Hanteo vs Gaon : Who has most accurate numbers???

  • Regarding LALISA's sales:


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    OP's Question:

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    Gaon's Answer:

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    "In the cases of Hanteo Chart, there are cases in which the actual number of albums that have not been shipped is reflected in the chart."


    "...doesn't trust Hanteo Charts data."



    What's your own conclusion about this correspondence? Because I'm confused as hell. :pepe-notes:

  • I was under the impression that both are independent of each other? How will one know the actual number of the other? Aren’t they tallying different things?

  • I was under the impression that both are independent of each other? How will one know the actual number of the other? Aren’t they tallying different things?

    Yes, they are independent from each other.


    In a nutshell, from what I know, Hanteo supposedly counts real-time and retail album sales from all of Hanteo-certified/accredited stores. (C2C)


    Gaon counts all album shipments from distributors. (I'm not sure if I used the correct term.)

    I think I've also read here in the forum before that there are distributors who don't report shipments to Gaon? (I'm also not sure though if I remember that correctly.)


    But these two always have differing numbers, with lower sales numbers on Hanteo most (if not always) of the time.

  • I was under the impression that both are independent of each other? How will one know the actual number of the other? Aren’t they tallying different things?

    Yes, but being logical, sales on Gaon should always be higher or at least equal to Hanteo. They are basically saying Hanteo is reporting sales or shipments of albums that haven’t even been shipped from the distributor to retailers.

  • If they are using the same distributors in general to report these numbers, what is the point of having gaon AND hanteo? What end purpose are they aiming for in reporting album sales that one may accuse the other of falsifying. Are they gaining some kind of profit from reporting true or false information? I’m just confuzzled on the fact that they get their numbers probably from the same distributor, which I thought was not the case, hence why there is BOTH and not just one entity reporting these numbers. I don't follow numbers of sales like other people do but I thought when others post stuff like this on here, what hanteo reports is separate from what gaon or whoever else reports, thereby you combine each of those to get a total. Maybe I was misunderstanding the concept this whole time…?

    :wellr:

  • Yes, but being logical, sales on Gaon should always be higher or at least equal to Hanteo. They are basically saying Hanteo is reporting sales or shipments of albums that haven’t even been shipped from the distributor to retailers.

    I think for Lisa because Hanteo counts different versions like a vinyl case as the same album but Gaon counts them separately. The gap is little so this is likely the case.

                                                   


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  • If they are using the same distributors in general to report these numbers, what is the point of having gaon AND hanteo? What end purpose are they aiming for in reporting album sales that one may accuse the other of falsifying. Are they gaining some kind of profit from reporting true or false information? I’m just confuzzled on the fact that they get their numbers probably from the same distributor, which I thought was not the case, hence why there is BOTH and not just one entity reporting these numbers. I don't follow numbers of sales like other people do but I thought when others post stuff like this on here, what hanteo reports is separate from what gaon or whoever else reports, thereby you combine each of those to get a total. Maybe I was misunderstanding the concept this whole time…?

    :wellr:

    No, you don’t have to combine Hanteo and Gaon sales as Hanteo sales are included in the sales Gaon reports.

    Hanteo: reports shipments from retailers to end customers (example: shipments from Ktown4u to its customers).

    Gaon: reports shipments from distributors to retailers (example: shipments from YG Plus to Ktown4u). Retailers include both Hanteo-certified stores and non-certified stores.


    This is why it doesn’t make sense that an album could have higher sales on Hanteo than Gaon

  • No, you don’t have to combine Hanteo and Gaon sales as Hanteo sales are included in the sales Gaon reports.

    Hanteo: reports shipments from retailers to end customers (example: shipments from Ktown4u to its customers).

    Gaon: reports shipments from distributors to retailers (example: shipments from YG Plus to Ktown4u). Retailers include both Hanteo-certified stores and non-certified stores.


    This is why it doesn’t make sense that an album could have higher sales on Hanteo than Gaon

    Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • Registering to Gaon? Interesting.... :pepe-notes:


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  • kpopace26

    Changed the title of the thread from “Hanteo vs Gaon : Who has the real numbers???” to “Hanteo vs Gaon : Who has most accurate numbers???”.
  • Registering to Gaon? Interesting.... :pepe-notes:


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  • If they are using the same distributors in general to report these numbers, what is the point of having gaon AND hanteo? What end purpose are they aiming for in reporting album sales that one may accuse the other of falsifying. Are they gaining some kind of profit from reporting true or false information? I’m just confuzzled on the fact that they get their numbers probably from the same distributor, which I thought was not the case, hence why there is BOTH and not just one entity reporting these numbers. I don't follow numbers of sales like other people do but I thought when others post stuff like this on here, what hanteo reports is separate from what gaon or whoever else reports, thereby you combine each of those to get a total. Maybe I was misunderstanding the concept this whole time…?

    :wellr:

    The point is money. As always. :sure-bee:


    Hanteo's chart requires retailers be certified with them which means those retailers have to pay to be part of their network. Billboard is similar in that retailers have to be part of SoundScan, but that is much more widespread here. It's mostly independent retailers who aren't part of SoundScan. But that is the main reason why the RIAA has their own system to calculate sales when it comes to certifications so they can include every album sold including those that fall through Billboard's cracks.

  • Im not sure why theres still confusion after all these years.


    Hanteo counts sales from affiliated stores and extrapolates from that, their numbers will never be exact but a close approximation.


    Gaon in turn counts shipped from distributor, not actual store sales.

  • Im not sure why theres still confusion after all these years.


    Hanteo counts sales from affiliated stores and extrapolates from that, their numbers will never be exact but a close approximation.


    Gaon in turn counts shipped from distributor, not actual store sales.


    From Gaon's response to the inquiry, they're kinda saying Hanteo also counts albums not yet shipped? How does that work, if you have any idea? Or I'm just plain dumb, hehe. :pepeflushed:


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    Maybe we're reading it wrongly or we need to know more details. :pepe-notes:

  • Gaon shading Hanteo? Interesting.

    "Don’t judge a book by its cover. Everybody has a reason and everybody has a story. I hope people don’t judge a person based on what they see." Kim Taehyung


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  • From Gaon's response to the inquiry, they're kinda saying Hanteo also counts albums not yet shipped? How does that work, if you have any idea? Or I'm just plain dumb, hehe. :pepeflushed:


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    Maybe we're reading it wrongly or we need to know more details. :pepe-notes:

    from my understanding Gaon makes it seem like albums even in warehouse is counted by Hanteo? But that doesn’t sound right. I’m confused

  • From Gaon's response to the inquiry, they're kinda saying Hanteo also counts albums not yet shipped? How does that work, if you have any idea? Or I'm just plain dumb, hehe. :pepeflushed:


    FTfnKmiXoAAUMGR?format=png&name=medium


    Maybe we're reading it wrongly or we need to know more details. :pepe-notes:

    I don't see how this still confuses people all these years later. It doesn't matter on Hanteo if the album has been shipped.


    Hanteo is POS data, Gaon is not.


    Once you pay for something at a store Hanteo counts it assuming the store is certified, even if it hasn't been shipped yet. For example, if you bought a package from Amazon when you check out and pay Hanteo would count it at that point, however, Gaon won't count whatever it is you bought until it has been shipped, there's always some lag between the two unless you buy in store.


    Hanteo - counts albums at the point of purchase on/after release date

    Ganon - counts albums at the point of shipment


    Hanteo being more than Gaon and this response would insinuate people have purchased albums (and because they've paid for them Hanteo count it) however the albums have not yet been shipped to these people. So theoretically, you should have people that have paid for the album but are still waiting for whatever reason for it to be shipped to them. This could be for example because stores have taken orders they haven't been able to fulfil yet as they haven't had the stock shipped to them yet for whatever reason. Another reason and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure Hanteo does not adjust for returns/refunds (they didn't used to in the past definitely), so if stores took orders they couldn't fulfil and eventually refunded it, Hanteo won't adjust for that. So Hanteo also has "refunded" album sales sitting in there.

  • From Gaon's response to the inquiry, they're kinda saying Hanteo also counts albums not yet shipped? How does that work, if you have any idea? Or I'm just plain dumb, hehe. :pepeflushed:


    FTfnKmiXoAAUMGR?format=png&name=medium


    Maybe we're reading it wrongly or we need to know more details. :pepe-notes:


    from my understanding Gaon makes it seem like albums even in warehouse is counted by Hanteo? But that doesn’t sound right. I’m confused

    Im thinking its just lost in translation, probably ran their korean answer throu google translate and it was mangled


    I think what they mean is that hanteo counts sales from their connected stores, but not all stores are connected to hanteo, thus their numbers can never be 100% accurate.


    Gaon counts all shipments from all korean distributors, thus all retailers ww are included in their numbers (As long as the distributors report the correct numbers). But it also means their numbers are in most cases higher than whats actually been sold, but it wont be off by much in most cases as retailers dont like having overstock.

  • Gaon : distributor -- > store


    Hanteo : store --> consumer


    main problem for them :


    Gaon : they fk up their numbers, they count too many albums for various reasons, sometimes they count too few albums. Because the albums aren't really "sold" when they count them it's not that precise. Because they use distributor numbers they have the most chance to count every single album sold so this is why everyone use gaon in the industry.


    Hanteo : they count like 95% of the stores worldwide, but sometimes there are stores that do not count or sometimes the albums do not report correctly so the numbers tend to be lower. I usually prefer their stats cz it's actually album being sold and I don't want my album be counted if I don't buy it in the end.


    Preorders Gaon is always more reliable of course. If hanteo manages to certify every single store they should be better

  • From Gaon's response to the inquiry, they're kinda saying Hanteo also counts albums not yet shipped? How does that work, if you have any idea? Or I'm just plain dumb, hehe. :pepeflushed:


    FTfnKmiXoAAUMGR?format=png&name=medium


    Maybe we're reading it wrongly or we need to know more details. :pepe-notes:

    Hanteo basically has relationships to fanbases, for example Chinese fan bars. They will count orders from those bars as albums sold even if they aren't printed yet.


    Gaon Charts are literally produced by the Korea Music Content Association and sponsored by South Korea's Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism. They are the most accurate measurement for sales we have. Any ecxess albums will be returned at the end of the year and subtracted from the total.


    Hanteo on the other hand is relatively unreliable as they only use their verified stores and also double count albums that are returned and bought again. It is extremely Korean and Chinese heavy, especially Chinese buyers basically all buy from Hanteo certified stores (especially Ktown4u) with their mass buying.


    It's basically always Hanteo heavy fandoms that try to discredit Gaon because they want to make their groups look better.

  • Really? I've been on their site (Hanteo) and couldn't find a list of stores that are certified by them. Could you help me with this information?

    I just quote them lol, I don't think that they released the full list of hanteo affiliated stores, but all the "big" and "reliable" store I found are Hanteo affiliated. So it's probably true, though the number should be (95% of all the big stores were most albums are sold are counted). The weird kpop store that sell a BTS album that doesn't exist probably isn't affiliated.

  • It’s always kinda funny to me that Korea considers Gaon the standard, but most I-fans insist on Hanteo. (Yes, I understand why but it’s still funny.)


    Maybe someone can help me understand: it sure doesn’t seem like Hanteo covers 95% of the shops worldwide, when I know they don’t cover major U.S. retailers and there don’t seem to be a lot of Hanteo certified retailers on their website?

    ..............................................................................................................perfume

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  • I just quote them lol, I don't think that they released the full list of hanteo affiliated stores, but all the "big" and "reliable" store I found are Hanteo affiliated. So it's probably true, though the number should be (95% of all the big stores were most albums are sold are counted). The weird kpop store that sell a BTS album that doesn't exist probably isn't affiliated.

    Maybe the big kpop shops or the main stores in Korea/Japan, but Target is a major retailer for kpop in the US and they have said several times (to several fanbases) that they are not Hanteo affiliated and have no plans to become affiliated.

  • This is the current list of Haneto retailers according to their website.


    한터차트
    K-POP 실시간 음반/음원 판매량 차트와 팬덤 기반의 스타 차트를 제공하는 커뮤니케이션 플랫폼입니다.
    hanteochart.com

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