It’s actually the camera work that sucks lol. a lot of KPop choreography is two steps one the actual dance and the second is the camera angles both go together.

If you want to promote in the west or on shows outside Korea companies should have choreography that’s not as dependent on camera work.

The lipsync is driving everything off

About the dance, the camera angles are not doing them justice

This was a hard watch

There are so many wrong things I don’t know where to begin. At this stage in their career, I think both SM and aespa deserve the mocking for their stubborn decisions. It’s not like they’re untalented or that the people are asking too much of them. They would’ve been praised had they stood still and sang live with hand mics.

But no, they almost always forsake live singing for a bad liveless choreo on stages where they would be scrutinized. They should know by now that their strength lies in vocals, but they insist on making the group focus on a choreography that is not prepared well enough to suit the cameras and always look off without backup dancers (I guess the Drama/Armageddon/Whiplash days were a one-time thing).

I lost the count on how many times they tried to appeal to the west using the same failed tactics.

Lip sync, bad choero, bad camera/stage preparation, no backup dancers, no interaction with the audience, dead expressions from some members (Giselle and Ningning), and the wrong show to promote. Either do it properly or quit trying.

This was painful to watch. They are going backwards when they improved so much after Drama. At least back in their KWANGYA days, their concept was interesting and unique. They brought everything wrong back with the addition of a try-hard flavor.

Quote from ISaidISaid

It’s actually the camera work that sucks lol. a lot of KPop choreography is two steps one the actual dance and the second is the camera angles both go together.

If you want to promote in the west or on shows outside Korea companies should have choreography that’s not as dependent on camera work.

True the camera angles are awkward but when you’re good you’re good. Aespa depends too much on camera work and we all know in the US they suck, it’s more a lack of skills

This won’t help with billboard hot 100

Quote from killthisfenty

True the camera angles are awkward but when you’re good you’re good. Aespa depends too much on camera work and we all know in the US they suck, it’s more a lack of skills

I mean I always felt they were stiff and had absolutely no stage presence 😭 but others disagree so like I just assumed that was more my personal preference and not an objective assessment.

But yeah both RV and Aespa while having some good songs and being decent singers are dead boring on stage and this has been one of SM’s greatest failings with their recent GG’s.

They cut their performance omg

That was bad... They looked like amateurs and why don't they sing live

No need to single out aespa - K-Pop over the past decade is pretty much all like this. I don't even want to see groups live any more, especially on US TV shows. Companies should just produce more high quality MV's and find ways to monetize their groups' visuals that don't require live singing performances.

I am a big Aespa fan but that was hard to watch

welcome back, Girls era

Quote from ISaidISaid

It’s actually the camera work that sucks lol. a lot of KPop choreography is two steps one the actual dance and the second is the camera angles both go together.

Quote from killthisfenty

True the camera angles are awkward but when you’re good you’re good. Aespa depends too much on camera work and we all know in the US they suck, it’s more a lack of skills

Quote from ISaidISaid

I mean I always felt they were stiff and had absolutely no stage presence 😭 but others disagree so like I just assumed that was more my personal preference and not an objective assessment.

But yeah both RV and Aespa while having some good songs and being decent singers are dead boring on stage and this has been one of SM’s greatest failings with their recent GG’s.

Another thing contributing to this is simply SM choreos being overly dependent on camerawork/backup dancers. Like, I can see an official footage of an AESPA choreo and it'll be engaging but show me a fan cam or just any video where the camera position is stationary and it'll look like the most boring stage ever

why are they on this show noone even watches ??

the audio is harming them, they don't sound like this

Quote from ISaidISaid

I mean I always felt they were stiff and had absolutely no stage presence 😭 but others disagree so like I just assumed that was more my personal preference and not an objective assessment.

they don't have stage presence, they aren't good dancers plus they don't sing live. There's nothing that can make their live performances good.

Aespa have never been strong performers but they’ve sang live plenty times. They didn’t have their full team nor performed the full song. Not sure what SM were thinking cutting Korea promotions short just to fly these tired girls to America and back

Only because aespa are the top gg right now they’re getting the debates at least we know they can sing!

SM should've presented Naevis to them too

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

I've always wondered and somebody please explain, why do all the kpop idols run to GMA to promote?

Does anyone but middle aged women and older watch that?

I think the major issue is kpop companies doesn't hire American teams to navigate the market. Due to lack of market research they're sending them to shows like GMA which won't help raise their profile in the market. Sure, you might get some parents that might show their children, but they're not going to get many people checking. I think a lot of issues could be solved by hiring better teams. For talk shows most likely better sending them to a show like Jennifer Hudson show or Kelly Clarskon show.

It's high risk but could be high reward, but maybe using influencers to help them out. However, there's a big risk because a lot of influencers aren't trained for that. I did think Kiss of Life did an interesting thing when they partnered with ishowspeed when he was in Korea. He has an audience that could help grow their profile but again incredible risk knowing influencers antics and idols not being fluent in the language.

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Only because aespa are the top gg right now they’re getting the debates

they've always been getting backlash for being less than mid performers so im not sure what side of the internet you've been living in

I give it 1/10

A perfect example of SM doesn't know what they're doing.

Too much lipsync as always, need I say more.

SM need to realize that in the west, a performance is done for the audience at the venue and not for the camera, the camera is there for filming what's happening in the venue and not just the performance on stage. There is no need to focus on where the camera is at throughout the entire performance, that itself is a distraction for the audience and for the Idols themselves performing on stage, just perform for the crowd that's there at the venue and the camera will work itself out. The group should always try to have their eyes focused on the crowd and not the camera. Back in their hometown Idols are trained to perform for the camera and have their eye focused on the camera at all times, that is not necessary for the west at all.

Poor planning of choreo, the original performance is too reliant on backup dancers, if only the members as four is performing then the choreo needs to be drastically changed to fit the four members that are there on stage. It looks so empty when Karina was doing her solo dance break because there is no backup dancers, if that's the case then the 3 remaining members should stay and simulate as backup dancers as an alternative to make the performance look less bland and empty. You got a member standing on stage motionlessly while the song is going on from the very start, yes I'm talking about Winter, tell me that's good choreo when there's only 4 of them there!

And can we talk about how un-in-sync they are? Every member is performing a different choreo compared to each other and when it's actually supposed to be the same choreo at some parts of the song, it still looks out of sync. If they performed like this on a survival show the judges would be asking if they've chosen the right career path and give them a F grade.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

they've always been getting backlash for being less than mid performers so im not sure what side of the internet you've been living in

My point exactly! It’s still being debated on because they’re the top gg it’s the same discussion recycled because aespa usually are hot topics! If this was any other active 4th gen girl group people wouldn’t entertain this

Quote from foreveraespaaa

My point exactly! It’s still being debated on because they’re the top gg it’s the same discussion recycled because aespa usually are hot topics! If this was any other active 4th gen girl group people wouldn’t entertain this

Aespa is a hot topic because they are SM group. If they had the same members and same name but were under another company nobody would talk about them because they would be semiknowm/unknown. That's what always happens with big 4 groups, people talk about them a lot.

They are debated for their lack of stage presence even tho they debuted 5 years ago. Plus there's constant lip syncing that doesn't help them either.

its bad.

They've been too comfortable lipsyncing, they deserve to be criticized

Quote from doesitneedsaying

Aespa is a hot topic because they are SM group. If they had the same members and same name but were under another company nobody would talk about them because they would be semiknowm/unknown. That's what always happens with big 4 groups, people talk about them a lot.

They are debated for their lack of stage presence even tho they debuted 5 years ago. Plus there's constant lip syncing that doesn't help them either.

Yeah but let’s not pretend aespa hate train isn’t a thing! lol

Everything they do is micromanaged! When they perform great or sing live it’s crickets! But anything negative is always highlighted by the same users over and over

Other groups were also spoken recently about their performances and lack of vocals but as usual people only highlight Aespa’s articles

Aespa’s never claimed to be the best performers. It feels like people can’t pick anything else apart because they’re a top/ leading group so recycle the same stuff! It’s so transparent

Quote from foreveraespaaa

My point exactly! It’s still being debated on because they’re the top gg it’s the same discussion recycled because aespa usually are hot topics! If this was any other active 4th gen girl group people wouldn’t entertain this

if you're implying that other fandoms are jealous then yes, this is kpop so thats a nobrainer

if you're implying that there's a witchunt against them because they are currently the top gg then you would be wrong because they have been receiving the same criticism for years and never once have they shown enough improvement for that criticism to die down

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Other groups were also spoken recently about their performances and lack of vocals but as usual people only highlight Aespa’s articles

name these groups, juseyo

dont be scared

The choreography is just so boring, Red Velvet didn't have that problem

And they performed as 4 members sometimes

Quote from foreveraespaaa

It feels like people can’t pick anything else apart because they’re a top/ leading group so recycle the same stuff!

also, criticism doesnt miraculously stop simply because someone is successfull

this is just an overall awful attempt at western promo. Bad song, bad choreo, bad performance, and all lipsynced. They look so manufactured. Wtf is SM thinking.

It's honestly pretty humourous how inept American shows still are at filming Kpop groups specifically for whatever reason, like they're doing it on purpose, but cameras or no cameras, that choreo is awful and makes them look lethargic. They need to focus on singing.

Quote from ISaidISaid

I mean I always felt they were stiff and had absolutely no stage presence 😭 but others disagree so like I just assumed that was more my personal preference and not an objective assessment.

But yeah both RV and Aespa while having some good songs and being decent singers are dead boring on stage and this has been one of SM’s greatest failings with their recent GG’s.

You can't go a single Aespa thread without finding an excuse to bash RV, can you? They do NOT perform like this, and they are more than "decent" singers.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

if you're implying that other fandoms are jealous then yes, this is kpop so thats a nobrainer

if you're implying that there's a witchunt against them because they are currently the top gg then you would be wrong because they have been receiving the same criticism for years and never once have they shown enough improvement for that criticism to die down

name these groups, juseyo

dont be scared

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aespa certainly has improved! One performance doesn’t undo a handful of good performances and live singing

Consistency and progression doesn’t always mean delivering better from performance to performance, but yes they’re overall better performers then they used to be

They’ve always had a witch-hunt even right at debut because they are an SM group and it’s only become worse/focused because they’re the top group. That’s exactly what I’m saying lol!

I’m not naming any group because I have no personal issue with any kpop group like most here seem to have? Nor do i wish to keep repeating the same thing over and over

“This group can’t sing (whilst dancing or standing still) this group can’t dance or this group isn’t pretty enough…” It reads less like critical feedback and more like personal vendettas!

Not my thing

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Yeah but let’s not pretend aespa hate train isn’t a thing! lol

Everything they do is micromanaged! When they perform great or sing live it’s crickets! But anything negative is always highlighted by the same users over and over

Other groups were also spoken recently about their performances and lack of vocals but as usual people only highlight Aespa’s articles

Aespa’s never claimed to be the best performers. It feels like people can’t pick anything else apart because they’re a top/ leading group so recycle the same stuff! It’s so transparent

Display More

Hate train for Big 4 groups is not uncommon. Ask le sserafim.

I don't have a horse in this race. But this performance was bad. I don't think they have stage presence but the only thing that matters is that their fans are happy, they are buying thickets, not me.

I think i heard term sing live 5 times? They even lip sync at concerts which is unacceptable by me. But, again, their fans are fine with that so all is fine.

Quote from doesitneedsaying

Hate train for Big 4 groups is not uncommon. Ask le sserafim.

I don't have a horse in this race. But this performance was bad. I don't think they have stage presence but the only thing that matters is that their fans are happy, they are buying thickets, not me.

I think i heard term sing live 5 times? They even lip sync at concerts which is unacceptable by me. But, again, their fans are fine with that so all is fine.

I’m not debating that this performance is great clearly not their best but everyone’s acting like aespa can’t sing live when they can and have several times!

I’ve posted several post myself with both praise and positive feedback/articles yet it receives crickets from people here (apart from the usual supporters) but they have a bad performance and all the “we just want to give them critical feedback to improve” haters come out lol!

I just find it telling certain people choose to jump on the negative press claiming feedback sake when it’s transparent what it really is! No one on here is stupid so it’s pretty clear as day what’s really going on

Quote from foreveraespaaa

aespa certainly has improved! One performance doesn’t undo a handful of good performances and live singing

Consistency and progression doesn’t always mean delivering better from performance to performance, but yes they’re overall better performers then they used to be

They’ve always had a witch-hunt even right at debut because they are an SM group and it’s only become worse/focused because they’re the top group. That’s exactly what I’m saying lol!

I’m not naming any group because I have no personal issue with any kpop group like most here seem to have? Nor do i wish to keep repeating the same thing over and over

“This group can’t sing (whilst dancing or standing still) this group can’t dance or this group isn’t pretty enough…” It reads less like critical feedback and more like personal vendettas!

Not my thing

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lmao. no one has said this about aespa.

anyway, you could be the greatest singer in the world but if you have no energy while performing, people will and have every right to criticize you for it. face that fact and move on.

Quote from doesitneedsaying

Hate train for Big 4 groups is not uncommon. Ask le sserafim.

I don't have a horse in this race. But this performance was bad. I don't think they have stage presence but the only thing that matters is that their fans are happy, they are buying thickets, not me.

I think i heard term sing live 5 times? They even lip sync at concerts which is unacceptable by me. But, again, their fans are fine with that so all is fine.

It reminds me of Karina’s scandal. So many people used that as a reason to hate on Karina and attack her personally and aespa! ( it didn’t involve the members but they still got hate )

People that had no knowledge on Korean politics or probably don’t actually care about it day to day suddenly became overnight expect in Korean politics just so they could hate on Karina and aespa. She apologized a few times and literally deleted her post within seconds, but people still used it as a scapegoat to unleash whatever pent-up hate they have against aespa!

People should self reflect and ask themselves why they have so much animosity or negative opinions on celebrities or people they don’t know personally because it’s abnormal behavior and very worrying!

Quote from CaraFIMIE

lmao. no one has said this about aespa.

anyway, you could be the greatest singer in the world but if you have no energy while performing, people will and have every right to criticize you for it. face that fact and move on.

I never said people couldn’t criticize not once did I say that!

lol I’m not going in circles

Quote from foreveraespaaa

I never said people couldn’t criticize not once did I say that!

you're acting like the criticism they receive for their lack of stage presence is unreasonable. it isn't.

so yes, thats basically what you're implying

While the performance is bad,

The narrative switch-up and dogpiling on Aespa seems manufactured. It feels like people are at "bitch eating crackers" with that group all of a sudden. It's not just one thing being criticised, it's everything. That seems in bad faith to me. But it's nothing I have seen before, sadly. Maybe the hate train will move onto another group in a few months. Like clockwork.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

you're acting like the criticism they receive for their lack of stage presence is unreasonable. it isn't.

so yes, thats basically what you're implying

Are we in the same discussion what I’m implying is people using aespa's criticism as a scapegoat to talk bad about them generally

If I continuously keep talking bad about a person or group I generally don’t like or listen too then it stops being reasonable criticism and becomes a personal vendetta against them

Some of these users post history shows they’ve disliked aespa and use any negative opportunity to express so so the whole thing becomes transparent!

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Are we in the same discussion what I’m implying is people using aespa's criticism as a scapegoat to talk bad about them generally

If I continuously keep talking bad about a person or group I generally don’t like or listen too then it stops being reasonable criticism and becomes a personal vendetta against them

Some of these users post history shows they’ve disliked aespa and use any negative opportunity to express so so the whole thing becomes transparent!

Girl, just address ISaidISaid directly??