Was 3rd generation the hardest time for girl groups?

3rd gen and early 4th gen GGs did all the work, now companies are aware of which songs and concepts don't do well and they're applying it to their new groups

and it's not like 3rd gen was lackluster either. just right now a lot of them are past their prime and unable to chart anymore

in hindsight and looking at current GG trends, then yeah i think so. 4th gen seem to be benefitting a lot more from kpop expansion this gen, then they did in 3rd gen.

But i think it’s important to also not look at kpop in a vacuum. I think the rise of hip-hop/rap in the west, in the 2010s with artist like Drake etc and just the rap high in general in the west definitely benefited BGs more than GG, since BGs were more likely do releas hip-hop/rap music.

No? Mamamoo and GFriend both rose in 2015 and had major hits in 2016.

They were both top groups at the same time. That's kind of why they did a joint Showtime season together. You can easily find full episodes on youtube.

GFriend didn't reach the digital peak of their first major hits again (Me Gustas Tu and Rough specfically), but they still had a very strong fandom for relative to their peers and were able to sell out concerts and lots of albums (again this is back when 100k was impressive for a GG)

Mamamoo had #1 hit songs from 2016 to 2018, and that's not counting Hwasa's success individually. They started from basically nothing and rose to top girl group status. Their digitals have cooled off lately, but they're also doing a lot of solo activities and barely promote as a group (until the end of this year maybe).

For several years, Twice, BP, RV, MMM and GF were an absolute wall, so I don't think they suffered in the slightest.

Those girl groups killed it in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019.

4th gen is only really beginning to take off because of Covid.

Imagine delaying your debut because of Covid. Or playing your first few months to empty rooms, if you played at all. Or never getting to start because your company folded because they couldn't pay the bills.

Yes, 2022 was a great time for GGs, and aespa did gangbusters last yr, but Covid was brutal for the industry. At least 3rd gen got to have a career before shit went down.

Quote from Lulu_Key

MMM rised after gfriend momentum cooled down and

This is not true. They rised around same time. The only difference was gfriend had a bigger peak during 2015-2016 but mmm outlasted.

OMG getting hits also had nothing to do with mmm cooling off either. They at last got the attention they deserved.

3Gen groups were always in the back side of BTS and a certain 1,343 years old

Plus other than Twice and BlackPink no clear front runners.

Yeah 3G felt very limited compared to 2G and possibly even 4G.

In 2G there were a lot of ggs that could get hits and were popular especially those outside the usual big 3 groups. T-ara, Kara, Sistar, Secret, Girls Day etc were all huge at times both with music and on tv as regular or fixed guests. A lot of ggs and idols were household names as a result.

Then in 3G it was mainly big 3 ggs and a couple non big 3 like gfriend or Mamamoo. There were some relatively popular ggs like dreamcather or Loona but they weren’t that big tbh outside fans. So if a one them wasn’t promoting or had poor results there wasn’t much else to look forward to for multi/causal fans. For the last few years it’s been a mixed bag: RV been inconsistent (remember many writing them off in 2019 until psycho?), Twice flopping, BP going on hiatuses, Gfirend tanking after 2016 etc so with the immediate success of 4g ggs a gen shift is becoming more obvious.

It's just a conspiracy theory but when the biggest 3 groups of 3rd gen (bts,bp and twice) are completely absent from korean tv for years, then that is to be questioned if korean industry wanted to keep kpop just an export of culture rather than infecting more to their own population.

Quote from icyruios

Produce privilege failed back then

Also back then the globalization of kpop is not as wide as right now right?

Maybe that's also why pd48 seems more successful than pd101, because pd48 had both local and global audience. It had more. (Also in contrast with gp999 where the global > local)

Quote from icyruios

2nd Gen if I were to name top 10 GGs, even the 10th place GG you would be like 'wait they are 10th? Then who the hell is 1 - 9? How strong is the competition? Thing is despite the strong competition, there are many GGs that thrive.

One of the main reason is because KPOP is just starting and the way people get introduced to KPOP back then a lot is from say music show. People consume KPOP in general and watch shows to see a variety of groups, so even lesser known groups ARE Known because people check them out. Not only that, 2nd gen groups do a lot of variety as well. Variety like on actual variety shows not shows companies create for the sake of them. Even if they aren't promoting, they are on this show that show. This is why a lot of 2nd Gen groups even though disbanded, the members themselves have made a name for themselves.

4th Gen does not have that. But what 4th gen has is the international part of KPOP. A lot of 4th Gen groups are nugu in Korea but thrive overseas. The one that are really popular in Korea have Big 4 advantage (admit it), or produce advantage (post IZ*ONE groups yes they are my faves and I admit it as well). StayC got some traction because of BEP. The rest thrive on overseas market, groups like Everglow, Loona.

3rd Gen is where it is stuck. They don't have that huge audience that check them out in music shows or variety shows. They also don't have thay international audience yet at that point of time. What you end up seeing are Big 3 groups, and viral groups (Momoland, OMG, Brave Girls if you count them as 3rd gen lineup). Produce privilege failed back then with Weki Meki/DIA/gugudan. WJSN is actually doing fairly well but I wouldn't call that produce privilege although they could have done better. Dreamcatcher is starting to get more popular but that is overseas.

Oh look I written a thesis oops

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In 2nd Gen small groups had a fair chance to become popular. The big companies and industry wasnt that established.

3rd Gen only had a few groups that got lucky. like mamamoo, Momoland, gfriend oh my Girl and Brave girls.

But 4th Gen. Seems even worse. There is ive but they are from starship, not really a small company and also have former produce groups member.

Stayc and weeekly would be the next in line. But they are not like gfriend or t-ara who, at times, could rival the big3 groups. At least the growing international market keep more groups alive and gives some a profit even if the groups arent that popular.

Girl Groups also struggled during 2nd gen. I think Boy Groups always had it a bit easier and generally, there was no sudden hype wave during the 3rd gen as there was for 2gen in 2011 with PSY and for 4th gen starting 2018 with BTS.

So... Is it better for a kpop group that are not from big4 to just targeting international market?

Since the SK had been saturated by many groups that makes having a break point is harder locally?

hmmm...interesting

what 4th gen groups are doing well besides the top groups???

I wasn't around for most of the 3rd but it would seem like even in the current 4th gen...only the top 4th generation GG are doing well...

what lesser known or nugu 4th gen groups are doing well???

let's say one excludes the top 10 GG from each generation...all that one is left with is mid tier and lesser successful groups no?

a rising tide does not necessarily lift ALL boats!!!

lol some people are talking like 3rd gen ended 5 years ago. The shift has only just started this year.

Not even 2 years ago it was common for people to wonder if the 4th gen would take the baton from 3rd gen any time soon.

The global reach of kpop extended massively over the course of 3rd gen. Just like the 3rd gen reaped the benefits of the hallyu wave started by 2nd gen.

Each generation sets the table for the generation that follows. Kpop being so global today didn't just happen overnight

No I just think 4th gen is getting many small companies famous groups cause of produce, I mean that alone has made like 50 female idols anticipated by fans. I am one of them as I have been anticipating Yunjin to debut.

Also I remember in 2017 there were many ggs with hits or semi hits, WJSN, CLC, Momoland, IOI all were known, its just they didn't have longevity compared to TWICE, BP, RV, GFRIEND, MAMAMOO,

Also 3rd gen is incredibly short.... 2018 is already 4th gen