What a precedent this site is setting.
This ripia user also was incredibly problematic before and he'll continue to support his racist and incredibly misogynist friend here but people on this site will still lap up to him. The fact that some Twice fans do it is even worse.
What an interesting thread.
Going by the thoughts of the admin I can only imagine this forum has the potential to go back to the cesspit it was before harbouring racists and other delightful people - basically in line with the AKP news and comments section.
Display MoreHas anyone talked about Every moment of you here? It's this song.
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It was a OST that was one of the biggest hits of 2014 (probably the most competitive year I remember btw), but it was just that, a big hit. It has always been in the top 1000, however a couple of years ago it started rising to the top 300 and top 200, really slowly but always rising. Finally a year ago it made it into the top 100 and it kept rising, it has been rising slowly all the year and it has peaked (excluding 2014) yesterday at #17 in the daily chart and it's #16 now in the 24h chart. Personally I've never seen a growth this slow and organic, I guess there was something like some performances or covers that helped the song get some boosts but it's still really impressive and the song might be a contender for one of the biggest songs in the platform eventually, it's at 6,6M ULs right now and we don't even know if it has peaked. The ULs are the same as a couple of months ago so I'm not sure if it's still rising or if it's just ''lucky'' that the ULs are right now low and it will start falling soon.
Does anyone know why the song is performing like this? Here I leave the Guyso link of the song.
Stolen from a Melon post. Google translate did a number on it but it looks like he kept having viral videos. What I can make out from Google translate is his Dingo Voice video going viral (has 40m views at the moment), Knowing Brothers, then he was on Yoo Jae-Suk's How Do You Play when they were doing a Cyworld special. I don't know what the duet song festival is.
Also read somewhere that all of this led to it becoming a popular song at Karaoke as well and it has been in the top 10 on the Gaon singing room chart for the last 4 month, peaking at 3rd in September. So it feels very ingrained now.
In the last few months he's actually been trending a lot of SK Youtube I've noticed (variety and music), with videos from his own channel as well.
Please take a look at this post for the addition of Iz*One/Loona/(G)I-dle, whom some regard as 3.5th Generation.
Itzy just started touring, and probably has around 50K attendance so far, though their Checkmate tour is continuing into 2023 with eight more shows. StayC hasn't done any concerts as far as I know, but Aespa did have a few "Synk" showcases.
Aespa will probably have a higher attendance than most of the groups on this through fanmeets/showcases alone I'd imagine
I'm sure it's down to multiple factors but I also think their music (the hype ones people would be more likely to cover) just didn't age well.
The idea it's down to not being able to emulate the performance levels is pretty ridiculous when Big Bang get covered despite being better performers and all their scandals.
Display MoreThat's easy enough to generate--please see the table below:
3G+2018_GG_Concert_Attendance_Summary.png
It's still a bit shocking to me that Dreamcatcher has performed in more countries than every other group in this analysis, combined.
Dreamcatcher: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Finland, France, Germany, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, Panama, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Singapore, Spain, South Korea, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States
Every Other Group, Combined: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Denmark, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, Macau, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, Philippines, Poland, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Taiwan, Thailand, United Kingdom ,United States
Dreamcatcher are probably the least successful group on that list domestically in South Korea, so they were always forced to look outwards with their concept. I'm also going to guess here and say they have a pretty low standard deviation? So when it come to picking countries the opportunity cost of performing in one place over another is probably not as large as say Twice.
JYPE notoriously plays it safe with them - they'll send all their boy groups to Europe after a year or so but always refused to send Twice as they'd rather keep them in Japan where they are guaranteed to sell out large arenas and Domes. I think one of the main reasons Twice renewed is because they want to do one big and genuine world tour before completely slowing down so will be shocked if places like Europe, Australia and South America aren't included in their next tour.
Would be interesting see the number of dates and a count for the number of different countries alongside this.
Not really close for me
Considering the weather in the US is this surprising
There's a reason I compared 2018 to 2019, to negate that aspect.
Twice spent most of their earlier careers being criticised about their choreo being too easy, so would you or others outside the fandom noted an improvement in the first place if the choreo didn't allow for it and stayed the same? The answer is no.
You're not going to start talking about how powerful Jihyo is with her performance whilst she's out there performing TT lets be real
No cause you don't read until the end there is a "but"a good performer is a good performer not matter the outfit or the concept.
And using BIGBANG, BTS or Mamamoo as example it's not very relevant since they are excellent performers and absolutely everyone knows it and recognizes it. I think your example can apply to some groups or some idols but not with these three groups.
Christ on a bike the lack of nuance is something else.
I think it's true to an extent for every group, not just Mamamoo.
If Big Bang were performing Bang Bang Bang versus something like Haru Haru to close a show I can imagine which performance the layman international fan would think showcased more stage presence. Nothing to do with skill, just perception of different concepts and styles of music.
Display MoreNot at all, you just missed the point here :
I explain to you that they have always been known in Korea and regardless of the concept, they did almost everything. International fans have always sleep on Mamamoo (for various reasons but that's not the point). Their HIP performance goes viral that's true but that's not related to the concept of the songs. HIP is their most popular songs among international fans and it was also the year they win Queendom (a popular show among international fandom) so they had the public's attention for once + viral.
A good performer is a good performer the concept doesn't matter. Yes there are songs and concepts that allow more freedom or more spectacular choreography. But a good performer will entertain you with anything and make you feel an emotion.
But since you like use youtubue views as indicator look here a performance with 20M views on youtube, they do nothing spectacular but still entertain the crowd and deliver a good performance cause they're good that's all :
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The bold just proves my point so you don't really add anything useful here to negate my point.
My point is relative so yes, you've missed the point.
Also I'll just quote myself as you're clearly picking and choosing what you feel is relevant
Quote
ig we’ll have to agree to disagree there, bc i’m strongly of the opinion that it wouldn’t be a landslide in favour of hip in that scenario like you’re convinced. More people might like hip’s concept more but idt all of them would pick the hip stages as downright having the better stage presence. In fact, there was a lot of discord in mamamoo’s fandom about mamamoo losing what previously made their stages so good to watch when they decided not to go for hand held mics anymore starting from hip’s era in order to have more rigorous choreos. I personally also prefered their performances pre hip’s era and thought their stage presence suffered when they had to put more focus on following the harder choreo instead of fully immersing themselves in engaging with the audience like they used to up until yes i am. The concept had very little to influence our perception of stage presence. We might be in the minority, but our number isn’t as small as you think
As I said in my first post in this thread, Jihyo didn't all of sudden develop good stage presence when Twice released Fancy, even if you were to go back a year earlier to DTNA she was probably within the fandom the member most praised for it. She was for years before an incredibly energetic and bubbly performer.
But people outside the fandom only started praising her stage presence as soon as Twice switched to a semi-stronger concept. Why? Because digestible and familiar aspects of what western fans view as stage presence sticks out more in certain concepts.
When Twice were doing concepts like What is Love, Yes or Yes and the like Twice were seen as cringe, too much aegyo, only have visuals etc. But their skill levels didn't change from 2018 to 2019 to such a drastic measure for Jihyo to all of a sudden start going viral multiple comebacks in a row for her stage presence.
People will appreciate and recognise stage presence more in certain concepts. I don't think that's controversial and I think there is more than enough evidence to support it.
I think we’re going around in circles lol. I didn’t deny that hip’s concept contributed in making it mamamoo’s biggest hit, but I didn’t agree with your leap in logic that mamamoo’s 2019 mama vid being their most watched means the concept made people watch it more bc they perceived it as having the most “stage presence” amongst all mamamoo vids like implied in your first post. My point was that hip had more people check out the performance bc it was their biggest hit. Case in point: their 2018 and 2019 stages were both similar in concept and on par in terms of “stage presence”, but the stage with the bigger song had more views.
But now you’re comparing the views of mamamoo’s performance with other artists also attending 2019 mama? That’s a different argument entirely and not your initial point that i was addressing anyway, bc now there are more variables and the level of performance of each stage is not equal to compare straightforwardly head on, unlike the case of comparing mamamoo’s own vids with each other like above, so obviously the views will also differ accordingly. There are also factors like buzz and virality and even the algorithm affecting why some stages have more views than another at the same event, not just what’s the biggest hit song of the night. Obviously mamamoo’s stage presence helped their video gain steam and sustain the view count growth, but it doesn’t hold weight as evidence to claim that people watched mamamoo’s vid the most bc the concept made them think mamamoo had stage evidence, and if the concept was different they would’ve thought differently. Maybe the video wouldn’t have as many views with a less bombastic concept, but that would be bc the concept isn’t appealing to the wider audience, NOT an indicator that people thought mamamoo didn’t have stage presence. This could be a theory easier to sound convincing when made in regards to some other groups, but not mamamoo. If you watch their stages with more bubbly and bright concepts like um oh ah yeh or you’re the best you’d know what i mean.
Ik i’m going in circles but idk how to make my point clearer lol
I don't get your point - what do you think led to the buzz or virality. I also didn't mention views once in my original post, as it was also about buzz and conversation.
Concepts and songs are essentially synonymous with one another. Different concepts give you different tools to showcase.
The point I was making about Mamamoo wasn't about skill level being different amongst concepts it's about perception - if you showed a 100 average people their Hip 2019 live performance and whatever their most popular I Am the best stage is, which do you would be more highly praise for stage presence? Stage presence is subjective, but certain concepts allow idols to showcase it in a more digestible way for the average fan.
For international fan yes, but in korea no. Blue dragon awards was know as "Idol grave" before mamamoo come to perform and goes viral because they had succeeded in entertaining an unreceptive crowd. Same for Immortal Songs idols have gained recognition since Mamamoo won there. Mamamoo have always been known as amazing performers in Korea.
The youtube views alone don't mean much, because even their performance at MAMA 2018 was highly appreciated and recognized as very good and also went viral.
Who's doubting that exactly? You've missed the point. It's not about 2019 MAMA performance being amazing/their peak and the rest of their stages therefore crap. It's not binary. It's about which concepts give you the best tools to showcase stage presence, or more specifically, which concept gives you the tools to best showcase aspects of stage presence that stick out to the layman.
Their 2019 stage didn't get more views than BTS and Twice because of the song being popular.
i think you’re muddling things. People like hip partly bc of the concept sure, but mamamoo’s stage presence doesn’t really factor that much into it being a hit - a group worse at performing could’ve still bagged it as a hit with the right marketing and timing and luck. After all the mv isn’t just a stage performance of theirs lol and people didn’t watch it simply for the stage presence, so idk what it has to do here? Ive is the top 4th gen rn and it’s certainly not bc of their stage presence lol. You ignore the fact that the music plays a very important role in making a song a hit, especially songs that are breakout hits (like hip internationally, or rollin, or bboom bboom etc.) and not just riding on the coattail of the group’s reputation after a string of previous hits. Stage presence doesn’t really have much relevance here.
Also mamamoo has only appeared on mama 3 times (2018-2020), and hip is undoubtedly their biggest song on the international front during those years, so idk what your point is when you said they appeared on mama many times to equate people watching hip’s video the most to people thinking mamamoo reached the highest level of stage presence with hip lol. Their 2018 performance was just on par but doesn’t have as many views. That’s not bc people thought mamamoo improved so much after only 1 year that they watched hip more. Hip is just the bigger song, that’s it lol
I'm not conflating anything here, if anything you're the one getting confused.
I didn't say their stage presence is why the song is popular, the stage came out weeks after the song came out. There is no objective measure for stage presence for them to reach the highest, but Mamamoo having the most viewed MAMA 2019 video versus groups more popular than them with songs more popular than Hip is explained how exactly?
Read my first post in this thread, certain concepts lend themselves to showcasing aspects people popularly associate with strong stage presence. Especially for western fans who will also have pre-conceptions/prejudice against certain concepts from the get-go.
It is easier to showcase strong stage presence in certain concepts as it's easier to digest. I have no idea what makes you think the Ive point is relevant. A concept encompasses the music, it's literally the biggest part right? I said the song Hip being their most popular song is a point in itself because of its concept (which includes the energy of the song, the choreo, the content etc). Western fans prefer certain concepts jwhich impacts the types of performances the enjoy.
Groups putting out cute concepts comeback after comebacks are going to have a much harder time being seen as having good stage presence versus a hip-hop/fierce concept orientated group.
Um what? The reason mamamoo’s most watched stage is their 2019 mama performance is bc hip is their biggest hit song internationally, and mama is an event that tends to be most watched annually by kpop stans, that’s it lol. It’s certainly not bc that was the peak of their stage presence or whatnot, bc it wasn’t. You can be the best performer in the world but if no one’s heard of you before your videos ain’t gonna have many views. It’s egregious to look at an artist’s video views to gauge which one has the highest perceived “stage presence”; it doesn’t work like that lol
We're not comparing people no-one has heard of, Mamamoo have performed at plenty of MAMAs and were at the forefront of kpop for many years - Hip being their most popular song internationally is a point in itself and why different concepts work with different audiences.
The fact that it's the song and performance that most enamoured international kpop fans is not a surprise. What Korean or Japanese fans see as stage presence is not going to be the same as western fans for example, which dominates the conversation naturally.
