Posts by Disevidence

Quote from SooYoung

they were flopping and every people thought it was the end for them with Soojin departure

But they were smart enough to see that POP rock was doing good in this moment with Gayle song blowing up and their was a need in korea for Pop rock sound because Gayle was even bale to chart in Melon

So they were smart to comeback with a pop rock sound when nobody was doing it

Now that they were able to catch again the attention of the public they can do more things they want

Tomboy was written before ABCDEFU was released

Soyeon finished the demo of it in Mid 2021, she mentioned as much. She started writing it as soon as Soojin was put on Hiatus.

By the time ABCDEFU hit Melon top 100 recording for I never Die was completely finished (they worked on them separated beginning Mid 2021, and finished recording around Dec 2021).

Itzy are simply a known quantity at this point.

You know what you are going to get - some people continue to love it, but more general population is clearly tiring of it.

What's been shown this year is people are looking for new music, new concepts. Itzy will struggle because they're going to struggle to pivot.

Look at this year and the groups that popped off- people are chasing something fresh.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

1. ITZY +1.62M (3.28M --> 4.9M)

2. (G)i-dle +1.31M (3.08M --> 4.39M)
3. aespa +1.25M (1.31M --> 2.56M)
4. IVE +1.19M (200K -->1.39M)
5. NewJeans +960K
6. Le Sserafim +940K
7. Kep1er +890K
8. NMIXX +840K
9. StayC +580K (470K -->1.05M)

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This is so ridiculous.

Have a look at their monthly listener count if you want to know who's actually listening to their music. New Jeans, Ive, Idle, and LSF have higher monthly listeners.

Boys like you and Cheshire have very low streams (as an average/day) compared to Nxde, or Antifragile, or After Like, or New Jeans songs.

The IG followers - at least some of those groups have personal IG, so the engagement on the group IG is less.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

1. aespa +1.35M (1.95M --> 3.30M)

2. ITZY +1.23M (4.28M --> 5.51M)
3. IVE +950K (470M --> 1.42M)
4. Le Sserafim +830M
5. NewJeans +710M
6. NMIX +700M
7. Kep1er +500K (630K --> 1.13M)
8. (G)i-dle +410K (1.35M --> 1.76M)
9. StayC +320 (380K --> 700M)

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LSF 800 million? New Jeans 710 Million? Nmixx 700 million? Their worldwide icons with almost 1/10 of the world's population following them

Wow they're popping off, way higher then Itzy!

Quote from ISaidISaid

Absolutely lol. The managers and creative directors at the company 100% know more about the members than other members.

Even if I accept your statement, which I don't, nowhere in that sentence is the in-house producers.

Top 10 Music Videos for Korean Audiences this year -

LYW 1st, 5th, 10th, Psy 2nd, Big Bang 3rd, Blackpink 6th, IVE 7th and 9th, Got the Beat 8th.

Quote from ISaidISaid

This point doesn’t make any sense to me. Actually more than the other members the company producers and the creative directors at the company probably 100% know more about the members. Maybe your point would make sense for soloists. Certainly not group settings.

Your argument is the company's songwriters, who write for all different groups and spend most of their time just coming up with music in the studio, know more about the idols of a group, then the fellow group members who live with them, eat with them, perform on stage with them, go on tour with them?

Quote from ShaShySha

So if idols who self produce knows their teams strengths better, what's the difference between them and in house producers who work specifically for a certain group or often with them?

Because none work for one group and one group alone, there's a difference between academic understanding and lived understanding (see below), and in-house producers are still guns for hire in the general sense, and they rarely if ever the creative lead.

For my example about academic vs lived understanding - SKZ and SVT have many examples, but the best illustration of this is My Bag by Idle, their B-side that charted extremely well.

The verses on that? That's not simply something an in-house producer can or will come up with. There's matters of understanding a group a in-house producer just doesn't have of the group, even working for the label.

You'd have to be writing from a POV of the people in that group to come up with a song like My Bag, and the verses as they are. That's why the song absolutely popped off in Korea.

Self-production songs are almost always superior to me, and generally reflect what I listen to in all genres. I want groups performing the music they wrote. That's true of all genres, Rap, Hip-Hop, Rock, Metal, Pop etc. Does quality matter? Of course it does, and I'm discerning as any. But there's simply too much music out to give my time deep diving groups that don't contribute musically.

Quote from moonlightelle

At least hold everyone to the same standard. 90% of the songs they listed are very much in the same boat as Butter in the terms of the idols being involved in the creative process.

I 100% agree with you.

If the Idol is at the end of the credit list, that's not a self-produced song. I've already said as much earlier in the thread.

Yes, generally speaking self-producing idols write better music for their groups.

Because most of the time those songs are actually written with the group in mind. Their strengths, their variations., what they bring to the table. Parts crafted with those members in mind.

All the "store-bought" songs feel so impersonal, not to mention by default if they idol has actually self composed or the song is classified as "self-produced", then we also avoid the song by by committee rubbish that makes songs so empty and soulless.

Eye of the beholder etc..

Quote from moonlightelle

BTS members have writting credits on Butter,

Cmon now, you know well and truly what they meant by that.

Butter's credit list is a mile long and RM is at the end of that. No shame (at least in RM's aspect), but you can't hold up Butter as an example of a "self-produced" song.

Quote from chilltime

Previous comebacks- It hurts a group's image if it's been a while since they have shown something good. And all year it's only huge misses. Maybe they should have considered aespa strategy to think more about what to show. The biggest rule in kpop is don't comeback twice in a year that u underperformed if your product is not amazing. Sneakers and Boys Like You were exactly that. One two knockout punch for itzy.

I feel that strategy works (and worked) for Blackpink when there was not much competition debuting. If we're looking at the GG landscape right now, the top groups consist of a 2016 debut, a 2018 debut, a 2019 debut, a (late) 2020 debut, a (late) 2021 debut and then 2 2022 debuts.

For years the "let's just have long period between CBs to build up hype" worked if there was only a group that made it big debuting once a year, but in the last 12 months we've had 3, with at least 2 others making some sort of noise due to survival show or label.

I don't think the wait approach will work out. Even Aespa may find headwinds next cb, if it's not top tier, and their in a similar position to Itzy, where they are wedded to a sound, which will cause problems, just like Itzy's sound has, down the road.

I mean look at IVE. No fuss about some "concept", just releasing whatever song will land well in the market. That means they can pivot to any sound as the market changes and still be there.

Don't think in the current landscape people can afford to do the BP strategy anymore, or play hard into a specific concept sound.

Quote from jinaland

idk what group u're talking but i assume ateez

I didn't name any groups purposely, because it's not their (the groups) fault their fans wildly exaggerate claims.

There's about 4 groups that fit my description. The fact that you immediately assumed only one says FAR MORE about your sensitivity to this matter then anything else. This is the 2nd time now where your response or a reply has illuminated a solipsistic view far more then my benign statement.

I'm not criticizing any group. I'm supporting someone else's claim who draws the distinction about how certain fans will wildly exaggerate whilst groups with similar contributions get slander and scorn, and that divide is mostly along the group's gender lines.

Your massive over-reaction just proved that person's point.

Quote from LovenRose

They don’t really produce but still contribute more musically to their albums than the majority of groups, including some boy groups that fans will hype as self-producing, yet it’s almost never mentioned.

Yeah. A few major boy groups fans (starting with the beginning letters of the alphabet) do that very, very often, and when you look into the credit, it's in-house producers 1st, 2nd, and a rap verse at most for most tracks, and perhaps the odd b-side. Rarely if ever main credits on the Title.

Quote from nana18

because even idols themselves talked about how they have zero creative input into what they put out so no i will never be convinced about the so called self produced idols.

Some idols have talked about how they have no creative input, so other, completely separate idols can't have made their songs, made their concepts etc..... yep, it's big brain time.

Both Male and Female idols are self producing. There are groups and idols out there who literally are the creative linchpin of their groups , producing songs, doing all the lyrics, designing concepts, sometimes choreo is from the group.

Hell there are idols out there who are now literally credted as the overall producer (or executive producer) of the albums.

That said above, those groups are great, but no group that does not self-produce should get comments like the OP is describing. I find it funny that the OP made a thread specifically about how Girl Groups are created, and it's almost immediately derailed by BG stans complaining about their treatment.

Mirror to real life. Male topics and "well actually" male bullshit always tries to invade female spaces, and here, we've got a topic to talk about girl groups and the BG stans just can't help but immediately invade.

RV's Birthday is struggling to get any traction, hovering around 100k ULs and mid 50's Melon, and Itzy's Cheshire is right now completely out of the top 100.

Hype Boy is on track to overtake Antifragile very soon.

Hype Boy will honestly be the third song after Tomboy and Love Dive from 2022, longevity wise. It's not budging from around the 300-330k mark.

I've got a suspicion 250 and/or NJ's may pick up some awards at KMA, or at least be strong contenders.

Supressed?

Suppressed or Surpassed?

Best Nugu GG song for me is this one -

Side note - they did a sign language version for it. Kinda cool.

Quote from Bpsosoro

Any predictions for Galllup? IU and BTS #1 & 2 obviously.

I am thinking IVE will end up #3 right behind them.

I think all the rookes will hit high -

IVE, New Jeans, then LS. Ive at least in top 3, and given their popularity may even get #1 or #2, but there is a bit of bad domestic feeling given the Kakao fall out, not really IVE's fault, but it could still impact them.

BP will still be up there too, so possibly top 5 for them as well. This is truly a year where there's been multiple challenges to the frontrunners.

On the digital sales front - Idle continues to absolutely sell bucketloads in China, only BP and Idle are shifting digital albums in China to a great degree. Someone made the comment somewhere about Aespa, and it is strange that SM don't sell Aespa albums digitally in China. Does it hurt physicals? Maybe a little, but I think it opens up a bigger market then it stops physically.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

Lots of pointless, worthless shit can be said based on hypothetical ifs.

During their Queendom intro in 2019, Soyeon said "we're the best of this generation". I don't remember midzys or wizones taking offense, and they didn't for good reason. It's just a flex. It's a stage persona. It's a show.

Wasting your breath

These people are completely incapable of consuming music or literature beyond any sort of base level.

We have a generation of people that are unable to detach their minds of the most surface of notions, such as depiction = endorsement. They truly felt like Soyeon was up there on MAMA with hatred in heart, instead of just simply playing up a persona on a big stage. She was flexing her achievements and making a "in character" challenge to MAMA, but the only viewpoint they can approach this is from victimhood.

This is how people like Sunnysun will go through life, with music and art simply ashes in their mouth, never truly enjoying anything - as they wait on the gestalt for their opinions.

They aren't worth the time or effort. Abandon them to their ignorance

Quote from killthisfenty

RV not doing great

Itzy tanking

Gidle losing their daesangs over IVE, overtaken by LSR and NJ on melon.

3rd gen and early 4th gen groups aren’t doing that great great.

2022 was really the generation shift.

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Yeah man, Gidle have 2 #1 in a row, including some gigantic weeks not only on traditional streaming, but on YT South Korea.

Nxde got #1 on melon and had 2 weeks at 500k ULs, and that's not "Great great"?

Idle have had a B-side chart on Melon for 6 months (and it's still there, above Cheshire)

You are, clinically, insane. Like absolute nothing of value in any of your opinions.