I think that might be a bit risky because the market is flooded with groups like that. Also, they would directly compete against Hearts2Hearts and unsure if jyp wants to do that. Also, does this formula still work? I feel the market's interest has shifted
I don’t think the market is flooded with groups like twice. More so the market is flooded with aespa and newjeans copycats.
And theres always gonna be competition in kpop. Almost all the big ggs of 4th gen are smaller.
I don't think
JYP lost his impact in korea
People in the past used to tune for their gg cuz WG and Twice were very successfull
So it used to give JYP GG a lot of attention on their debut
But recently with both itzy and nmixx underperforming, JYP GG doesn't get the same attention than they did in the past and it would be hard for their next gg to change it
Unless they pull something different from what other groups have been making
But the problem with JYP is that he never wants to get his hands dirty by trying something new and always play it safe by debuting groups with the concept that is trendy currently
Which make their gg struggle to reach the top cuz they doesn't stand out from the other gg in the industry that try different things
As long as Twice is not totally dead (mabye they are?), I don't think so. But if Twice is over for good, yes I think so.
So it depends on the status of Twice when it's time for the next girlgroup. Hearts2Hearts feels a bit "meh" this far so it's not like it's a killer competion for group with +7 members or so.
As long as Twice is not totally dead (mabye they are?), I don't think so. But if Twice is over for good, yes I think so.
So it depends on the status of Twice when it's time for the next girlgroup. Hearts2Hearts feels a bit "meh" this far so it's not like it's a killer competion for group with +7 members or so.
Even with Twice active I think they can pull it off. Twice doesn’t lean into their earlier cute concepts nor does anyone expect them to at this point. They’ve evolved into concepts that suit their age and the members.
Which leaves room for a girl group to revamp the style and concept early Twice had. And no one’s saying JYP needs to debut another 9 member gg, but if the company wants to stand out and get people interested I think doing a 10, 11, or even 12 member girl group would go against the current trend in kpop.
Not to be rude but JYP already tried the experimental thing with NMIXX. It'd be repetitive if they debuted yet another experimental girl group that'll have a hard time breaking into the public, especially so closely to NMIXX who are only three years into their careers. If you want different experimental then I suggest sticking it out with NMIXX since eventually they'll put out something to your taste.
Display MoreI don't think
JYP lost his impact in korea
People in the past used to tune for their gg cuz WG and Twice were very successfull
So it used to give JYP GG a lot of attention on their debut
But recently with both itzy and nmixx underperforming, JYP GG doesn't get the same attention than they did in the past and it would be hard for their next gg to change it
Unless they pull something different from what other groups have been making
But the problem with JYP is that he never wants to get his hands dirty by trying something new and always play it safe by debuting groups with the concept that is trendy currently
Which make their gg struggle to reach the top cuz they doesn't stand out from the other gg in the industry that try different things
You're hitting the nail on the coffin of the point I'm making. Since both ITZY and NMIXX have "underperformed" I think JYP needs to stop taking risks when it comes to their ggs. There's a reason Wonder girls and Twice were so beloved by the general public, and I don't think JYPE has lost their touch. I believe they could top the generation once again if they just released a girl group that could be the spiritual successors of Twice.
5th seems to be struggling in SK, so I think JYP might have a chance. K-pop feels like it needs at least one group to completely dominate to pull out of this slump. Even though Aespa and IVE are among the biggest, they still come off as a bit weak. It seems like kpop fans are looking for “kartel” groups that dominate both in SK and internationally, rather than groups with truly diverse music.
5th seems to be struggling in SK, so I think JYP might have a chance. K-pop feels like it needs at least one group to completely dominate to pull out of this slump. Even though Aespa and IVE are among the biggest, they still come off as a bit weak. It seems like kpop fans are looking for “kartel” groups that dominate both in SK and internationally, rather than groups with truly diverse music.
Your thinking is exactly how I feel. All the 5th gen groups thus far don't seem too far apart when it comes to popularity. Almost like everyone's at a similar level, but if JYP puts out a larger gg with the essence of Twice, I think they could really shake the generation up. Imo they're the company with the best chances of doing so. Even considering Hybe's new ggs coming next year (Pledis & Source Music) I don't think they'll be anything groundbreaking and will still follow the same 6-member formula that Hybe has crafted for its ggs. Thus, JYP is in the best position to break out IF they go the twice route.
Your thinking is exactly how I feel. All the 5th gen groups thus far don't seem too far apart when it comes to popularity. Almost like everyone's at a similar level, but if JYP puts out a larger gg with the essence of Twice, I think they could really shake the generation up. Imo they're the company with the best chances of doing so. Even considering Hybe's new ggs coming next year (Pledis & Source Music) I don't think they'll be anything groundbreaking and will still follow the same 6-member formula that Hybe has crafted for its ggs. Thus, JYP is in the best position to break out IF they go the twice route.
agree. I still think JYP’s the best at finding songs everyone can vibe with. Honestly, if a group dropped Twice’s early hits now, they’d still be hits. JYP just needs to do what they used to. If NJ were still around, none of this drama would even be happening.
True, but I think it's better for a group to seek their own identity rather than repeating a previous formula. I think what's interesting about jyp groups, is that each group has their own identity.
I'm not sure what direction they will go but hope they have the right song selection. I think that part is what usually hurts jyp groups. I enjoy the output from their groups but casually listeners are mixed
True, but I think it's better for a group to seek their own identity rather than repeating a previous formula. I think what's interesting about jyp groups, is that each group has their own identity.
I'm not sure what direction they will go but hope they have the right song selection. I think that part is what usually hurts jyp groups. I enjoy the output from their groups but casually listeners are mixed
I think to be mainstream, you don’t need to be different , you need generic, simple, and catchy music. I feel like that’s what K-pop fans are looking for, not groups with their own unique style. Otherwise, we do have decent groups like NMIXX, H2H, and Kiof and Baemon.
I disagree, there's a lot of compelling reasons to have large ggs and they've succeeded in years past. More people in the group means more individuals fans can connect with. Larger ggs offer a wide variety of personalities and makes the content fans engage with interesting when you have more than 4 or 5 or 6 people. There's also the aspect of more intricate and beautiful choreography when you have a group with many members. I could go on a whole essay of why larger groups are great, but my point still stands.
I think it depends!
If this new group is TWICE successor in terms of concept then they probably won’t do so well or as well as twice did 
TWICE is still very active so having two groups from the same company promoting similar music styles is a no go 
If you meant in terms of success then yes anything’s possible! JYP is still a big 3 company and people will always tune in to see what this new group has to offer! Imo they should have a not so successful debut but not polarising hated one either.
Exactly like Twice debut. Theirs wasn’t really successful in terms charting but people liked it enough to keep an ear out for them.
Itzy’s was more smash hit and Nmixx was dubbed the worse debut in kpop. Somewhere in between would be best imo 
Even with Twice active I think they can pull it off. Twice doesn’t lean into their earlier cute concepts nor does anyone expect them to at this point. They’ve evolved into concepts that suit their age and the members.
Which leaves room for a girl group to revamp the style and concept early Twice had. And no one’s saying JYP needs to debut another 9 member gg, but if the company wants to stand out and get people interested I think doing a 10, 11, or even 12 member girl group would go against the current trend in kpop.
Yes it's not totally impossible they would debute a new +7 group even if Twice is still semi-active, I just feel it to be a bit less likely. But depends on the plans for Twice, I don't know how much time they have left on their contract.
Yes it's not totally impossible they would debute a new +7 group even if Twice is still semi-active, I just feel it to be a bit less likely. But depends on the plans for Twice, I don't know how much time they have left on their contract.
I honestly think Twice will still renew and stay with JYPE. But, they might dive into more solo career stuff, and the comebacks may become less for each year seeing as this is their 10th year anniversary. I think after this point, they could go for one comeback a year or every other year depending on how the members' solo activities go.
Somewhat agree, but there needs to be something to reel fans in.
Aespa - was able to create an image and signature sound that gave them an identity
Idle - Had an image that went against what people expect from kpop idols. Also, being a self produced group gave them the edge to create a sound that was their own.
NewJeans - Explored sounds that hasn't been explored in kpop. Leaning towards Y2K aesthetics made them standout and had multiple demographics check their music out.
I fully agree that you need to make catchy music because the groups above all had catchy hits. I think if you don't have catchy hits early, then a group can run into trouble trying to regain casual listeners. I think there needs to be a fine balance because a group can't make music that's too polarizing. People might look back and realize a song was ahead of it's time, but that usually doesn't help a group in the present.
Display MoreSomewhat agree, but there needs to be something to reel fans in.
Aespa - was able to create an image and signature sound that gave them an identity
Idle - Had an image that went against what people expect from kpop idols. Also, being a self produced group gave them the edge to create a sound that was their own.
NewJeans - Explored sounds that hasn't been explored in kpop. Leaning towards Y2K aesthetics made them standout and had multiple demographics check their music out.
I fully agree that you need to make catchy music because the groups above all had catchy hits. I think if you don't have catchy hits early, then a group can run into trouble trying to regain casual listeners. I think there needs to be a fine balance because a group can't make music that's too polarizing. People might look back and realize a song was ahead of it's time, but that usually doesn't help a group in the present.
Tbh, I only see NJ as truly mainstream out of those. Aespa and IVE feel kinda weak. BP, Twice, and NJ are exactly what K-pop fans want not Aespa or IVE. All three have that simple, generic, catchy, mainstream vibe. IMO It’s always the music first, then the fans come.
There is a room for this but in a good, and creative way. They could have 9 or even 11 members focus on first 3 songs, like they've did with ITZY. Kind of that the very first songs give us info what kind of style this group is.
And later on to bring another wave of attention, split them into units which concept would differ very much, one could be light, other could be shadow. You know what I mean.
That's fair. I was talking more about top group.
I agree there's different levels and NJ, BP, and Twice are/were at a different level than the other groups mentioned. I feel the biggest hits that caught on with general public are the catchy and easier listening songs.
The catchy songs from the groups mentioned like Love Dive, After Like, I am, Tomboy Queencard, fate, Whiplash, Next Level, Whiplash, and Supernova all had major success because catchy and easy to sing. I think it's the usual thing needed to have a mainstream hit in any industry. I think the toughest part is repeating the success and maintaining listeners.
That's fair. I was talking more about top group.
I agree there's different levels and NJ, BP, and Twice are/were at a different level than the other groups mentioned. I feel the biggest hits that caught on with general public are the catchy and easier listening songs.
The catchy songs from the groups mentioned like Love Dive, After Like, I am, Tomboy Queencard, fate, Whiplash, Next Level, Whiplash, and Supernova all had major success because catchy and easy to sing. I think it's the usual thing needed to have a mainstream hit in any industry. I think the toughest part is repeating the success and maintaining listeners.
Got it. I think OP was talking about mainstream groups, which is why I separated being a hit group from being mainstream. The songs you mentioned are definitely hits, but they’re not on that NJ,BP,Twice kind of mainstream level that dominates both internationally and in SK at the same time. I think kpop fans looking for mainstream groups not hit groups.
This might be controversial of me to say but JYP hasnt missed with a GG ever.
Nmixx took time to catch on but they are so good at making a hit, Itzy came out of the gate with a hit and has had midsized hits since, obviously Twice speaks for themselves, as do Miss A and Wonder Girls.
If anything HYBE has the shakiest ground to stand on, next is CUBE, then SM/YG and then finally the best is JYP over time. (HYBE would do better on average, but Pledis destroyed BOTH afterschool AND pristin and Big Hit had GLAM…)
That being said i think if anybody plans to do a 7+ member group again, they need to do anti marketing for them. Float each of the members so people are maybe aware of the people in some capacity and then just debut a mini album with 5 songs, 2 or 3 are actually promoted to show the different musical sides/influences of said group with no pre-hype/buildup because while it can ensure your FIRST single is a hit (with people checking it out) the anticipation will lead to people creating a sound in their own head as we all did with Meovv and their hype-based peers.
Edit: they should also probably make the group have some type of unity throughout or at least personal connection to the music/writing/choreography because then there are reinforcements that this group is “serious” in the sense that they are artists and not idols which it feels the industry is sort of shifting towards
That's i think the worst take
The reason 5th gen gg aren't able to be popular is because they are all generic, and simple
Illit, H2H, kiiikiii,etc.... Are all pushing this girls next door/cute image
Which make people feel like they are all consuming the same product when it shouldn't feel like this
Nmixx reason why it didn't work out is that for a lot of koreans they debuted trying to surf on the vibe of songs like Next Level with their mix of genre, lore etc....
And the problem is that at this moment aespa was at the top so they were trying to go for a niche that already had a well establish artist in position
As for Kiof, their problem is that they are from a small company and doesn't get the budget to market them well enough
And as for Baemon their problem is that even if they are more successfull than other 5th gen, looking at most people feedback is that baemon lack of personality and branding and only look like a continuation of BP
saying groups need to be generic and simple and don't make them stand out is the worst advice you would say
It's commerce 101
If you're product is basic, generic and simple like all the other product
Then what give to a consumer a reason to consume your product more than the product of you opponent ? NONE
You need to be able to make your product stand out through their branding, image, or even promotion strategy
Why twice were successfull at their time ? Every kpop gg were doing catchy and simple songs
WHy they were able to stand out
Is because first of all JYP did something new to promote them before debut with a survival show
And when he decided on the lineup he toon 9 girls
Cuz big gg were a niche that were lead by snsd and when twice debuted, snsd was not doing group activities anymore
So they knew that they could take this niche and makes it their own
And they stand out cuz there was no other big gg with different charm at this time
Bp stand out cuz when everybody was doing cute they were doing girl crush
Aespa stood out cuz when everybody decided to follow the girl crush concept
They did like you said they went for the generic simple formula of girl crush that BP show was working
And aespa understood that they needed something more to stand out so they twisted the girl crush concept and added hyperpop sound and cyberpunk aesthetic, which was pretty new to kpop
And new jeans, stood out cuz they decided to go for this nostaglic 2000's vibe and it work
And notice how all these gg that decided to take a risk different from what other gg were doing ended up being the biggest groups of their generation
While groups that were more generic and simple probably did great but they are not the name that people remember
Display MoreThat's i think the worst take
The reason 5th gen gg aren't able to be popular is because they are all generic, and simple
Illit, H2H, kiiikiii,etc.... Are all pushing this girls next door/cute image
Which make people feel like they are all consuming the same product when it shouldn't feel like this
Nmixx reason why it didn't work out is that for a lot of koreans they debuted trying to surf on the vibe of songs like Next Level with their mix of genre, lore etc....
And the problem is that at this moment aespa was at the top so they were trying to go for a niche that already had a well establish artist in position
As for Kiof, their problem is that they are from a small company and doesn't get the budget to market them well enough
And as for Baemon their problem is that even if they are more successfull than other 5th gen, looking at most people feedback is that baemon lack of personality and branding and only look like a continuation of BP
saying groups need to be generic and simple and don't make them stand out is the worst advice you would say
It's commerce 101
If you're product is basic, generic and simple like all the other product
Then what give to a consumer a reason to consume your product more than the product of you opponent ? NONE
You need to be able to make your product stand out through their branding, image, or even promotion strategy
Why twice were successfull at their time ? Every kpop gg were doing catchy and simple songs
WHy they were able to stand out
Is because first of all JYP did something new to promote them before debut with a survival show
And when he decided on the lineup he toon 9 girls
Cuz big gg were a niche that were lead by snsd and when twice debuted, snsd was not doing group activities anymore
So they knew that they could take this niche and makes it their own
And they stand out cuz there was no other big gg with different charm at this time
Bp stand out cuz when everybody was doing cute they were doing girl crush
Aespa stood out cuz when everybody decided to follow the girl crush concept
They did like you said they went for the generic simple formula of girl crush that BP show was working
And aespa understood that they needed something more to stand out so they twisted the girl crush concept and added hyperpop sound and cyberpunk aesthetic, which was pretty new to kpop
And new jeans, stood out cuz they decided to go for this nostaglic 2000's vibe and it work
And notice how all these gg that decided to take a risk different from what other gg were doing ended up being the biggest groups of their generation
While groups that were more generic and simple probably did great but they are not the name that people remember
I see your point, but I don’t fully agree about Twice, BP, and NJ. I think what I mentioned earlier is what really makes them stand out. I guess we just have different views.
I disagree, there's a lot of compelling reasons to have large ggs and they've succeeded in years past. More people in the group means more individuals fans can connect with. Larger ggs offer a wide variety of personalities and makes the content fans engage with interesting when you have more than 4 or 5 or 6 people. There's also the aspect of more intricate and beautiful choreography when you have a group with many members. I could go on a whole essay of why larger groups are great, but my point still stands.
Really? Except Twice there are only some moderated successed ggs with big number (Apink for example). If you look at other top 3 ggs of each gen then all of them are <= 5.
The individual fans don't help much. Most of the times these fans are from 1 or 2 members. Individual fans should come with individual contents, which are not ultilized much these days.
TBH, if kpop ggs strictly followed the jpop models (graduation, election, individual jobs) then more members are better. But in kpop they sell the "unity" image so
Choreography problem can be fixed with back dancers.
Then there are disadvantages outweight these little benefit: expensive, harder to manage, in-fighting, more people means higher probablity for scandals, etc. That's why most ggs are small no matter which gen they are.
Got it. I think OP was talking about mainstream groups, which is why I separated being a hit group from being mainstream. The songs you mentioned are definitely hits, but they’re not on that NJ,BP,Twice kind of mainstream level that dominates both internationally and in SK at the same time. I think kpop fans looking for mainstream groups not hit groups.
That's fair. I was talking more about top group.
I agree there's different levels and NJ, BP, and Twice are/were at a different level than the other groups mentioned. I feel the biggest hits that caught on with general public are the catchy and easier listening songs.
The catchy songs from the groups mentioned like Love Dive, After Like, I am, Tomboy Queencard, fate, Whiplash, Next Level, Whiplash, and Supernova all had major success because catchy and easy to sing. I think it's the usual thing needed to have a mainstream hit in any industry. I think the toughest part is repeating the success and maintaining listeners.
Are you 2 really saying IVE - the gg with most PAK in the history are not mainstream?
These groups are stronger in other markets but I won't say they are mainstream there.
This might be controversial of me to say but JYP hasnt missed with a GG ever.
Nmixx took time to catch on but they are so good at making a hit, Itzy came out of the gate with a hit and has had midsized hits since, obviously Twice speaks for themselves, as do Miss A and Wonder Girls.
If anything HYBE has the shakiest ground to stand on, next is CUBE, then SM/YG and then finally the best is JYP over time. (HYBE would do better on average, but Pledis destroyed BOTH afterschool AND pristin and Big Hit had GLAM…)
To be honest, I don’t see the next Hybe ggs being ground breaking or from the regular norm
of Hybe’s 6 member gg formula. I would love if they went against the grain and debuted larger but with a conglomerate obsessed with western validation it’ll never happen.
These groups are stronger in other markets but I won't say they are mainstream there.
Not mainstream like Taylor Swift, but more like BP, NJ, and Twice on the international stage.
Display MoreReally? Except Twice there are only some moderated successed ggs with big number (Apink for example). If you look at other top 3 ggs of each gen then all of them are <= 5.
The individual fans don't help much. Most of the times these fans are from 1 or 2 members. Individual fans should come with individual contents, which are not ultilized much these days.
TBH, if kpop ggs strictly followed the jpop models (graduation, election, individual jobs) then more members are better. But in kpop they sell the "unity" image so
Choreography problem can be fixed with back dancers.
Then there are disadvantages outweight these little benefit: expensive, harder to manage, in-fighting, more people means higher probablity for scandals, etc. That's why most ggs are small no matter which gen they are.
SNSD was the top of 2nd gen and were large
Twice were the top of 3rd gen and were large
Izone topped 4th gen while they were active and they were large.
Heck even IOI were a force when they were a group and they were 11.
To be honest, I don’t see the next Hybe ggs being ground breaking or from the regular norm
of Hybe’s 6 member gg formula. I would love if they went against the grain and debuted larger but with a conglomerate obsessed with western validation it’ll never happen.
And i think the GLAM situation may have traumatized them into being overly careful to the point that they now only trust this one single formula.
However on the flip side NewJeans and LSFM were developed in tandem and had differing numbers from the beginning and with vastly different concepts so HOPEFULLY because the only thing that shook lsfms popularity was vocal control (with choreo) theyll take a note out of that book and just do that pretty much the same with stronger voices
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