Has kpop transcended rankings?

The biggest fighter is Bang PD so yes, the fight is for nothing, but we like to fight for nothing

If a b tier group outsell s tier groups then are s and a tier groups really s and a tier? Largest majority of kpop stans have no clue about what they say. They just keep saying shit hoping something sticks and the ppl that buy the bs and repeat without checking for themselves are even worse.

If ive was a hybe or sm gg there would be zero doubts about their status, similar to g idle

Quote from bangmenah

I think theres just no stagnant ranking really anymore… even if there was a ranking at this point would it be:

S NewJeans, IVE, G Idle

A Aespa

—-between—- illit???

B Le Sserafim i couldnt even place another group here i guess?

C and below StayC????

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I agree with you that the rankings are inconclusive as there's no gg clearly dominating in all, unlike how it used to be with twice and then bp in the past when it couldn't be argued, nowadays 4th gen ggs are all doing well simultaneously, ppl argue more to say which one is doing least well and then the least well still is very well lol.

Quote from bangmenah

Also why is this a gg issue???? WHY ARENT THE BOYS FIGHTING?

Lol i wonder the same. Last time i saw a fun bg fanwar was in 2017 or 2018 when exo vs bts were still a thing.

I do agree a lot of it seems arbitrary and with how popular kpop is globally now it's really impossible to say which group is the most popular/dominant. and it's kind of stupid to just restrict it to looking at one metric or region for a certain group.

I think some of the fans of 4th gen groups want to think their faves are untouchable like BP/BTS were in their prime but they are outliers. Like you said it is really just ups and downs for every group and even the biggest groups can have weak releases.

No, I disagree.

It's clearly NewJeans and then everybody else.

But the everybody else is the most competitive we've probably ever seen

It means that a lot of Kpop girl groups are doing well at the same time and are actually able to build a loyal fanbase. A good thing in my opinion.

let me reiterate this for the millionth time (as it certainly won't be the last)

METRICS

DATA

CRITERIA

WEIGHTING

etc etc

argue about those and the "rankings" will get easier

the question isn't who is number one or two B tier or A tier it's what criteria are one using to justify such...

let's take something as simply as album sales

do we measure:

overall sales?

sales per year?

sales per album?

does it matter if a group releases 20million versions compared to a group that sells less versions

do digipacks count as a sale

what if groups release expensive special versions that are more expensive?

hanteo vs circle?

(and that's just off the top of my head)

I think people got a little too used to the years long success streaks of 3rd gen girl groups and forgot that when the market is as oversaturated as it is now(similer to 2nd gen) yes there will be the top group but they wont be bagging every single award and they won't be responsible for every single hit. On the girl group side 4th gen feels like a repeat of 2nd gen.

Quote from bangmenah

like this is so arbitrary.

Of COURSE it's arbitrary

Ranking and tiering kpop groups is childish and puerile silliness done by dunces that reduce enjoyment of kpop to competitive ranked sports based on stats and numbers and charts.

There is ZERO need to rank groups. ZERO need to put them on tier groups. The only ranking that really matters is how much YOU enjoy them. An A-tier group vs a B-tier group should be based purely on you like that A-tier group more than you like B-tier groups. Eg my A-tier groups are Itzy, aespa, weeekly, XG. Le Sserafim is B-tier. One of the worlds most popular GG's is D-Tier for me, as is Baemon and Illit.

Quote from bangmenah

Also why is this a gg issue???? WHY ARENT THE BOYS FIGHTING?

Because gg's attract more male fans than bg's do, and it's mostly male fans that reduce enjoyment of kpop into competitive pissing contests about numbers and stats and who is "in the lead" instead of jsut enjoying the music, the content, the fun of it all.

Mostly weird miscreants and rankpoops do that

OP raises good points

I think the cause is that kpop became global. Now groups can be almost nugu or low mid tier in Korea and still be huge. Look at Stray Kids. They're one of the biggest groups in Kpop ever, but you wouldn't be able to tell if you looked at their numbers in Korea.

Before it was pretty clear-cut . Whoever did well in Korea, usually was the same group that did well amongst a much smaller circle of Kpop fans around the rest of the world.

Now you have groups that do well in Korea, groups that do well in Japan, groups that do well in SEA, individual idols that do well in China (they seem more focused on individuals than groups), groups that do well in the US, groups that do well in India, South America, Europe, Africa.

One group might do well in Korea, but not really get those international fans. SEA can be hugely influential. Most obvious example is Blackpink which got enormous support from them from the start.

Everybody still wants to do well on hot 100, but groups can easily survive in other countries without American popularity.

It is far less clear cut who is above who therefore.

Is the group with lots of strongly supporting solo stans in China more popular than a group that does well in Korea only?

Is a low notation on Hot 100 more important than medium popularity in Japan?

Is strong SEA support more important than strong support from Europe and some support from the US?

what if group A does very well in Korea, somewhat well in Japan, did a great arena tour in Europe, while group B does nothing in Korea and Japan, but got 96th on the Hot 100, has huge popularity in India and has a successful tour covering the Middle East and did some arenas in SEA?

And then we have to look at so many factors:

streaming services in Korea, Japan, China, Spotify, Youtube, Apple, whatever else people huge.

Charts in many different parts of the world.

Sales

Social media engagement.

Touring in different areas.

It-status for members in different countries

It's almost impossible to rank unless one group clearly does better in almost all ways.

Like, we can say: AESPA is more popular than Weeekly, but AESPA vs (G)I-dle? I wouldn't know.

Quote from bangmenah

This exactly articulates my point to the t

Thanks and I think you raised a good question

Quote from ThePhantomThief

my A-tier groups are Itzy, aespa, weeekly, XG.

Wait, no Rolling Quartz?

Quote from wsoet

Wait, no Rolling Quartz?

My A-tier groups are actually my signature