Quote from Eldeweiss

Mamamoo have tried many concepts and different sounds over the years without even talking about the styling and they have always be praised for their performances. Same for BTS.

Just like concepts people also have pre-conceived notions about groups built on what they've done before. Once a group has a label in kpop it sticks for better or worse (I don't think styling is very relevant).

Even if a group improves to a decent level labels stick and people will unconsciously (or consciously) look for things to reaffirm that opinion. They will always give certain groups the benefit of the doubt depending on what is being judged.

That's not to say individual ability/skills aren't important, it's one of the most important and a key reason Mamamoo excel in this department. But I don't think using Mamamoo as an example is strong evidence that concept does not matter, their most popular live stage is MAMA 2019 for a reason.

Izone's music peaked with Rumour, which for me is probably a top 10 girl group song from the 3rd gen.

To an extent I agree.

Concept and the style of music impacts peoples perceptions a lot and subsequently their thoughts on stage presence. Certain concepts also lend themselves to showcasing more elements of what people view as strong stage presence i.e. hyping up the crowd, strong/powerful choreo etc

Jihyo rarely ever got praise for her stage presence but as soon as Twice went to a slightly more mature concept with more hype such as Fancy she became every non-fans favourite. But Jihyo pretty much always had huge enthusiasm whilst performing whilst being a strong dancer.

It comes down to firstly preconceptions/prejudice people hold with concepts and secondly prominent aspects of the concept that don't lend itself to doing things people generally view as strong stage presence - the barrier to being seen as having good stage presence is harder to overcome in certain concepts as people are either not as familiar with it or their pre-conceived notions of the concept are one of too weird/too cute/too easy etc.

It's not a coincidence that a lot of kpop artists that are historically perceived to have the best stage presence have strong hip-hop elements.

JYPE can't find good title tracks for his existing girl groups in South Korea, how much further are they going to push it.

Quote from Armedryu

Why? Why stop on their push in Japan?

They've already peaked in Japan with the public and have an established fandom there.

Quote from caratnotcarrot

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ikr it made ep 2-15 basically 'plot fillers' bc u could watch only the first and last ep and the ending will still make sense

It's a shame because it was a really good show up until that point. But with that ending they just made it so that a majority of the show might as well be a dream. What a waste.

Might be the worst last episode I've seen in years.

Made 99% of the show feel pointless and irrelevant. It's like if Lost ended and they actually were dead along.

Izone weren't a popular digital act. Initial physicals I can imagine was more down to the scandal than anything else as LSF's next release is already nearing 800k

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Literally the only reason why LSRFM is succeeding is cause of Chaewon and Sakura.

New Jeans is the next Blackpink, they're destroying everyone, not just LSRFM. Only Izone's Yujin and Wonyoung stands between them and total domination.

Basically, New Jeans is Blackpink.

Ive is Twice.

LSRFM is Red Velvet.

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The 3rd gen comparison doesn't work because Aespa exist. They have a bigger fandom then any other 4th gen girl group and will probably continuing outselling them all in the immediate future, whilst still being capable of getting as big hits.

There isn't really any comparative to New Jeans in the 3rd gen

Quote from fly-twice

Angels

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OnceTaglist

Watching this has me questioning why they didn't sing their classics considering it's a neutral audience

Quote from jt3000

That is truly random. What do you think the overlap even is between Psy fans & Twice fans?

When it comes to touring in South Korea I can't imagine there's many demographics he doesn't hit

I don't think many would disagree that he's the most popular live act in the country

I can imagine he's good friends with JYP as well going by his cameo at the end of Switch To Me and the fact that they did the Loud show together

I really don't get the insecurity considering everything BP is continuing to accomplish.

Groups don't come close to 90% of their achievements still. In South Korea the biggest girl group rarely has the biggest hit every year, if anything that is very rare. In the grand scheme of things their competition isn't other kpop girl groups for them to get complacent against them.

Quote from aclassyteaparty

i think the big 4 including hybe is widely accepted so there's that. but i do think the big 3 is lagging behind. jype is making terrible decisions with their girl groups. itzy would be the top 4th gen gg if they had better titles and now their direction is muddled. and idt i even need to say much about nmixx. jype is taking too long with their new gg and is missing the peak time to have a new gg out. and sm isn't doing enough for aespa. if the money is still flowing in they're not going to do much to change imo. but the tides are definitely shifting.

They've put out 3 girl groups in 4 years.

JYPE are no longer capable of coming up with good title tracks or promoting with any vigour the girl groups they currently have so why would another one make a difference.

JYPE's issue with their girl groups is quality of the product and adding another group isn't going to fix that, stretching resources and personnel even more.

Quote from emanresu

The rap section / talk/yell/ dance break has destroyed so much of kpop song making.

Get rid of it. Excise it. Kill it off.

It is similarly one of my biggest hurdles to enjoying so many songs.

I've heard so many kpop songs in recent years where certain parts sound great but then the song gets ruined by one of those elements. It feels like they care less about making a good coherent song and more about coming up with a viral tiktok/dance moment.

When kpop songs coherently include those aspects to fit in with the rest of the song you end up with a good end product but now some companies prioritise including multiple different sections of a song to increase the likelihood of some part of it going viral. There's less emphasis on how the song sounds as a whole for me.

Maybe it's confirmation bias but it's one of the reasons I think New Jeans resonate with a lot of people, it's just good music with no attempts to be larger than life. They are basically the only kpop group I've listened to in any kind of volume in the last 4/5 months otherwise I've mainly gone back to OSTs/soloists.

The more I listen to New Jeans I realise one of the aspects I like about their music is the lack of trying to fit raps and dance breaks in where they don't work.

Songs with great melodies and vocals being butchered by rap/dance breaks/random song structures might be one of my biggest pet hate of recent years, where it feels like there's a quota of what needs to be in a kpop song. Especially in the girl group scene where most "rappers" are pretty mediocre, tending to be square pegs in a round hole.

No Love Again > Siren > Timeless

Wasn't a big fan of the rest of the new songs on the album but those 3 really stood out and were some of my favourite b-sides of the year.

Quote from Vivi1388

82. USA — 505k
6. Indonesia — 428k
11. Philippines — 211k
1. Thailand — 202k
1. Korea — 179k

19. Japan - 148k

1. Vietnam - 132k

2. Malaysia - 101k

1. Taiwan- 96k

47. Canada - 94k

56. Australia – 75k

1. Singapore - 66k

1. Hong Kong - 48k

120. Chile – 48k

91. Peru – 29k

+ other countries with 1-10k streams

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Have to say it's surprising seeing the SEA dominance here.

Generalising here but thinking about historically the kind of music that does well there from kpop I don't picture New Jeans music being in that bracket.

Quote from essentialm

You mean what playlists they are added on? I tend to use this site, it ranks the biggest to the smallest playlist the song is added to: https://songstats.com/artist/5pgo3ufh/newjeans with Newjeans as you can see the biggest are Kpop ON, Teen beats and Beyond borders, and they also have some playlisting on a couple of other kpop playlists like New Music Kpop and K-club Party. (Shouldn't have said "Only added" btw, just didn't think the other kpop playlists were relevant to mention since most kpop releases are put on these).

Very useful site.

Honestly amazing numbers from New Jeans then, got to it with less playlisting then the groups below them now assuming the site is accurate. Clearly I underestimate their reach, would be good to see the country specific chart data, only seen the US/SK one so far

Quote from essentialm

As of now, Ditto is only added to KPOP ON, New Music Kpop and Teen Beats which all have quite some followers. They'll probs be added to even bigger playlists like Todays Top Hits in the next couple of weeks tho, that's what they did with their debut singles.

How do you know that out of interest? I find spotify numbers hard to contextualise as a big chunk of information is always missing.

Quote from KpopJop

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19!

That's outrageously high for a kpop group not BTS/BP, nearly double Twice's peak which is pretty crazy to me.

What's their playlisting like? Because I just don't see how they can get those numbers on name alone.

Quote from Disevidence

Eh

We like to talk charts, but is the average listener going to dip because of 24 hits charts? Youtube's chart system is even worse in comparison.

I think that's how Melon saw it to an extent, they can't have taken the decision to change the chart system lightly considering it had been the same for so many years whilst they were dominating - so the fact that it only took them a year to change it back to something similar to the realtime charts has to be driven by something. They'd have all their internal data that is telling them whose clicking where/using what and they must have seen something to say this isn't working.

Even if you look at it from another lens i.e. they were losing subscribers to Youtube Music at the time, the fact that changing the main chart is their response to that shows the importance they view it in.

Quote

YouTube lured users with its playlist made by YouTubers. Some lists attracted millions of users. A list of good songs to listen to when coding, for example, allured more than 14 million viewers. Other music platforms compile their owns, which cannot compete with YouTube in terms of the number of such lists.

“The music industry began to be reorganized in May last year when music platforms abolished real-time rankings,” said a Korea Creative Content Agency official. “People who listened to music everyone liked to through charts started enjoying music for themselves. That changed ways of music distribution.”

Samsung Galaxy boosts YouTube Music’s market share in Korea - KED Global

YouTube is quickly growing in South Korea's music market. BTS posted teaser film for music video of new songs -

www.kedglobal.com

The combination of Samsung's partnership with YouTube in SK in which people got Youtube premium for free and the pandemic really put a bit of a nail in Melon's coffin.

Quote from Disevidence

It dropped a fair bit, 50k or so. I was expecting 500k stabilization but it's well below that.

I wonder if it's just the trough after the peak and it'll stabilize and slowly climb again, but it bled more ULs today then expected.

Difficulty of releasing so close to Christmas I guess

illpray4u really comes back as a dupe every few months eh. As soon as an aggressive BP fan that spends half their time talking about Twice pops up there's a 99% chance it's them

Why did bbgc get banned as well

Anyhow New Jeans not getting a rooftop hit on Genie either, does that mean Big Bang are the only artist to get one this year? I guess Mariah Carey may get one this week. They used to be fairly common relatively speaking.