The country who made the best decisions when it comes to purchasing vaccines is Serbia. They didn't put all their rocks in one boat. They bought American, Russian, and Chinese vaccines. Their entire population is not only all vaccinated but their vaccinating neighboring countries...Talk about leaders who care for their people.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0…seychelles-sinopharm.html

Quote from winniethepb

I think there is a misconception...

The point of vaccinations is to prevent hospitalizations and minimize symptoms. Yes, the mRNA vaccines are much more effective but it doesn't mean the inactivate vaccines don't work.

https://www.reuters.com/busine…tic-infection-2021-04-16/

Most of the Flu shots we get only have a bit more than 50% efficacy (tbh, efficacy doesn't mean anything, its effectiveness, but effectiveness is very difficult to measure). It wasn't until the mRNA vaccines we saw high efficacy numbers.

It's like people think the reason for shutdowns is to stop the spread of the virus. In some ways it's true but the real intention is to alleviate the overwhelmed hospitals from overflowing with patients.

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news…-effective-150738719.html

Quote from winniethepb

https://www.france24.com/en/eu…nopharm-for-emergency-use

WHO already approved Sinopharm's Sinovac for emergency use.

Most countries have their own CDC to independently assess the drugs and collect their own data. Ultimately, the use of Chinese Vaccines is up to those countries.

In both yours and my links similar assessment has been made

"Few older adults (over 60 years) were enrolled in clinical trials, so efficacy could not be estimated in this age group."

I get this is enough to level Sinovac vaccine a halfway developed deal. Not surprised some governments do not intend to adopt it and is not as political, if WHO has gained more credibility than in the beginning of 2020 on what they announced.

Quote from winniethepb

WHO lost its reputation among dumb people because they are dumb. I hate to say it too...

The majority of Americans don't even trust the CDC...

Imagine not trusting people who specialize in the field but trusting media sources and politicians who can't even do simple math.

I don't want to be rude but some people are sheep. They don't think for themselves...

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Are you saying what was written in both of our links is not true?

Sinovac can apply to all ages?

Quote from winniethepb

I was commenting on "WHO has gained more credibility than in the beginning of 2020 on what they announced.">

I never disagreed... I actually elaborated on your stance.


The age bracket is based on the initial condition of the clinical trial.

For the vaccine to be applied to all ages, there have to be clinical trials for those age brackets. For example, the Pfizer vaccine is only 16+ in the United States whereas Moderna is for 18+, why the difference. It's because, for whatever reason, Moderna believes 18+ gives them quicker approval. But that doesn't necessarily mean Moderna doesn't work for younger people.

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Its is about human life i get "does not mean it does not work for..." type of statement on vaccines do not sustain and will fail to persuade. I get this applies to any vaccine.

What I reckon more political is China put out halfway developed vaccines to tag along western vaccine's schedule which they could have had it more mature before release, another bandwagon in MCGA plot other than have it injected in hundreds of millions of Chinese citizens " in time". They cant miss this world class vaccine diplomacy gig.

Quote from winniethepb

WHO lost its reputation among dumb people because they are dumb. I hate to say it too...

The majority of Americans don't even trust the CDC...

Imagine not trusting people who specialize in the field but trusting media sources and politicians who can't even do simple math.

I don't want to be rude but some people are sheep. They don't think for themselves...

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Good thing I don't trust CDC, media or the government then I guess

Quote from JaedaKim

Good thing I don't trust CDC, media or the government then I guess

You dont buy Anthony Fauci's either?

Quote from winniethepb

They don't always lie.

It's all about filtering information, knowing what is right or wrong.

I'm sure they don't lie 100% of the time, good for me, I can usually get by without needing the government or CDC to tell me what to do, like the 'sheep' you talk about. I'm not part of the herd

Quote from Freddie235X

You dont buy Anthony Fauci's either?

I'm not disbelieving of most things every side says, I'm just being neutral, not falling for what one side says or what the other side says

Quote from winniethepb

I don't think anyone called you a sheep.

No one did, I was just saying that to prove my point, not in a negative or offended way

Quote from winniethepb

Sorry, I didn't get your point.

I don't think you fall into the category of someone who doesn't listen to specialists but listens to politicians.

You don't listen to either.

True, some say that's a flaw but I don't think so, for some people

I listen to everyone I can, but I just don't usually believe them

I'm a see it and believe it person

The issue is probably the supply of vaccines. Every country is trying to get them.

The US actually funded lots of money to pharmaceuticals in the R&D of vaccines. They had preordered and made deals to purchase more before the vaccines were developed. Some EU countries probably did the same.

Why not make the vaccine in Korea instead? My country is doing this

In Germany now 50% of inhabitants got 1th vaccination. 30% have two and are protectet from covid-19 Virus

Also, maybe it has to do with that fact that SARS is a thing here and people have kind of been living under the threat of viruses the past 2 decades or longer, so they are kind of used to it by now

Just a theory

Unlike Europeans, they are quite disciplined. Most people wear masks and do not resent. They never had really serious problems with too large number of cases per day. So I guess their government thinks that they are doing fine without it. Same for their neighbor Japan.

Quote from Flowercrew

Why not make the vaccine in Korea instead? My country is doing this

Not sure about other kinds but SK producing and exporting Astrazeneca-Oxford vaccine.

Quote from 0neechan

Unlike Europeans, they are quite disciplined. Most people wear masks and do not resent. They never had really serious problems with too large number of cases per day. So I guess their government thinks that they are doing fine without it. Same for their neighbor Japan.

Actually, Japanese health staffers have been complaining about overworking due to COVID

Quote from bzzz

Actually, Japanese health staffers have been complaining about overworking due to COVID

You can find complaining people anywhere. But Japan has only 600 cases per 100K people statistics. Compare it with covid situation in European countries. For example 15779 per 100K in Czech Republic or 10948 per 100K in Sweden.