Katseye will never be as profitable as the popular Kpop ggs, do you agree?
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Who can say.
At the moment they're obviously a gigantic money sink. But the popularity is real. Is it fickle? Time will tell.
To be honest I doubt they last longer than five years.
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I don't think the main purpose of this group is to be as profitable as a K-pop group, believe it or not. I think HYBE already has enough groups to fulfill that role of bringing in money.
I believe the main purpose is to expand the conglomerate's name globally in a way that reaches audiences that K-pop groups don't reach due to the language barrier. So that they continue launching successful artists in the future.
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yeah but that's expected
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They aren't the only act that HYBE America is investing, imo they are doing well seeing how viral they are in the USA and their overall popularity.
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Why are people ignoring the fact that they’re touring?
Physical album sales is not the only thing that makes money. In fact they’re probably making more than many mid tier group because even small venue shows in the US make a lot of money.
Are people not aware that they sold out their tour or something. As long as they do that they’re probably making money comparable to any kpop group.
They way kpop fans behave they probably think even mid tier groups are more profitable than some of the biggest stars in the US because they don’t sell and they use radio play 😭 while most of the money is in concerts.
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Why are people ignoring the fact that they’re touring?
Physical album sales is not the only thing that makes money. In fact they’re probably making more than many mid tier group because even small venue shows in the US make a lot of money.
Are people not aware that they sold out their tour or something. As long as they do that they’re probably making money comparable to any kpop group.
They way kpop fans behave they probably think even mid tier groups are more profitable than some of the biggest stars in the US because they don’t sell and they use radio play 😭 while most of the money is in concerts.
It's an absolutely miniscule tour in tiny venues across two countries.
Mid tier groups are touring better than that. Aren't they?
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Why are people ignoring the fact that they’re touring?
Physical album sales is not the only thing that makes money. In fact they’re probably making more than many mid tier group because even small venue shows in the US make a lot of money.
Are people not aware that they sold out their tour or something. As long as they do that they’re probably making money comparable to any kpop group.
They way kpop fans behave they probably think even mid tier groups are more profitable than some of the biggest stars in the US because they don’t sell and they use radio play 😭 while most of the money is in concerts.
I did some Googling after making this post out of curiosity.
In short, I agree with you. Since they’re under Hybe they’re obviously going to make tons of money, and that alone makes it unfair to compare them to mid tier groups from non–big 4 companies.
They sold out over 50k seats across 16 dates on their first tour, which is a similar number to Itzy’s 2024 world tour. Hybe doesn’t release their tour gross numbers, so I can’t say exactly how much they made, but it was probably around the same as Itzy’s, which was over 6m usd. The difference is that Itzy had 32 dates across the world, while Katseye only had 16, just in North America.
Commercial wise, Katseye also has more cf deals than Illit. Album sales wise, they’re doing well too. Beautiful Chaos sold 186k CDs in the US alone and 122k on Korea’s Circle Chart, putting their total at over 300k now, about the same as Illit’s latest album.
For now, I think Illit still makes more profit than Katseye for their Asia activities and album sales. But if Katseye keeps this up, they could pass them sooner or later. The problem is that Hybe America is still in the red, so it’s hard to tell how much the girls actually making.
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They sold out over 50k seats across 16 dates on their first tour, which is a similar number to Itzy’s 2024 world tour.
Do you have a source for those Itzy numbers?
Seemed low to me, I've seen this thread claiming that they sold >55k tickets in Japan alone, across four dates:
From the kpopthoughts community on RedditExplore this post and more from the kpopthoughts communitywww.reddit.comReliable?
But more plausible than the suggestion that the Beautiful Chaos tour came close to the Born to Be tour in attendance given the relative scope of both tours and the fact that they had similar sized venues (well, Itzy's were bigger in Asia).
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Katseye are a (totally inappropriate) meme group for children who don't know they're a meme group for children. Their audience will grow out of their current phase where they're willing to listen to such a dreadful racket fairly quickly, assuming their parents don't catch them following such an age-inappropriate act long before then, and then it'll be exit stage left. They'll last a few more years at most.
Although they want to have their cake and eat it too, being unable to decide just how "Kpop" they are, they still move more like a western group overall and will ultimately fail to last as long as the more successful Kpop girl groups, which would be highly unusual for a western group. For a Kpop fan's point of reference, Katseye are much more akin to a reality show "project" group in that sense, where they'll be gone the moment they outlive their usefulness, regardless of how high they manage to chart. If Hybe is lucky they'll make a quick buck, but no one is chasing a legacy here. In fact, the members most likely receive no further work in the entertaintment industry once they disband. In other words, whatever success they manage to achieve as Katseye will ultimately be empty calories.
Are people not aware that they sold out their tour or something. As long as they do that they’re probably making money comparable to any kpop group.
The way you actually believe this tripe, although I can't say I'm actually surprised.
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Lets expand on this.
Touring:
Well, we don't believe that Itzy averaged only 1,562 attendees per venue, do we? That their sell-through was like 25% for the venues they played? No, of course not, so its reasonable to assume that their tour had twice as many attendees as Beautiful Chaos at a minimum (and it truly is a minimum, because they played larger venues in some countries).
But remember, this comparison is against the other HYBE groups, or "the popular groups". Katseye is a flagship group. In JYPE, for girlgroups, this not Itzy, this is Twice, whose last tour sold 1.5m tickets and drew in revenue of $170m. For their current tour, their Japanese dates alone will exceed half a million tickets, and they have already have played single nights that exceed 50,000 in attendance (Kaohsiung National Stadium, Philippine Arena). And that is the standard for Blackpink, YGE's flagship, where most venues had a capacity >40,000 per night.
But maybe that comparison is unfair.
The other HYBE group that can be used is Le Sserafim. Le Sserafim played two nights at the Tokyo Dome and drew an audience of 80,000. More than Katseye's entire tour.
So it isn't remotely close. Further, there are considerable fixed costs (transport, accommodation, food) which result in proportionally lower profit margins for smaller tours. So, ~$3m revenue before expenses isn't a lot. Throw in the marketing budget of Katseye and... No, nobody is getting rich off this tour.
Can Katseye catch up? Well, absent greater success in Asia, they would need to tour the west on the scale of Blackpink's western legs. That's a tall order, because we're now talking "best performing girlgroup of all time" level of performance. Traditional k-pop groups, that have a base of popularity in Asia, don't need to pass such a high bar to achieve the same level of income.
Sales:
Comparison against a single doesn't really work. Illit's last EP sold >500,000. 700,000 is the lower bound for a Le Sserafim album. It's also not clear that Circle and Luminate numbers are entirely independent. Many of the sales within the US will have come from distributers tracked by Circle, right? If not, then, uh, all discussion of k-pop album sales is happening under faulty assumptions (IE, that for example, the 3,697,778 copies of SKZ Karma sold on Circle includes the 524,000 reported as sold in the US by Luminate). Given the difference in consumption culture in Katseye's target audience... I don't see them rivalling the other HYBE groups in sales anytime soon. Or ever.
But really all of that is moot, we're talking about the downstream when we know about the source:We know HYBE America loses money (a lot of it), and SouMu and BeLift turn a profit. "But HYBE America are inves-" and SouMu and BeLift aren't? They're not debuting new groups this year even? SouMu didn't put up auditions for male trainees earlier this month? Both labels don't run an entire training division that is expensive as hell?
But Le Sserafim and Illit make enough bank to offset all that. K-pop groups - popular ones, as per thread title - make an awful lot of money. That's why we have Ive members dropping near $10m in cash on property, despite the fact that they only take 50% of the proceeds after expenses. I won't even factor in the purchasing power differential between South Korea and the USA. By comparison, Fifth Harmony members had nowhere near that much money at the point when Camila left. Not even close. Reportedly, most still don't. imo Katseye will make Fifth Harmony-type money, because they are a Fifth Harmony-type group, with a Fifth Harmony-type audience.
The problem is, the industry expectation is for them to not to be that. Or at least, that is my perception. Mina above convincingly suggests otherwise.
And maybe I'm wrong about the future anyway, and they end up being absolutely gigantic, the next Supremes. I do think that they will be putting up a good fight against Blackpink this year in terms of streams, which is insane for such a young group.
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agree
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Kateyes may run on a different income model than our average K-pop groups. Possibly, they are more of "influencer" earning mainly from appearance/performance gigs and product placements.
So, to use their concert tour scale and music sale for comparison may be not right.
Kateyes definitely is meant to make profit, very good of it. I assume it is more of testing-the-water group. It is a partnership project between HYBE and a local American label. The American partner unlikely will keep the partnership going for future groups if Kateyes cannot make satiable profit.
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That depends if they can tour BIG
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They don't need to me more profitable than popular kpop ggs when they already end said groups in almost every other metric: talent, performance, stage presence, etc.
And song quality, right?
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Katseye are a (totally inappropriate) meme group for children who don't know they're a meme group for children. Their audience will grow out of their current phase where they're willing to listen to such a dreadful racket fairly quickly, assuming their parents don't catch them following such an age-inappropriate act long before then, and then it'll be exit stage left. They'll last a few more years at most.
Although they want to have their cake and eat it too, being unable to decide just how "Kpop" they are, they still move more like a western group overall and will ultimately fail to last as long as the more successful Kpop girl groups, which would be highly unusual for a western group. For a Kpop fan's point of reference, Katseye are much more akin to a reality show "project" group in that sense, where they'll be gone the moment they outlive their usefulness, regardless of how high they manage to chart. If Hybe is lucky they'll make a quick buck, but no one is chasing a legacy here. In fact, the members most likely receive no further work in the entertaintment industry once they disband. In other words, whatever success they manage to achieve as Katseye will ultimately be empty calories.
The way you actually believe this tripe, although I can't say I'm actually surprised.
Yes because I tried to get tickets for them and it was sold out days before and the queue was huge. It’s very easy to see the demand is there for them as much as any mid tier kpop group at least and you’ll see that in their subsequent tours lol.
The main point being sales is not remotely as important as touring.
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I did some Googling after making this post out of curiosity.
In short, I agree with you. Since they’re under Hybe they’re obviously going to make tons of money, and that alone makes it unfair to compare them to mid tier groups from non–big 4 companies.
They sold out over 50k seats across 16 dates on their first tour, which is a similar number to Itzy’s 2024 world tour. Hybe doesn’t release their tour gross numbers, so I can’t say exactly how much they made, but it was probably around the same as Itzy’s, which was over 6m usd. The difference is that Itzy had 32 dates across the world, while Katseye only had 16, just in North America.
Commercial wise, Katseye also has more cf deals than Illit. Album sales wise, they’re doing well too. Beautiful Chaos sold 186k CDs in the US alone and 122k on Korea’s Circle Chart, putting their total at over 300k now, about the same as Illit’s latest album.
For now, I think Illit still makes more profit than Katseye for their Asia activities and album sales. But if Katseye keeps this up, they could pass them sooner or later. The problem is that Hybe America is still in the red, so it’s hard to tell how much the girls actually making.
Artists payment from the tour and music is separate to whether the company is making money. None the less as long as they grow their tour, they’ll be fine. And I saw the demand in California for them. Definitely higher than many kpop groups I’ve witnessed who try to book 10k+ venues and end up selling only half that.
So it’s not likely they’re making more money than some top top kpop GG’s but they’re not making as less money as people think they are.
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Yes because I tried to get tickets for them and it was sold out days before and the queue was huge. It’s very easy to see the demand is there for them as much as any mid tier kpop group at least and you’ll see that in their subsequent tours lol.
The main point being sales is not remotely as important as touring.
You didn't say they had the demand of a "mid tier Kpop group." You said they were "probably making money comparable to any Kpop group," which is patently absurd, regardless of whether you're discussing sales or touring. Selling out small venues isn't going to get them there or anywhere close.
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Yes if they are making as much as mid tier group that means they can indeed be compared with kpop in general and they’re not some nugus. Are you incapable of understanding context?
To be compared to kpop they need to be making as much as the average kpop group and yes indeed they’re probably making as much or more than the average kpop group.
If you took that to mean they’re making more Than All Kpop groups ever you sound like one of those brain dead twitter Stan’s who need to be told every single thing and ever infer things.
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I did some Googling after making this post out of curiosity.
In short, I agree with you. Since they’re under Hybe they’re obviously going to make tons of money, and that alone makes it unfair to compare them to mid tier groups from non–big 4 companies.
They sold out over 50k seats across 16 dates on their first tour, which is a similar number to Itzy’s 2024 world tour. Hybe doesn’t release their tour gross numbers, so I can’t say exactly how much they made, but it was probably around the same as Itzy’s, which was over 6m usd. The difference is that Itzy had 32 dates across the world, while Katseye only had 16, just in North America.
Commercial wise, Katseye also has more cf deals than Illit. Album sales wise, they’re doing well too. Beautiful Chaos sold 186k CDs in the US alone and 122k on Korea’s Circle Chart, putting their total at over 300k now, about the same as Illit’s latest album.
For now, I think Illit still makes more profit than Katseye for their Asia activities and album sales. But if Katseye keeps this up, they could pass them sooner or later. The problem is that Hybe America is still in the red, so it’s hard to tell how much the girls actually making.
Yeah 16 shows with like 4K-5k seats sold per tour date will easily come to around 8M dollars made. If they start touring bigger venues in the next tour because demand for them was already high for this tour that number is definitely going to go up.
So imo they will be making similar to many popular groups even if the biggest of big groups continue to make more than them.
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Yes if they are making as much as mid tier group that means they can indeed be compared with kpop in general and they’re not some nugus. Are you incapable of understanding context?
To be compared to kpop they need to be making as much as the average kpop group and yes indeed they’re probably making as much or more than the average kpop group.
If you took that to mean they’re making more Than All Kpop groups ever you sound like one of those brain dead twitter Stan’s who need to be told every single thing and ever infer things.
You're the one who said, and I quote once again, "comparable to any Kpop group." You're the brain dead one here if you think this suggests an average. It does not. It literally means any Kpop group. Words have fixed meanings. Say what you actually mean next time and I wouldn't have to call you out on the absurdity of your claims.
I doubt anyone here even knows what the average Kpop profit or income even is. You have groups who bring in a ton of money for both their company and themselves, as well as groups who lose money and live in debt to their company. Given these facts, the average would not only be wildly unpredictable (and essentially useless), but it could also be decidedly unimpressive given just how few groups actually make it big. We tend to only pay attention to the more successful ones, while all the others fall by the wayside.
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That many dates in the US definitely made more money than you think.
It still wouldn't offset the scale of Itzy's Born to Be tour (which in itself had 9 dates in the US alone), though, is the point, right? Like even if you say, incorrectly, that average ticket price in the US is twice anywhere else in the world, we're still not even, because while Itzy had just twice the number of shows, their venues in Asia were larger. I suspect the $6m reported by Billboard does not factor in all of their locations, just they didn't for Aespa.
And therefore, no, they're not making more than a mid-tier k-pop group? Not when that group has more than twice their touring attendance, definitely sells more physicals, probably sells more merch.
Was demand underestimated for the tour? Yes, but you're talking about this tour as if it's bringing massive amounts of money in, not some hypothetical future tour that hasn't happened yet. The $8m you suggest is not a lot of money, especially because it's just revenue, the fixed costs are huge, and because Katseye in particular are getting much more money poured into them than a mid-tier k-pop group. Like if it really is as low as $8m (and it probably isn't), then its likely Katseye's streaming revenue exceeded their touring revenue in 2025. Which I say just to point out how insignificant that figure is on the scale we're talking about (point of comparison: Billboard says Aespa's last tour drew $18m across North America and Europe, and they had a much bigger Asian leg). And again, the big groups are doing tours that far exceed $100m. Katseye are so far from that, but are likely seeing the same (or greater!) investment those big groups do. Hence all the unprofitability.
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They're the only group from a kpop company that is getting mainstream acceptance. I think that's a huge achievement. Even blackpink with English speaking members gets shoved into the 'other' category.
If they get invited to shows and are photographed with western celebrities they'll hit it big. Their music is secondary and with Hybe playlisting they can push that too.
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You guys can't expect katseye to do tour numbers like BP last tour or Twice last tour when these same groups took years of building their fb to get these numbers so stop with the dumbness bc they are still new, still building their fb and to expect a big tour is impossible even with the big k-pop groups in their early years.
As of now they are doing ok, I won't compare them to Twice and BP, but maybe they can get bigger and surprise everyone.
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You guys can't expect katseye to do tour numbers like BP last tour or Twice last tour when these same groups took years of building their fb to get these numbers so stop with the dumbness bc they are still new, still building their fb and to expect a big tour is impossible even with the big k-pop groups in their early years.
As of now they are doing ok, I won't compare them to Twice and BP, but maybe they can get bigger and surprise everyone.
Nobody is expecting them to do Blackpink or Twice last tour numbers right now, but we are pointing out that it is clownery to suggest that their cute lil tour compares against even something like Itzy's Born to Be tour.
But for the record, Blackpinks In Your Area tour (2018-2019) was almost an order of magnitude bigger than Katseye's tour by attendance. That tour started just over two years after they debuted, while Katseye's tour was one year after their debut
Granted, the majority of the dates of Blackpink's first tour were in Asia, and there are individuals in this thread that seem to act like Asia doesn't exist (see: "mainstream acceptance", above). But it does, and k-pop groups do very well there. They make a lot of money. Katseye do not appear to have that level of popularity throughout Asia (although they are popular in some countries), which sets them at a disadvantage to k-pop groups.
Honestly, there is an air of US superiority to this whole conversation that is especially funny considering one of the participants accused Yama of being racist
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Nobody is expecting them to do Blackpink or Twice last tour numbers right now, but we are pointing out that it is clownery to suggest that their cute lil tour compares against even something like Itzy's Born to Be tour.
But for the record, Blackpinks In Your Area tour (2018-2019) was almost an order of magnitude bigger than Katseye's tour by attendance. That tour started just over two years after they debuted, while Katseye's tour was one year after their debut
Granted, the majority of the dates of Blackpink's first tour were in Asia, and there are individuals in this thread that seem to act like Asia doesn't exist (see: "mainstream acceptance", above). But it does, and k-pop groups do very well there. They make a lot of money. Katseye do not appear to have that level of popularity throughout Asia (although they are popular in some countries), which sets them at a disadvantage to k-pop groups.
Honestly, there is an air of US superiority to this whole conversation that is especially funny considering one of the participants accused Yama of being racist
BP isn't a good example when they are doing better than all ggs, you won't see any other gg doing their numbers imo. Also BP is k-pop and katseye isn't, they obviously have the advantage in Asia, like any other kpop group, while katseye are doing good in USA (where they promote) and from what I see in sns they have a good reach in Brazil too, but idk if it's enough for a tour yet.
What I think is: they are marketed different, they can't count on Asia like k-pop groups do, but they can have chances to grow in America and Europe. It takes time, in the end they are doing ok imo.
And the air of superiority may be bc it's where k-pop companies want their groups to shine and katseye is doing it quite earlier in their careers. I think their fans are just bragging like k-pop fans do ? But idk much what happens with katseye fans and k-pop fans. I just know they fight a lot
I just think it's quite petty (not you) how k-pop fans want to put some pressure in Katseye and dismissing what they already have bc "well, k-pop ggs have more" like ok ?
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What I think is: they are marketed different, they can't count on Asia like k-pop groups do, but they can have chances to grow in America and Europe. It takes time, in the end they are doing ok imo.
Well, this is what I'm saying: They're an American girlgroup, not a Korean one. And for the past twenty years, American girlgroups have not been very profitable, especially compared to soloists, which is why there weren't even that many attempts. The opposite is true in South Korea, hence the inverted ratio of groups to soloists.
The question of the thread - which I think people are losing track of - is "can they be as profitable as NewJeans/Le Sserafim/Illit?" I think,
in the short term, obviously NJZ had explosive growth that Katseye absolutely has not matched. If we again want to talk about touring, Le Sserafim's Flame Rises tour is as good a comparison as any - one year after debut, limited to one region. 12 nights, 85k attendance, >$9m revenue. When we're talking about profitability, discounting the advantage k-pop groups have in Asia makes no sense. The big company groups are - on debut - able to tour bigger venues than Katseye did in their home region. That company advantage is diluted in the states in terms of mindshare, right? It has an effect.
Over the long term? Who knows, but they need to last to stand a chance. As you said, BP and Twice were not touring their current numbers at debut - it took, what, seven years to get to American stadiums right? But American girlgroups have historically been very combustible, and I think this will be true of Katseye as well. But I dunno!
I also think that k-pop groups are less disadvantaged in the US than American groups are in Asia, because many Asian countries are already saturated with pop groups. So, I think Le Sserafim has an easier time than Katseye overall. This is before factoring in expenses. Even if Katseye weren't heavily pushed far beyond most new groups, they would still be more expensive to run because their staff are based in a (much) higher income country.
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Well, this is what I'm saying: They're an American girlgroup, not a Korean one. And for the past twenty years, American girlgroups have not been very profitable, especially compared to soloists, which is why there weren't even that many attempts. The opposite is true in South Korea, hence the inverted ratio of groups to soloists.
The question of the thread - which I think people are losing track of - is "can they be as profitable as NewJeans/Le Sserafim/Illit?" I think,
in the short term, obviously NJZ had explosive growth that Katseye absolutely has not matched. If we again want to talk about touring, Le Sserafim's Flame Rises tour is as good a comparison as any - one year after debut, limited to one region. 12 nights, 85k attendance, >$9m revenue. When we're talking about profitability, discounting the advantage k-pop groups have in Asia makes no sense. The big company groups are - on debut - able to tour bigger venues than Katseye did in their home region. That company advantage is diluted in the states in terms of mindshare, right? It has an effect.
Over the long term? Who knows, but they need to last to stand a chance. As you said, BP and Twice were not touring their current numbers at debut - it took, what, seven years to get to American stadiums right? But American girlgroups have historically been very combustible, and I think this will be true of Katseye as well. But I dunno!
I also think that k-pop groups are less disadvantaged in the US than American groups are in Asia, because many Asian countries are already saturated with pop groups. So, I think Le Sserafim has an easier time than Katseye overall. This is before factoring in expenses. Even if Katseye weren't heavily pushed far beyond most new groups, they would still be more expensive to run because their staff are based in a (much) higher income country.
Agree, in the end it's quite ironic how k-pop groups are in advantage bc of how much global they got while an American based group is "struggling" bc they don't have this advantage.
Overall I agree with your take and they will need time to see if they can grow to do at least some +300k tour attendance, that I think it's the middle term for the groups you mentioned? Tbh idk much about how many attendance the ggs are bringing in... I just know BP numbers
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I don't think Hybe America losing money has to do with Katseye and more so how aggressive they were in acquisition. Hybe America overspent on acquisition and overspent on many labels. Many people thought they spent way too much for hip hop label quality control because most of the acts on that label is on a decline.
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