Writing fillers doesn't make your favs real songwriter

Quote from thebadguy

Nowadays a lot of kpop stans try to brag that their favs are songwriters because they wrote some filler song in the album that nobody cared about or got released as some fan song that got ignored.

Most companies just let idols to put a word or two in a song so that they can put a songwriter tag on their idol.

If your favs song wasn't good enough to be title song it doesn't counts

Yeah, I've always been sceptic about those boasts where idols are included in a whole cred list of writers to lyrics - where chances are high they might've only contributed a few lines - while when as soon as they're really on their own, their lyrics are disappointing or mediocre at best.

What made it even more wry, was how k-pop stans always gobbled it up as if it was mana from heaven instead of an 'emperor's clothes' situation. But hey, that's k-pop.

I disagree though that only title tracks count: if an idol has contributed full lyrics for a bunch of published songs even if they're not title tracks, then that should count to being a songwriter: you don't have to be amega successful ace, genius songwriter to still be a songwriter.

Depends how much of the song they write. If its one or two lines and there are 10 other co-writers its ridiculous. If its 1/3rd or more, then its more credible.

Songwriting is not extremely godlike difficult things that only 0.01% of idols can do.

Everyone has to start somewhere. It’s better to be “filler” songwriters than not attempting at all (if your ambition is to be a singer/songwriter). Looking down at people trying to do more in life is weird.

I think it's so cool that girl group members get to write lyrics more nowadays. It would be amazing if more would start composing too in the future (if they want to of course)

Quote from thebadguy

it ain't my favs fault that other people's favs written songs aren't good enough for their company to select as title tracks

You do know that we are only talking about lyrics writing here. The Ive members did not make the melody, instrumental etc.. just the lyrics (which is already amazing) so there is no point saying their songs "weren't good enough for title tracks" when they did not make the song

Quote from K-PL

Depends how much of the song they write. If its one or two lines and there are 10 other co-writers its ridiculous. If its 1/3rd or more, then its more credible.

Wonyoung is the sole credited writer in 2 of the 11 songs in their new album, Mine and Shine With Me, and Yujin is the only credited writer in one of the songs as well, Heroine.

If you've written a song, you are generally considered to be a songwriter. Plain and simple. I'm not sure why people feel the need to discredit others by finding some weird argument that doesn't make sense at all. Even if you didn't write a lyric but you contributed to the song by laying down vocal melodies, that still counts, because your input is part of the end product. This is why a song can have multiple songwriters, it's not always just one person writing words down on paper, many people can be involved in the creation process.

Quote from alexS

do you realize how special and unique Soyeon is?

Very few GG members actually produce a song and it's a shame.

And what's crazy about this too is, Soyeon gets hated on anyway from some people because of the role she plays. Even in the West, there aren't too many notable women that are music producers. So to see what Soyeon does at the level that it's being done at AND succeeding with flying colors, that's something to be respected. Especially in Kpop. G-Idle as a whole has three producers, but not every group can (or should) be like them, and I think that's perfectly fine.

For me, I would love it if one of the Twice members wrote a title track, and I'd be hype if they also started going into the producer lane as well. I could see that being Dahyun or Jihyo (many members could, honestly), but the argument OP is making is crazy. Some of Twice's most popular songs are B-Sides written by a member. If title tracks were the only things that mattered, then there'd be no point in having albums.

Quote from alexS

Very few GG members actually produce a song and it's a shame.

True thing.

The only other girl group member I know that composed for every title track of their group was Le (Exid)

She was part of the lyrics and composition of almost every Exid song actually, as well as songs for other groups like T-ara Sugar Free, but she was always a secondary composer to S.Tiger, in contrary to Soyeon who is always the primary composer. She is really insane

Quote from HyperionZero

If you've written a song, you are generally considered to be a songwriter. Plain and simple. I'm not sure why people feel the need to discredit others by finding some weird argument that doesn't make sense at all. Even if you didn't write a lyric but you contributed to the song by laying down vocal melodies, that still counts, because your input is part of the end product. This is why a song can have multiple songwriters, it's not always just one person writing words down on paper, many people can be involved in the creation process.

And what's crazy about this too is, Soyeon gets hated on anyway from some people because of the role she plays. Even in the West, there aren't too many notable women that are music producers. So to see what Soyeon does at the level that it's being done at AND succeeding with flying colors, that's something to be respected. Especially in Kpop. G-Idle as a whole has three producers, but not every group can (or should) be like them, and I think that's perfectly fine.

For me, I would love it if one of the Twice members wrote a title track, and I'd be hype if they also started going into the producer lane as well. I could see that being Dahyun or Jihyo (many members could, honestly), but the argument OP is making is crazy. Some of Twice's most popular songs are B-Sides written by a member. If title tracks were the only things that mattered, then there'd be no point in having albums.

Agreed, disrespecting Soyeon for her songwriting is such a basic b**** take

Yup.

Quote from KpopJop

Agreed, disrespecting Soyeon for her songwriting is such a basic b**** take

Truly. Let me tell you something, as someone that ACTUALLY knows how to write lyrics? She absolutely knows what she's doing, and I think people really underestimate how difficult it can be to write lyrics in a language you don't really know. Now sure, she could get help from some of the members that are more fluent in English and her English stuff obviously isn't perfect. But one weak side isn't enough to discredit her whole skill set, and it just reminds me that many people have no idea what they're talking about. Music listeners don't have to be experts, it's absolutely not required, but some of the takes I've seen...

I remember when Jennie's Solo Remix dropped and I saw people saying the lyrics don't make sense. And I'm sitting there thinking... What?????? Like look at this in particular (color-highlighted the rhyme schemes and multi-syllable structure):

Been gone and came back, comin' for the payback

Asked them how you like it and it's lookin' like they hate that

W, no L's, covered W and Elle, and it's none left on the shelf

Get in trouble by myself, solo, oh well

All me, cross seas, Coco Chanel

This is a well-written verse from a technical aspect, but this part specifically shows that Jennie ACTUALLY knows how to write. There are rappers in the West that don't do it to the degree she's doing it, with the rhyme schemes that she's doing it in while implementing wordplay AND references to BP's discography. This verse is essentially an update on her life and perspective three years later -- after her being dragged through the mud countless times, after Blackpink's debut album, after reaching even greater heights.

The obvious change from "I used to be your girl, now I’m used to being the GOAT" to "Used to be girl, but... Never mind, I used to!" is almost like she's saying "I'm so far removed from you by being on my own, it's not even worth mentioning." And THEN she goes into how she's been shining with Blackpink. She's so successful, she can afford to lose something and replace it without a second thought. And like in the above snippet, she's essentially saying "Yeah, y'all made me Public Enemy #1 for no reason, but I got the last laugh by selling out everything I touch... While I'm chilling a gorgeous estate." And then wraps it up with a nod to Blinks for being there for her through it all.

All of this should be pretty straight-forward if you listen to it, but you'd be surprised how many people I've seen say "ThIs dOeSnT mAkE aNy SeNsE!" And I have to wonder if that due to people hearing the music but not truly listening to it OR it's just trolls being trolls. I suspect it's both. But to summarize my overall point... I think there's a lot of people that underestimate women as a whole as songwriters in Kpop, and it's a shame because they're every bit as capable and witty as their male counterparts. And it gets messy because things like that get dragged into fanwars instead of having a bigger conversation about creative control. Hopefully it changes in the future, as we have more girl groups debuting with idols who know how to write, although there's still a long way to go. I'm optimistic though.

Quote from HyperionZero

Hopefully it changes in the future, as we have more girl groups debuting with idols who know how to write, although there's still a long way to go. I'm optimistic though.

Yes. As long as ggs are given the chance, there will be a good change.

Quote from Daisy_Queen

LE praise

Soyeon is honestly insanely talented but hated for the most superficial reasons that make absolutely zero sense to me. That girl should be treated like an absolute goddess with how difficult it is for women in the industry to make it as artists. She's not exactly a problematic person and while her English raps are questionable at times, she's a phenomenal producer. Each Idle song sounds perfectly tuned to play on each individual members strengths and their discography is almost flawless

Girl deserves flowers, not stones

People tend to not know about Le's contribution to so many amazing bops !

And yes I don't get why people hate on Soyeon really. Also the fact that she encouraged other members to compose-produce-write too and now we have the first kpop girl group ever where 3 different members compose and produce songs and every one of their songs (except their very first mini) is made by one of these 3 members (with co-producers obv). That's just incredible

to be honest a lot of kpop idols don't have any raw talent to write a hit song. they only write lyrics, not compose the song, like soyeon or bang chan, and most get help writing lyrics. I don't think every idol needs to be an amazing song writer, that's not their job, their job is to preform the songs written for them, and do a good job at it.