Seeing the strong debuts by KiiiKiii and Hearts2Hearts, it's kind of crazy that...

Doesn't it have in big part to do with YG's reputation being low like never before? Unlike SM and Starship

And then I'd also say it in part is because the song itself is not great

YG groups have kinda tanked (save for of course bp) since the whole burning sun incident back in like 2019.

even treasure underperformed greatly in korea for a yg boy group. but i think baby monster’s saving grace is that they’re a girl group and the next one after bp.

and although their start wasn’t good, they did perform better in korea with sheesh and especially drip. i think they’ll continue to rise more this year as well.

I'd try and say it was a bad song that did them in, but then I listen to the generic slop that KK and H2H threw out and realise that the song quality argument holds no water.

I thought the same thing too as I saw H2h and Kiiikiii doing well. Perhaps it's a combination of timing, YG's bad standing with the public, bad song, Ahyeon stuff, and just an overall lack of interest/desire for a new YG group. Dunno.

I agree with you though, given what we have seen with these recent debuts, it's even more surprising now than it was then.

I was gonna say something but I'm not tryna be labeled as "toxic."

Quote from Yama-Chan

You would think the hype alone would carry them into the top 100 at least, but they never even left the basement. Hell, they were subterranean practically. Just hard to rationalize it even with the benefit of hindsight.

It definitely was surprisingly bad.. and yeah the charting was surprisingly bad too

But they got some hype back with Sheesh and now Drip so good for them

The way multi stan gaslights into thinking drip is a hit

my favs gg got dragged for less because they charted in the top 10 and instead of topping melon.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

I was gonna say something but I'm not tryna be labeled as "toxic."

Come on friend.

Was what you wanted to say more toxic than what I said?

Quote from killthisfenty

The way multi stan gaslights into thinking drip is a hit

my favs gg got dragged for less because they charted in the top 10 and instead of topping melon.

I've gaslighted myself into believing BABYMONSTER is truly a top 5 group

Quote from CaraFIMIE

I was gonna say something but I'm not tryna be labeled as "toxic."

pipe up

I know people like to talk about YGE ggs, but Treasure flop is worse imo when we use math and see that despite Winner and iKon not being top groups, they debuted with hits and had several hits through their careers like YGE had 3 bgs known and just 2 ggs so Baemon debut was disappointing (chart wise), but don't worry, Treasure who had a survival show did worse and differently from them Baemon is actually charting decently with good Spotify numbers, views, etc, the growth is there.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

Come on friend.

Was what you wanted to say more toxic than what I said?

Quote from Tru-Multistan

pipe up

Depends how you look at it.

i was gonna say, IVE and AESPA carried them. But to put it nicely and clearly:

KiiiKiii and Hearts2Hearts both had predecessors with recent hits (AESPA and IVE) that could help elevate them out of nugudom, even a little bit (at least until they gained their own reputation).

And when people like what they see, they would normally check out something similar so, my guess is people would want to explore the sister groups which could explain why they both achieved earlier success than BABYMONSTER that debuted during a time where BP was no longer associated with YGE. And I'm sure I don't need to explain why most blinks would want nothing to do with YGE, if they could help it.

I myself was surprised that H2H song reached top 30 on Melon daily😅

Quote from Yama-Chan

Yeah that argument doesn't work

2NE1 had a smash hit album with Crush, still one of the most streamed girl group albums in MelOn history, and then suddenly disbanded in 2014.

BLACKPINK didn't debut until 2016, and they debuted with a Perfect All-Kill.

BABYMONSTER had the biggest hype train YG could construct, with a whole "survival" competition show to amplify the noise and excitement around the group. Yet still, they made zero noise in Korea when the debut actually happened.

Like Multi said, it's just bizarre when you consider the pedigree of YG GGs AND look at how all the other 5th Gen debuts have gone, specifically KK and H2H.

Let me put it like this.

If we were taking bets on how these groups would chart on debut, absolutely NOBODY would expect BABYMONSTER to perform the worst and definitely not by such a huge margin.

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You're not even understanding my point.

Quote from Yama-Chan

I don't know a single Treasure song, but I knew Rhythm-ta and Empty, so you have a point

Yeah, at least with Baemon they are charting good each cb and having some longevity, but with Treasure even idk their recent songs.

But iKon and Winner digital power was actually underestimated by kpop fans. Overall their numbers were big.

I completely agree! YG gg always debut with a hit/smash hit so it was completely surprising BM debut was a flop at least in Korea! but I do love ‘organic’ growth and BM has been steadily rising each comeback

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Depends how you look at it.

i was gonna say, IVE and AESPA carried them. But to put it nicely and clearly:

KiiiKiii and Hearts2Hearts both had predecessors with recent hits (AESPA and IVE) that could help elevate them out of nugudom, even a little bit (at least until they gained their own reputation).

And when people like what they see, they would normally check out something similar so, my guess is people would want to explore the sister groups which could explain why they both achieved earlier success than BABYMONSTER that debuted during a time where BP was no longer associated with YGE. And I'm sure I don't need to explain why most blinks would want nothing to do with YGE, if they could help it.

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Actually yge strong "selling" point was also yge family that included BB, 2ne1, Winner, iKon, Lee hi, akmu, Psy, Se7en and some others acts, yge recognition was so big in the early 2010~ that even their dancers were famous in the kpop community, but before BP debut things went strange and yge distanced BP from this supposed yge family and yge stans started disappearing. 2019 was the biggest bomb a company could get in that time and yge was already a BP versus yge groups situation. Blinks started being the majority as seen by numbers, etc and they weren't turning into yge stans bc of yge own incompetence with giving little content to BP, in the end yge glory came back just a little now with the whole BB reunion and BP solo releases which is funny when none happened under yge.

Yge should've pushed the company stans agenda, that was advantageous for their groups. But they did everything wrong with BP so blinks didn't really support the newest acts like they could and it's comprehensive...
So lack of company stans and a lot of scandals affected the new gen acts.