Successful girl groups with minimal impact?

The endless cycles of all subcultures are:

1. Someone did something new/different and interesting then rose to the top,

2. Everyone else followed hopping a bit of success,

3. The scene became stagnant, repetitive,

4. Someone else did something new/different and interesting then rose to the top,

5. Repeating the 2nd step.

Kpop is no different, we've seen too many cases like BP and NJs. The common argument in fanwar "group X just have number but no impact" doesn't sound right, because normally it's hard to be top of the game without came up with something new. And when people knew your formula, they'd study it extensively to apply to their own cases.

TLDR: success => everyone copying => having impact.

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That said, there are still some successful groups outside of the rule:

(What i mean about "impact" here is the long lasting one, not just short trend or big number)

- SNSD: they were successful because SM had resources and negotiation powers to make 9 member appearing on TV all the time, no other company could do the same. By the time 3rd gen emerged, TV viewership had been in decline made SNSD formula losing its effectiveness,

- aespa: got luck with the 2nd peak after that last viral hit years ago. Can't imagine too many groups having thing to learn from them,

- IVE: better than 2 groups above but still not that huge impact compared to their success. They have the benefit of 2 popular ex-izone members, few groups tried recruiting already popular celebs, still not a widespread phenomenon (yet). But I can see others follow their footstep focusing on kid audiences in near future.

- In general, top 4th gen ggs: aside NewJeans and Izone, seems like 4th gen ggs' successes don't affect kpop too much. They can come and go and nothing will change, probably because there are many other top ggs willing to take the position.

Is there anyone else missing here?

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

You have such a skewed view on impact lmao

Not skewed, just higher standard.

The comparison are for top groups, they all have multiple viral hits, being played and covered everywhere, junior idols looked up, etc.

We have to raise the standard to see the gaps between them more clearly: who came up with new concepts/formulas that everyone followed are more impactful than the one just have big numbers. These are the types of impact that change the way kpop works.

Quote from yerisvelvet

Blackpink

At least half of 4th gen were labeled as Blackpink clones.

Everyone and their mothers try to be luxury brand ambassadors because of Blackpink.

I'd say they have huge impact.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

SNSD has no business being on here.

And by the fact that you chose those specific three groups to add to the poll, I'm guessing you already have a pre-determined answer that you want people to pick.

L troll attempt.

That three specific groups are here because their peers ggs are very influential. Top ggs from 2nd and 3rd generation started or popularized a lot of practices still used today. The same can't be said to most of top 4th gen.

All of 4th generation are at least 3 years old now. We've seen the impact of 2nd and 3rd generation when they were at that age, the difference is night and day.

Quote from ISaidISaid

And the same can be said about SNSD? So your logic is flawed? Do you think that groups were not inspired by SNSD or something? half the groups say they were inspired by SNSD and then we have a group like twice one of the biggest from 3rd gen who are often seen as SNSD clones.

So somewhere your logic is breaking.

Twice or half the groups didn't shove all members everywhere on TV that early into their careers like snsd. SNSD also didn't have any specific image/concept/sound so where are the inspiration?

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Um

Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

Um, yes.

You asked why those specific 3 groups and I gave the reason.

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P/s: the current most voted group is a surprise. They actually have most potential among the candidates. Their tactic is smart and I can see future groups replicated it.

Quote from trippin

whacu mean by achieved something? the last album? that get swept by a single?

cmon

you all talking crazy about snsd, aespa and other 4th gen group, and when people did something back you mad.

be fr

It's fine to have some flop cbs.

Their biggest contributions are 1/ reopen the Japan market 2/ popularize J-line. These are huge because Japan is 2nd most important market for kpop after Korea.

Quote from nasdadwg

I hardly can understand the question

Successful groups that have not made trends? Isn't it most of them?

Single Haewon (NMIXX) have more "impact" than most gg

It's about top (3-5) groups of each generation that didn't add anything new and didn't have a lot of groups copied/inspired by them.

Basically we can remove them from history then kpop would still be the same.

Quote from autumnleaf_soshi

the fact that people so regularly bring up SNSD into the forum discussions is further strengthening the idea that SNSD is a very impactful group in Kpop history.

not many Sones are here on the forums, yet SNSD gets talked about every other day.

The problem is SNSD benefits from "repeat until it becomes the truth".

People said they are impactful here and there, but when asked about things that the group did first or made it relevant first then no one can give an answer. It's always about how many hits they have or how junior idols are fans of them, but we can say the same about like 10+ other 2nd/3rd gen groups. Sometime people even give wrong credits like paving the way for girl groups, girl groups textbook.

Anyway, this topic is not about SNSD, I presented more examples from different era too.

Quote from autumnleaf_soshi

well they are the first Kpop girl group to win a Album Daesang at Golden Disk Awards in Kpop history. and is the only 2nd gen girl group that did it.

this made girl groups in general more relevant in Korea as this was a significant milestone in Kpop that influenced many Entertainment companies in Korea as a whole to shift their focus onto girl groups as there is significant profit that could be made from girl groups. the flooded TV appearances that SNSD had during the time is proof that there is profit to be made, and they truly have capitalized on that more than any other girl groups at the time.

SNSD not only demonstrated their physical album selling power but was a dominant force in the digital realm as well. SNSD still holds the girl group with the most consecutive music show wins on Music Bank with their song 'Gee', which won for 9 consecutive weeks, record has yet to be beaten till this day, 15 years and counting.

their impact on the Korean Entertainment industry was felt through many years as proven by Gallup Survey having entered Top 5 for 10 consecutive years and is the only Kpop girl group to do so till this day.

SNSD songs are still been covered on music festivals till this day.

SNSD songs are still been used on political rallies in Korea till this day, Yoon Suk Yeol impeachment as the latest example.

but with all that said SNSD is NOT the only girl group that has impacted Kpop and made it what it is. there are many impactful Kpop girl groups that can be mentioned, 2nd gen girl groups alone we have Wonder Girls, Kara, Tara, 2NE1 and the list goes on. each have their own respectable achievements and impacts that shaped the Kpop girl group scene and further diversified the Kpop genre as a whole.

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Well said.

The point here is SNSD's achievements are great but also anomaly.

The popularity came from a specific formula that only they could use because it requires right time (2nd generation, when TV was still most popular medium), right place (SM - the biggest company) and right people (it's not easy to manager 9 members back then). That's why we haven't seen any "SNSD clone".

Their most impressive achievements are still intact: the only girl groups with sales rivaled boy groups including the Disk Daesang, top 5 Gallup for 10 consecutive years. SNSD proved they could do this and that. But the status quo remain: boy groups sale 2x to 3x more than girl groups, girl groups are still popular with the GP like before SNSD. In the grand scheme of things, kpop pre and post-SNSD are the same.

But for some groups, we can't use exact arguments above. Those groups actually made contributions deep integrated into the industry. In SNSD's era there are Wonder Girls and 2NE1, kpop without them would be very different from today. It's the type of impact that SNSD and most 4th generation ggs are lacking of.

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this made girl groups in general more relevant in Korea as this was a significant milestone in Kpop that influenced many Entertainment companies in Korea as a whole to shift their focus onto girl groups as there is significant profit that could be made from girl groups. the flooded TV appearances that SNSD had during the time is proof that there is profit to be made, and they truly have capitalized on that more than any other girl groups at the time

I have to disagree.

SNSD received the Disk Daesang in 2011 for their 2010 album, but the girl groups bomb happened since 2009, most significant groups debuted around 2009 to 2010. Plans must be made at least 1 to 2 years prior.

If there was any group deserved the credit for shifting focus onto girl groups in that period, it should be Wonder Girls.

It should be noted that girl groups appearances on TV was nothing new, 1st generation did that too. The different SNSD is a group dedicated to that since day 0, and they had 9 members to populate all channels, there was a joke that you couldn't watch TV without seeing one SNSD member for a week.